Hello! I am in the process of upgrading our home theater system. We just got a Panasonic TH-50PZ800U and a Sony BDP-350 and love them. I have had a $500 Yamaha home theater-in-a-box for about 4 years now. After you are done cringing(hehe), take comfort knowing that I just received a VP-150 and will over time upgrade the rest of our speakers. My reciever is a Yamaha HTR-5740. I wanted to upgrade all the speakers and then get a more powerful, better receiver, but I think the receiver may have to come first. The VP150 does not sound good, sounds thin, sizzley, and has some distortion when turned up to -19 or so db's. I have it unplugged right now to keep from harming it. My other speakers are rated at 100 wpc max and so I can't get a real powerful receiver yet, as I want to wait a little while and save before I upgrade them. So, my question to you all is, what receivers would you recommend to fill my needs? What do you recommend I do? I am anxious to learn more about the technical side of all this, but realize I have very limited knowledge of it at this time. Thanks for all your help!!

Matt

I wouldn't worry about the 100WPC max on the receiver.

I would be concerned about the sound of the VP150--unless there's definitely something wrong with the center channel out on your current receiver (which you should be able to hear in the original center channel speaker, there's something wrong with that. I would bet that not all of the drivers are working.

I will check all the drivers, but I think they are all working, as I sat in front of it and listened to it. The center that was connected before did have some sound issues, distortion when played loud, sizzling on some vocals, etc, but I thought it was blown. I assume now it is actually a problem with the receiver.
When you say you wouldn't worry about the 100 wpc max on the receiver does that mean even though my other speakers are rated at that, I can have a more powerful receiver without destroying them? Thanks!

Oh yeah, you won't be hitting anywhere near 100WPC the vast majority of the time, and even when you do, it'll be brief. Far easier to damage speakers with underpowered (eg, 5 WPC...) amps than overpowered ones.

I think we're going to need a price range before we can recommend a receiver. With a range of ~US$1000, 1200, it's the Denon 3808, but I know that I don't have a price range like that!

Best way to confirm that it's the receiver and not the speaker? Hook it up to a different output on the receiver, just for testing purposes.

Okay, will have to try that. I also am going to take the speaker to a friends house with a better receiver and see how it sounds. Might not be for a couple days though. As far as price range, I would love to stay around $600-800. Will think about that Denon, have to talk to the wife of course, hehe. What about the lower price range?

You'll probably get a recommendation for an Onkyo, in that case.

Another question: what Axioms are you looking at other than the VP150? If it's the M80s, then that's another important factor in choosing a receiver.

In that price range, you're not looking at much over 100WPC anyway, so...

Yamaha might also be a valid choice. I believe the 663 was popular a little bit ago, but I don't know if that's currently available. Sherwood Newcastles are fairly well regarded, but there's not many people around here who have them.

Harman/Kardon quality control seems to have gone downhill in the past few years, so I'd probably avoid those.

Was thinking the M60's.

In that ~$500 range the Yamaha 663 is a steal as well.

you could also go with one of the lower model denons, like the 2308 or 2808.
I would reccomend getting a list of receivers together and then make a call to 6ave.com. get a quote from them on a few receivers... their prices are usually way better over the phone.

Just called 6ave about the denon 2808. Their site lists it at $665, guy on the phone quoted me $791. I told him about the website and he said "oh yeah, looks like they put them on sale." Glad I didn't say yes to the 791! Still gonna' check around some more. How much clearance should I have around the receiver?

I generally like having about 6 inches of open air above mine (of course, it's in a closed front cabinet, with an open-ish back.)

As much as possible I believe a few inches all around is sufficient, if it gets too hot you can always add one or two fans.

What about the Onkyo TX-SR805? Found it on Amazon for 650 bucks.

I haven't heard that one myself, but from the opinions I have heard and reviews I've read it seems to be a great receiver. I have the 605 and have been very pleased with it with all around.

That's a great price for an 805.

people have reported problems running M80's or other 4-ohm speakers with that receiver, but for the M60's or any other 8-ohm speaker you should be fine

What about having it sitting out in open air? Would dust be a problem?

Just run a duster over it every once in a while. It'll get dusty inside a cabinet, too.

I like Onkyo products myself. There is no need to worry about dust on the inside, it won't hurt anything.

$650 seems to be a very good price for that 805 ... regarding the dust, you can get a little aerosol can that is used for dusting the PC equipment.

So if I plug some very cheap yamaha speakers rated at 100 wpc max along with a VP150 center into the Onkyo TX-SR805 it won't hurt the Yamaha speakers? Thanks for all of your help!!!

It won't hurt the speakers if your listening at levels that don't cause hearing damage. I have the Onkyo 805, had it for over a year now with no problems.

DG - what speakers are you running with your Onkyo 805?

Thanks!

I believe this is the set he posted the picture of earlier.



KIDDING, of Course!!! [/size]
Sorry, my friends kid just got this for his birthday and I've been waiting for an opening.
.

Hahaha, yep thats the one! Don't laugh they have sounded really great for the last four years. 4 ohms, 300 watt max speakers.

No really the speakers I have are the Yamaha NS-AP4400. Cheapo. Time to upgrade. Have the VP150, M60's next. Just ordered the Onkyo TX-SR805! Can't wait to get it. I am sure I will be dying to upgrade the rest of our speakers as soon as I plug it in though. Thanks for everyone's help!

I think you'll definitely get the itch once you have a receiver that's not creating the distortion you mentioned. The VP150 will stand out and the Yamaha's will start to limp along behind

HT gear is an addictive hobby. The good news is you have a great center channel to start with and you'll love the M60's when you're ready. When the time is right, get some QS8's and start saving up for an EP500 to complete the experience

Every time I sit down to a movie I remember how lucky I am to have the same setup.

Man, i can't wait for the day when I have the M60's and the QS8's. Looking at a HSU sub. Any thoughts?

I'm certainly interested in the new ULS-15. The good news is that I have no money for them yet (figure I need to get a pair, at least), so in my waiting there will be time for a lot more people to comment on them.

Wow, that's a big one. Was looking at the VTF-2 MK3. Way down the road for me though, still have to get my other speakers first.

The sub market is flourishing with great inexpensive subs, Axiom, SVS, Hsu, epik, elemental Designs just to name a few. Pick which ever one you feel is the right size and price from any of the usuall suspects listed on the AV boards and you won't go wrong.

Nothing wrong with that Hsu sub.

{{ Insert jokes here }}

M22's VP150 QS8's

hahahahaha!!

That's what she said! ^2

MCL,

I would also look into using a 14 AWG cable with the new speakers. I got 250 mts role from Cables To Go and my HT system sounded much better than the stock 16 guage I was using originally.

Must have been some import copper.

Don't forget about the upcoming Emotiva subs. They look terrific.

I noticed they removed them from their website, at least the last time I looked?

I will take a guess and say unless you have some long runs, the improvement was most likely due to some slighlty oxidized connections and the new wiring simply eliminated the poor connections, but the 14 AWG suggestion is dead on. I wouldn't wire up a system with anything less, although I was using some very old 16AWG when I first hooked up the M80s and then switched to Axiom's 12AWG, I really couldn't hear a difference.

Oxidized connections (and cables) are insidious. I had very good cables before, but after quite a few years I changed (same grade, just new cables and connectors) and there was a certain "haziness" that disappeared. The change was motivated by length, not by sound. But once I heard the difference, I opened up a great length of my old cable and I could see a much higher level of oxydation than I would have anticipated.

The Emotiva site has this still posted...

I stripped the 16 guage about 21 ft and noticed oxidation at 2 spots - this would explain the lack of clarity. The cable is now in the garbage!

I can understand how oxidization at the connections would have an effect on sound quality but I'm not understanding how surface oxidization on the rest of the run is affecting sound quality?

The oxidation in the rest of the wire is causing higher resistance to electron flow, the same as if the connection was corroded. The connection is usually the more susceptible area. This higher resistance now causes a sound difference.

This is the usual scenario when you hear people talking about how X cable improved their sound quality, it is simply a case of some extra resistance has somehow gotten into the previous wiring used.

I also wanted to add I do an annual cleaning of my equpment usually during the boxing week. During this time, I remove all the connections to my equipment and clean them up alcohol. Also the cables in question were used when I lived in a tropical place for ~4 years and I suspect it might have started the oxidation then.

Most certainly.