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Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions
huskydave #411583 04/21/15 09:09 PM
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it doubleposted on me, oh well on the tripower they sound ok for the money but they are not great sounding imho. The Emotiva stuff is built with cheap parts and they don't sound great imo. I would rather buy a used bryston amp than a new Emotiva for the same money.

Last edited by huskydave; 04/21/15 09:44 PM.
Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions
cowskeleton #411586 04/21/15 10:20 PM
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"Thanks for the heads up on that Sansui. from the looks of it, a legend! Definitely doable price wise too.
And regarding the Bryston, if I drop tonnes of money on an amp, should I just get a McIntosh?

They are both great choices here is my thinking, You can pick up a 10 year old used Bryston amp that retailed for 5000 or so for 800-1500 depending on model etc.. with 10 years of warranty on it still as long as the owner has the original receipt. I always say look for a deal, Macintosh Bryston Krell Parasound Axiom all make great amps but for $50-$400ish you cant beat the old Sansui amps, I had a au317 and it was awesome it was rated at 50 watts per side but put out 100w per channel easily. I got it at a hockshop for $80.00 I keep buying them and trading them or reselling them because they are bargans.

Last edited by huskydave; 04/21/15 10:30 PM.
Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions
cowskeleton #411587 04/21/15 10:48 PM
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OK, hold up here.

Are you seriously considering buying an amp that costs 1-2-3-4x the price of the speakers you're using with it? We're talking a tiny fraction of an improvement at best, particularly with M2s. If you were driving big towers, like M80s or M100s or something at high volumes, well, then, sure. But M2s? They're bookshelves. Best suited to not so high a volume. Any improvement you see from changing the amp is so marginal that it cannot possibly be worth the cost.

Here's my philosophy on amps:

1. High end, well engineered (ie, engineered to amplify evenly across the spectrum) amps will sound the same at the same volume level, assuming the capabilities of the amp are not being exceeded at that volume level (ie, the amp is not clipping)

2. Amps that are engineered to sound different (ie, NOT flat across the spectrum), will probably sound at least somewhat different. Tube amps fall firmly into this category, unless they're massive and designed specifically to be flat. Then you might as well buy solid state.

3. The amp is really not the place you want to be modifying the sound! If you want a tube sound, it seems likely to me that you'll get more tube sound for the buck from a tube pre-amp. That way, the coloration is amplified.

4. Marshall amps sound great because they are being overdriven. Do you want to be overdriving your amp? Or do you just want to let the musician do it for you?


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions
cowskeleton #411588 04/21/15 11:55 PM
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I guess all the audio magazines that came out were all wrong about the au 717 and all the people that rave about it including me.

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions
cowskeleton #411589 04/22/15 12:05 AM
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Can you borrow one to try it out before you drop some coin? I am in the used monster amps kick ass camp. grin

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions
huskydave #411590 04/22/15 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: huskydave
I guess all the audio magazines that came out were all wrong about the au 717 and all the people that rave about it including me.

I don't think that's what Ken is saying :

Quote:
1. High end, well engineered (ie, engineered to amplify evenly across the spectrum) amps will sound the same at the same volume level...

The au 717 was arguably "high end" and "well engineered" at a time when most integrated amps were not.

Quote:
..., assuming the capabilities of the amp are not being exceeded at that volume level (ie, the amp is not clipping)

I haven't seen formal tests to support this, but my impression from reviews is that the au 717 was quite "overbuilt" for its specs, so it's probably fair to say that it's capabilities were comparable to more powerful amps at the time.

This is just my impression from when I was learning about vintage Sansui components myself, but there do seem to be solid reasons why people like them (the appearance/styling/build quality seems really nice too). That said, I don't believe any of this is in conflict with the points that Ken made, particularly the one about "exceeding the capabilities" of the amp.

Last edited by bridgman; 04/22/15 04:12 AM.

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Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions
cowskeleton #411591 04/22/15 04:22 AM
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Thanks for the replies! I realize that a high end amp is unnecessary right now and the wrong thing to throw lots of money at - speakers first, then everything else. I am just dreaming of a day when the big expensive amp is driving even bigger, even more expensive speakers!

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions
cowskeleton #411592 04/22/15 04:24 AM
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I think I may be experiencing the first stages of an obsession!

Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions
huskydave #411596 04/22/15 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: huskydave
The Emotiva stuff is built with cheap parts and they don't sound great imo. I would rather buy a used bryston amp than a new Emotiva for the same money.


This post is looking like the Axiom from AVS.

Emotiva has gone through several generations of amps even over the past year. I spent some time talking with the owner of Parts Connection who was the founder of Sonic Fronteer until they went belly up.

The issue that many had with Emotiva was they were under powered for the design that they have. If you listen to their amps at low enough levels then they sounded perfectly fine. But nobody buys a 200watt amp to listen at 10watt output. The XPA amps have 60,000uF storage capacitance, that is woefully under speced for the output they give. But move into the XPR line and they doubles if not tripped the power supply and capacitance to match the levels that are required to work and bring them up to the same levels at everyone else in the market. But in doing so the cost of their amps jumped up to be now very close to everyone elses.


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Re: Wow! New axiom owner here! have some questions
cowskeleton #411621 04/22/15 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: cowskeleton
I think I may be experiencing the first stages of an obsession!

Nope. You have a plan, so your well through the second stage of an obsession. smile


Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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