Anybody using Odyssey Stratos to drive Axioms?

Axiom Home Page

I found some old threads by Spiff that look promising, but was wondering if anyone is currently driving Axioms with the stratos, especially the 80's.

I've heard nothing but great things about Klaus and Odyssey amps, and the 20year transferable warranty is pretty attractive.

Thanks, Randy

Ive got a pair of Khartago Mono's with 120,000uf per channel cap upgrade and wiring upgrade. And yes, Driving my 80's they are fantastic. Im guessing that you however will want to go for the stratos mono extremes. Perhaps that will cure your itch for more power

I wish the US website was updated. I clicked on the "International" link and then Great Britain, which seems to have much more information and specs. What the heck is Khartogo?

Maybe the ATI 3000 series.

ATI

Randy, I've been using the Khartago amp for a little over a year now. It is a slightly less powerful version (2x110 W) than the Stratos in a less extravagant enclosure. Klaus has a few things he sells that aren't on his website. Best thing is to give him a call and tell him what you're looking for. He won't steer you in the wrong direction. I've made a couple of purchases with him and don't regret it. In fact, I'm expecting something else from him soon.

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I'm expecting something else from him soon.

Do tell

I'll give you a hint--it comes in a box and helps play music!

Candela perhaps? I want one of those too!

Klaus's website is pretty out of date but he does have a new one in the works. This site has most information you would need though:

http://www.odysseyaudiosg.com/

When I had talked to Klaus and asked him about the power output into 4 ohms IIRC he said about 260watts each for my mono's with the cap upgrade.

The Khartago will get pretty warm when you crank em up since they are in a smaller case with smaller heat sink, However the stratos doesnt usually get very warm at all even when cranking due to the excessivly large external heatsinks. Give Klaus a call, he is a great guy and wont try to sell you something that wont work in your system and that you wont be happy with. Usually the evening or nighttime Indy time is the best time to call him.

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Candela perhaps?

Nope.

You are right about the heat of the Khartago, although I haven't really cranked mine that much. What I do like is that I feel comfortable that they will be able to drive pretty much anything I throw at them (within reason). I'd like to convert mine to monos, but can't justify the extra expenditure. Yet.

Looking at the above website, I'm trying to determine which model would be best for the 80's? What does going with the higher memory options resolve, I see the Stratos Extreme has 180,000. I don't see any specs for 4 ohm speakers either.

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What does going with the higher memory options resolve, I see the Stratos Extreme has 180,000.

Randy, puh-lease, bigger numbers are always better!

Really, I don't know what benefit the higher numbers have.

Capacitors are energy reservoirs that store the necessary power your amplifier will need to punch those big bass notes while limiting clipping. They store power during intervals when it is not required, which is most of the time, and release it when a short term transient demand exceeds what is available from the amplifier's power supply.

The capacitance is a secondary concern. Look at power, distortion and current capability (impedance). What are you thinking? Powering the M80s and VP150 from the Stratos and all else from the Denon? The mono extreme should be able to pump 450WRMS into the M80. Check with Odyssey. A class A/AB design means low distortion, relatively simple electronics but only about 70% efficient at best. It should sound very nice!

Give Klaus a call

Trust me. You'll be glad you did.

Oh yeah, and have your credit card handy.

seriously though, more capacitance gives you more current capability. Go over to the Odyssey forum on audiocircle and read up on all you want to know. I believe the Stratos mono extremes also come with dual plitron transformers. We're talking some serious muscle here

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=10.0

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Capacitors are energy reservoirs that store the necessary power your amplifier will need to punch those big bass notes while limiting clipping. They store power during intervals when it is not required, which is most of the time, and release it when a short term transient demand exceeds what is available from the amplifier's power supply.

The capacitance is a secondary concern. Look at power, distortion and current capability (impedance). What are you thinking? Powering the M80s and VP150 from the Stratos and all else from the Denon? The mono extreme should be able to pump 450WRMS into the M80. Check with Odyssey. A class A/AB design means low distortion, relatively simple electronics but only about 70% efficient at best. It should sound very nice!

That makes sense. Thanks Mojo!

Man, and I swore I'd given up on learning as soon as I got done with college. Apparently, I have some rogue brain cells that aren't giving up the ghost.

Brandon, with your Odyssey's can you give me an idea of the levels you can achieve with your 80's. I'm not sure how big your room is, or how loud you have turned them up. As you know my issues with the Emotiva shutting down at 100dB's from 12ft away, and the Emotiva is rated to have more power than the Odyssey?

Of course, Emotiva says my RS meter is not a reliable tool for SPL, and is good only for basic setup/calibration.

Haloeb, thats some real nice looking setup you have, would love to have a listen to that gear, very nice job!!

Chris

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As you know my issues with the Emotiva shutting down at 100dB's from 12ft away

Randy, I need to say this again. We don't really know if it was 100dB or 120dB. The Radio Shack meter isn't that accurate in the higher dB ranges.

Well it even appears in Gene's article about the MPS-1 that the soft clipping limiter was introducing itself prematurely. So your saying for easy listening type music with no dynamics, when the meter is reading say 95-100dB's it is not accurate? Why on earth does it have selectors to well beyond 120dB's. Now the reading I've done says it is good for 5-6dB jumps, that in reality are like 10-15dB's.

It is pretty bad the these efficient 80's that use 1 watt to achieve 95dB at 1 meter can't be pushed very far then. Maybe I should have kept my 60's, never had this problem.

We are just sitting by the sidelines waiting for you to get a class A/B amp and tell us if it works.

The 30 day return on any of the suggested (Odessey, Outlaw, ATI, Rotel, etc) amps would let you test and tell "us" what we are all waiting to hear. That you have solved the problem. We love to spend your money for our knowledge.

Just had a wonderful visit with Klaus, learned a history of the Heritage of the Germany Symphonic line going back 20 years, and that the guts in the Odyssey amps are truely remarkable, not basic electronics. I'll keep you all posted.

He actually is pretty familiar with the 80's, they have 20+ customers driving 80's with different variations of their amps. Its all about current baaaaaby.

Hey Brandon, you got your ears on? Did you go with the basic Khartaga mono package as shown on the Singapore or Breat Britain websites? How long ago did you get yours?

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Just had a wonderful visit with Klaus, learned a history of the Heritage of the Germany Symphonic line going back 20 years, and that the guts in the Odyssey amps are truely remarkable, not basic electronics.

Randy,

The electronics of a class A/AB are quite basic relative to a pulse-width modulated amp (what some call a digital amp) like the upcoming Axiom. Basic however does not mean poor quality.

I wonder how much power one can drive into the M80s before reaching SPL saturation. Or maybe we don't want to know

Mo, Alan has reported several times that Axiom has tested the M80s with up to 1200 watts for an extended period of time. There wasn't a detailed description given and most likely the primary interest was that the M80s suffered no permanent damage. The distortion(from the speakers, not the amplifiers)may have been extremely high at those levels, and nobody would operate their system in rational home listening in that way, but it illustrates the sturdiness of the M80s.

In a recent discussion I had with axiom, I was told the 80's were subjected to 24hr/day for 2weeks straight at 700watts with 1100 watt peaks. This was during testing of the new amp.

John & Randy,

I don't doubt the robustness for a single minute. But at what point does sinking more power into a speaker result in more heat loss than SPL gain? If you were to plot the relationship of SPL vs. input power, where would the knee of the curve be? Do you see where I am heading?

BTW, I am fascinated by the thirst for more power on these forums

. It's something I'm trying to wrap my head around. I have 4,000 very live cubic feet and sit 8 feet away from my M80s. When I am listening to music, if I put more than a few watts into the M80s, I start to lose the imaging (not the center but rather left and right of centre) and I suppose this is due to reflections. And frankly, my ears can't take more than a few watts for a half hour listening session. I listen to music with less than a watt per side giving me 89W of headroom on the amp!

Have you tried toeing-out your 80's.

You know me by now. Of course I did

. My M80s sounded like my neighbor's Boses

Sure, Mo, I see your point. As I said, inputting that much power doesn't have any practical application for home audio. Clean amp power is cheap and plentiful these days and it isn't necessary to go very far into three digit price territory to get audibly flawless transparent amplification from any competently designed receiver. This is within their designed power limits of course, but the typical limits are more than adequate for nearly all home setups at safe listening levels.

Sorry I hadnt responded earlier. Didnt have time to type up a post this morning before work and its been a longer day than usual.

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Brandon, with your Odyssey's can you give me an idea of the levels you can achieve with your 80's. I'm not sure how big your room is, or how loud you have turned them up. As you know my issues with the Emotiva shutting down at 100dB's from 12ft away, and the Emotiva is rated to have more power than the Odyssey?

Of course, Emotiva says my RS meter is not a reliable tool for SPL, and is good only for basic setup/calibration.

My room is about 4,700 cubic feet. I did a short volume test this morning using my RS analog SPL meter playing some tracks on Santana's "Supernatural" cd. I can easilt get 105db average on the slow response from 10-12' away. I didnt turn it up even louder because i simply didnt really want to loose my hearing quite that early in the morning. Im confident I could play at those levels all day. Not that I would ever want to mind you. Like i had said in your other emotiva post I was getting 30v peaks on music and that was LOUD. Not to mention i could feel puffs of air coming out of the ports from 2 feet away

As im sure Klaus has told you he believes more in current than watts.

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Haloeb, thats some real nice looking setup you have, would love to have a listen to that gear, very nice job!!

Chris

Thank you!

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Hey Brandon, you got your ears on? Did you go with the basic Khartaga mono package as shown on the Singapore or Breat Britain websites? How long ago did you get yours?

What Ive got isint really the basic Khartago. Mine have the cap upgrade which brings them to 120,000 each. For a total of 240,000uf. Its also got the groenberg internal wiring and i believe some upgraded resistors or capacitors on the board itself. I got mine last october. To be honest with you im not 100% sure what exactly they have. Klaus just said what I was getting would be good so i trust him! He delivered! Mine do however have the older green circuit boards in them. Yours will have the newer red boards which I believe are slightly better. Klaus's products really deliver an outstanding price-performance ratio. All the transistors are hand matched. Each amp is biased for your system and input voltage. And heck even the cool custom nameplate on the back.

After doing some more stress testing tonight (gosh your going to have me blow something up trying to find the limits) I am starting to think the Stratos is better suited for you because your not going to be happy until you can kill small animals with SPL levels and I just dont think the Khartago case and heatsinks can get rid of the heat fast enough for the kind of abuse your dreaming of dishing out. I have not been able to shut mine down, Im not sure if they even have any thermal protection or not, But they were getting pretty hot. to the point of not being able to hold my hand in certain areas for more than a few seconds. (This is playing the pirates of the carribean soundtrack) Actually I think I might have to buy a couple new woofers at some point because a couple of times they were rattling/buzzing kinda bad. But ummmmmm... It also felt like I was in the theater room with the Ep600 too. Poor little 6.5inch woofers.

I am extremely pleased with my Khartago's but i dont listen to music at 100-105 db's from 12 feet away. For that purpose I would have chosen the Stratos mono extreme's or even something MORE powerfull, Can you say Mcintosh Mc2KW or perhaps Symphonic Line Kraft 400 mono's! (520lbs EACH, IIRC) Klaus knows his products better than anyone else, I dont know where the limits are on these amps because Im not brave enough (stupid enough?) to find them. You can tell him that I got them too hot to touch for any amount of time and I didnt want to go any further driving the 80's at levels im assuming you also want to achieve and see what he reccomends, Perhaps they were just starting getting warmed up

They are powerfull but do have their limits obviously.

EDIT: I'm going to give Klaus a call in the next day or two because reading on the Audiocircle forum i dont think they are supposed to be getting this hot. I'll Keep you updated!

Thanks Brandon,

I was supposed to call Klaus last night late, but didn't get around to it, two kids and all really keep me busy.

It will be interesting to see what he tells you. For my budget it sounds like either the Stratos Extreme Stereo, or Khartago mono's with a few upgrades, sounds similar to what your describing. Maybe when I talk to him I'll remind him my room is double your size. I just want to make sure if I take this route I don't take the wrong option.

Randy

Geez... we just had a baby, we just bought a car, our cat just had expensive surgery, and I'm still feeling like calling Klaus! Yeesh...

And all you got was this lousy t-shirt?

"Odyssey KS Special" on order, should have it next week.

Klaus is building me a Stratos Mono in Khartago cases. Brandon, I talked about your heat concern and he said some of the latest components and the newer board have addressed this issue, as well as he will be adjusting the Bias to account for my 122.9 home voltage. Should have it next week before he goes to Germany for a visit.

Dang, how'd you get such a quick turnaround on that? I'm jealous.

Hope the new amp works out well for you, Randy. Congrats on the new purchase.

He said he wanted to get it done before he left to Germany for a few weeks, plus I'm sure the extra change in his pocket helped.

After talking to him I see why he gets great feedback. He is a no nonsense, down to earth, very personable person. I'm excited to give them a shot!

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He is a no nonsense, down to earth, very personable person. I'm excited to give them a shot!

Agreed. He makes it very easy to spend money!

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He is a no nonsense, down to earth, very personable person. I'm excited to give them a shot!

Agreed. He makes it very easy to spend money!

Almost... Too easy... The good thing is though, that you never regret it.