After weeks of research and reading the forums, I have decided purchase an Axiom system, the question is, which one. I am wanting to stay around $600 so I am looking in the FO. My two choices are, the M3's with the EP 125 ($630) or the M50's ($630). They will only be used for music (no HT). My room is about 12x15x10h = 1800cf. I am using an Adcom GTP400 preamp and Yamaha m35 poweramp and HK 8380 cd. Looking forward to reading your thoughts. Thanks.

I'm sure some of the M50 posse will jump in here, I heard they are looking for new pledges.

I'm thinking for Music only, I would go with the 50's, they get down to 39hz +/- 3dB which is just a little higher than the 60's. Now I've heard they are a little more laid back than the 60's or 80's, but are very well liked and have a great sound.

Randy

Wha? Wazzat? Where am I?

Having heard both the 50s and the 3s, I'm not certain which I would pick. I love my 50s, but 3s are pretty darn impressive.

I knew you would be right behind me, ha ha

I guess if he was going to use it for some HT, I might tend to say also get a sub. It is a tuff call, for music I would start with the 50's, and save for a sub down the road. Or even better, try to squeeze a little more money out of your wallet, and get some 60's, they are totally awesome dude... and the bass is killer.....

Another vote for the 50s. They will make a great music system now and can serve as the basis for a big-ass (well, medium-ass) home theater system in the future.

Yeah, I'd edge towards the 50s simply because of the sub. That said, I've never heard the EP125, but if you get one now, you may find it hard to upgrade later. I know I find it hard to upgrade from my sub...

Hi Mark! and welcome!

Looking at your room size, it looks as though you can go either way with your purchase!

The only real concern that may exist is the "upgraditisbug".

When the usual "Axiom" fan shows up here, it's usually because he or she is attracted to a more accurate sound...by a margin of about ten to one!

When the words "cost" or "buget" or whatever similar comment is voiced, and when tied to M3s or M50s; it leads one to believe that perhaps said M3s or M50s are not the very first choice!!

Just hate to see someone "settle" for something, when for a few weeks more time and wee a bit of creative bugeting, they can get something they really want in the first place! And will be satisfied with their purchase.

If you are familiar with the differences between the M3s and M22s, and the M50s and the M60s, and feel that the somewhat more restrained character of the M3/M50 is what you desire rather than the more accurate presentation of the M22/M60, then great!

But if you're more preoccupied with dollars rather than sound at the moment.....!

......by the way....I have both M3s and M50s in the same system, by choice, and couldn't be happier!!
Rich.

For the record, I think M3s are great. I still miss the ones I had (traded up for M40s). The main reason I am recommending 50s is that the difference between an EP125-priced sub and a somewhat bigger sub is huge.

Bottom line is that IMO you will get better overall performance out of M50s than you will out of M3s plus EP125 *or* a similar sub from anyone else. If you were thinking about M3s and a big-ass sub that would be a different story and I might vote for the sub/M3 system. I ran M2s and a big SVS sub for a while and that was remarkably effective for both movies and music. Having said that, I would still take my M60s with no sub over M2 plus SVS for a pure music system -- but for movies the M2/M3 plus a big sub is hard to beat in a smaller room.

Before I stupidly parted with my M60s, I had them in a 14' square bedroom. In that small space, the bass was absolutely fantastic. They didn't go super low in the larger HT room, but upstairs was a different story.
I'm guessing the M50s would also be pretty deep and rich in that small space the orig poster described.

OTOH, M3s (while likely requiring a sub for the deep bass) are very versatile and will always find use later on should he upgrade.

You can't have too many bookshelf speakers laying around, can you? But what to do with a house full of towers?

Interesting... I would argue the other way, that a room full of towers makes a really nice HT system but I always end up with a couple of bookshelf speakers sitting idle somewhere...

Absolutely agree guys: in that size room, a pair of M50s would do a fine job even without a small sub!

Also agree that a room full of floorstanders would make for great surround music, and a darn good HT as well! And would free up a pair of my surround M3s for my diningroom system to replace the Brand "X" speakers currently residing there!

Talk about a "Win-Win" situation!!

Good morning everyone, and thanks for all the input.

When I first started looking I was sold on the M3's. I then started reading the forums and decided I wanted a sub also. It's not that I feel I'm settling for the M3's, but that I am settling for the 125 or the M50's.

Noe lets look at a second set of systems. If I could squeeze a little more money for speakers, a set of M60's or the M3's with EP350. M60's at $900 (can't wait 12 weeks for FO, $90 just not worth the wait) or the M3's with the EP350 ($855).

Ok now! That's a good set of choices!!

That IS a hard decision! In that size room either the M60s or M3s with a 350 would work great if you could wring a few more bucks from your wallet!!

The real question then, is what type of sound do you prefer?

The M3s AND the M60s are both extreemly musical speakers, but they do sound a bit different!!

Tough decision!!
Rich.

I just want to add two points. You mentioned music only.
I bought a pair of 60's for music only. I had them set up in a similar sized room as yours. The speakers sounded absolutely great. Plenty of bass unless you are an absolute bass nut. I was worried because I have a very nice set up in my car; with a high end sub woofer and I thought I might miss the extra thump. I don't really miss it as much as I thought. Actually, I'm not sure I miss it all. The verdict is still out. I might add one later but I do not feel any urgency to do so.

The next point I would want to make is again related to your comment of music only. If that is your goal it is important to go for the best sub you can get. A lot of subs will just thump and add sloppy, slow inaccurate lf's. You have to spend some dollars for tight, accurate, musical bass.

So if it were me, I personally would go for the 60's (I prefer the accuracy) and then if you need more bass add a goood sql sub later. If I was going for HT I would certainly consider some of the options posted above. Keep in mind I have a pair of M3's in my office and I love the sound in there as well. I went with the 3's in there because I had no desire to add a sub in the computer room and I felt that the 50's were out because I wanted to use bookshelf design.
I have been very happy with the results. In both systems
All this, of course, is just IMHO
oz

I forgot to welcome you to the group and I also should mention that I ordered my 3's from the factory outlet and I didn't wait any where near the posted time. Of course, I may have been lucky and your mileage may vary.
oz

LOL, first it was M3s and a little sub, then M60s, then M3s and a EP350. By the end of the thread it will be M80s and an EP600.

I think the EP350, or any similar big sub is likely unnecessary in that smallish room for music only. It will also eat a huge chunk of your budget. I'd go for the best floorstanders I could afford.

bigwill2 brings up a good point.

The EP350 is a great sub; a little pricy perhaps, and certainly overkill in the size room in question.(certainly a lot of fun if there are no close neighbors, however)

There was a review of the M3s with the EP175 a few years back that was quite positive. Although there are a number of other subs available at similar prices that may fit the bill too, and help keep the buget under control.

Going with the M60s is a sure way of getting a great start on a future system as well!

Ain't nothin' simple?!!
Rich.

I was looking at the 175 with the M3's as well, however, I'm don't know if I want to take up the extra space with a sub. The m3's on a stand will use about the same space as the m50 / M60 so I'm now thinking that is the way to go.

Is there anyone who bought the 50's and didn't like them or wished they had bought the 60's? These will be in my living room and as I said earlier, music only. And, don't throw rocks, but I'm upgrading from a set of Bose AM5's that are about 16 years old and the cones/surrounds are shot.

There was a "one line review" on the Axiom site from someone who "liked their M50s so much they are buying M60s" (don't know any details) but other than that I believe all of the M50 owners on the board are (a) very happy with them, (b) irritatingly smug that they may have purchased the most "balanced" speakers Axiom makes, and (c) feeling just the tiniest bit sensitive and inadequate relative to M60 and M80 owners, which IMO (having owned M3s, M40s and M60s) they should not.

I have only listened to M50s briefly (up at the Axiom factory) but the difference between M50 and M60 was very small, much like the difference between M2 and M3 or even (other than the bass) M3 and M60.

From subsequent posts, the M50 seems to sound even more like the M60 than the M3 did, so the difference is going to be pretty small.

I did tons of studying prior to purchasing a set of M50s!

The final choice between them and the M60s was traumatic to say the least!!

The reason I bought the M50s was due to a strong and ongoing love affair with the M3s that I had bought about four years ago. My understanding was that the 50s and 3s sounded near identical through the mids and highs, but that the bass was, of course, much stronger through the M50s!!

Correct assumption!!

They blend in my system as though they were designed that way!! Not a one of them is capable of uttering an unpleasant sound unless it was Planned that way in the recording!!

The numbers are in!! Almost half of all college students AND graduates today believe in ghosts and vampires and astrology and a whole litany of spooks and goblins!!

Incredible!!

Why is this, and who cares?!!

Brainwashing, Dudes and Dudettes!! There is so much media representation of this stuff floating around that folks almost CAN'T help but pick up on it and start to believe in it!!

And IF an M50 owner isn't eternally vigilant, the vast preponderance of M60 M80 discussion going on around here can become very compelling indeed!

I have tried to be sensitive to the Axiom thrust in the marketplace where I perceve the aim is toward the more accurate and foreward side of neutral, and try not to muck up the works with a lot of talk about the "other side" where my system resides.

A lonely 10%



The M3s were the darling of the Axiom set when I "discovered" Axiom in the year double ought, and I went right along with it, as I was looking for a very neutral speaker that was neither too warm, nor, more importantly, to me, too cool.

Going back to about 63, when I first started paying attention, I always gravitated to the warmer of the two speakers that I came down to in the final choice.

But,....that's just ME, the average Axiom buyer and fan appears to slide the other way just a bit. Those are the folks that Axiom are catering to and that's just great and how it should be!!

The M3 still has a good reputation as a stand alone bookshelf that is very musical and highly valued even by the tube set! I suspect that it may have a relatively secure future!!

Axiom history

Until reciently, the M3 had two "Bigger brothers" The M40 and the M50. The M40 was discontinued due to a lack of sales and was given a warm and loving funeral with lots of folks giving glowing eulogies.

The poor M50 hasen't as many fans, but it seems to be soldiering on as the sole M3 close relative.

Personally, I believe it's a better speaker than what it is felt to be by most, but it isn't the super accurate take-no-prisoners tell-it-like-it-is warrior that the M60/M80s are either!

The M3 and M50 are slightly more relaxed in their presentation; they just don't pick up on the tape splice in the recording master, and draw it to your attention!! A badly mastered CD will still sound bad on the M50s, just not as unlistenable as it is through the M60 and M80s

Is the M50 "as good as" the M3?

I dunno!

We moved into a larger home and needed to buy floorstanders to compensate.

The M3s didn't really do the job in this larger room and I didn't find them "as good" here as in the old house. So I can't say for sure how the M50s actually compare. But the M50s blend perfectly with the M3s in my current set-up of M3s for center and surrounds, and the M50s for mains.

I also run my system EQed to the warmer side for personel preferences. And have all my speakers crossed at 60hz; so I don't fit the Axiom mold in the least!!

Sometimes I think I should have gotten M60s; but then I realize that I would have probably had to EQ them even more than I do now to make them sound more like what I currently have

Am I a good spokesperson for Axiom?

Uh,...no,..I guess not

Am I happy with the system I've put together with Axiom speakers?

You Bet!!
Rich.

Nice write-up, Rich. You're right, the hardest part is choosing which Axiom speaker to get. Bottom line--you can't really go wrong.

I love the fact that Axiom still offers the M50s. I haven't heard them--I was lucky enought to snag one of the M40s--but I like that the M50s offer a slightly different sound then the M60s and M80s. People have different tastes and a more expensive speaker doesn't always qualify as the "better" speaker.

The one thing I feel really, really,..uh,..really bad about, Sean; was not taking the chance a few years ago to audition all three of the "competing" floorstanders at the same time in my home!! I'd have loved to have the M40, M50 and M60s there to line up next to my M3s!

But I missed my chance!

I'm guessin' that, from warmest to coolest, that the M40 would have been the warmest and most "Tube" like, with the M3, as I found in my home; just about neutral, with the performers almost exactly at the speaker plane. And then the M50s I notice to be just a tad more foreward from the M3s and a bit closer to my understanding of the M60s; moving a little more foreward and cooler yet.

You're right though! It's great to have a choice within the Axiom framework of similar sounds! No lack of family resemblence here! Ya can't go wrong at that

And John is also correct with his A, B, and C "feelings" anallogy! Varying degrees of all three at different times and differing intensities!

It's been(and IS!) a fun trip!
Rich.

Mark, welcome. Usually my preference is bookshelves plus sub, but your GTP400 is a basic two-channel pre-amp with no provision for bass management. If you stay with it you won't be able to take best advantage of a bookshelf/sub combo without additional processing to crossover at e.g. 80Hz; the bookshelves would run full-range. So, the better move in my view would be to go with the M60s if the budget can be stretched or the M50s if not. With your 15' longest room dimension, room gain beginning at about 38Hz will give a theoretical 12dB per octave bass boost, which should result in good bass down into the mid 20s. This should be very good with nearly all music(pipe organ 16 Hz pedal excepted)although not as impressive with explosions and other LFE in movies as a good sub would be.

Long-range, even for an all-music setup, you might consider multi-channel equipment which can process(e.g. DPLII, Logic 7)two-channel source material and send surround ambience to surround speakers such as the QSs, where it belongs, with a resulting increase in realism.

Rich, that would have been a fun comparison--having three floorstanders. I have to say, the M40s do exhibit a "tube" like sound, and subsequently I prefer driving them with a solid-state amp.

Someday I may move on to different speakers, but I think I'm going to hang on to the M40s. After all, they are a collector's item now!

Ya know Sean, when I used the term "Tube like" in desribing what I thought the M40s may be like, it was actually meant to be a supreme complement!!

Really!!

I currently have a diningroom system with a solid state amp driving some brand "X" speakers that, unfortunately, is my primary "tunes" room. And as my main music site, my final vision for it is a pair of M3s driven by tubes, or perhaps a Sonic T-Amp, and(maybe)accompanied by a smaller musical sub.

The dream that "went away" was the same room with a pair of M40s, all on their lonesome, perhaps driven by the older Onkyo that I'm currently using now.

Speaking of "collectors' items" If I'd have gotten some M40s; then I'd have a complete "matched set" of all three M3 style Axiom speakers! Yeow!!

Insert uncontrolled sobbing, right "here"
Rich.

Someday I want to try a system very similar to what you have in mind with your M3s. I'm thinking an SET amp and a small musical sub. With the right components, it could be a very sweet little system.

Thanks for all the advice. I am leaning towards the 50's and I figure I can always upgrade to the 60's within 30 days and still get the free shiping both ways. Whatever I decide, I better do it quick with the price increase on the 17th.

Just spoke with Brent and ordered a pair of the M50's. Should be at my door on Wednesday.

Congrats on the new buys.

Now it's anticipation!!!!

Ohh, the excitement of waiting!

Only thing is, I was absolutely flabbergasted my axioms came when they did. I went to the door thinking "Oh, my receiver is here" since I ordered it from a state away, and my AXIOM's where here in TWO DAYS from Canada.

Anyways, enjoy your purchase.

I know what you mean, the anticipation is killing me and its only been a couple of hours. That's why I didn't use the factory outlet, I figured the $70 savings wasn't worth the 3 week wait, it's hard enough to wait 3 days.

Post deleted by Tharkun

Ahem...I think you clicked on the wrong thread

*points Tharkun using magical portal known as a URL*

W's thread

At least, I think that was where you wanted to go. This thread is very similar to that one as it is in the "congrats for buying" stage.

Well the m50's are at my door and I'm stuck at work till 8:00 tonight. This is going to be one long day.

And probably a long night too playing with new toys!

Women will never understand the finer things in life. Case in point; Just got my M50's today and didn't get home from work till 8:30. It hasen't even been 3 hours yet and she's telling me to "TURN IT DOWN"

Oh, by the way, they're fantastic!!

It's been a couple of days now, the speakers sound great. The wife even thinks the sound "real clean". Problem is, I've bought a new integrated amp and a vintage tube amp. I'm really in trouble now.

Welcome to the dark side.

You know St_PatGuy I think I've always been on the dark side. Never much cared about video, but since I have been about 10 years old I have been into music and electronics. Didn't have money in my youth for decent equipment, but 40 years later, and the kids are grown, I do have "some" expendable income. I really enjoy good sounding music, everything from Cab Calloway to Creed and almost anything else thrown in.

The internet is a wonderful thing, two months ago I had never heard of Axiom and now I own a pair of their speakers. I guess all I'm trying to say is, I re-discovered an old passion and it's going to be a fun ride.

At least when you get older you can afford much better toys! And you're right--the internet is a wonderful resource for great things at incredible prices.

Enjoy your new speakers. I'm sure you've made the M50 posse proud. Me, I'm a member of the much more elusive M40 posse! We're out there somewhere, just not in great numbers.

Enjoy the ride, once you hop on it's hard to stop.