I was just wondering.... is Axiom high end? I read many glowing reviews but never heard the speakers. At what level of speakers from regular stores would you say that the Axioms are on par with?
I know sound may be different, but, overall, how would you guys place Axiom on the grand scheme of things?
An example: Audi ~ BMW ~ Mercedes, whereas Bentley ~ Maybach
Thanks!
Could you give us your definition of "high end"? Each of us probably has a different definition of "low end," "mid range," and "high end," based on a variety of parameters, including budget, aesthetics, etc.
There are speakers available that cost over 100 times as much as Axioms. Are they superior to Axioms? Some, probably; others, probably not. Are any of them 100 times superior to Axioms? I doubt it.
What I CAN tell you is that Axioms are a heck of a good value. They are in a class with some excellent speakers, many of which cost much more. But, within that class, speakers will have slightly different sonic signatures. Which particular speaker in that class YOU would prefer is a purely subjective decision, and only YOU can make that decision.
High end sound with mid to lower end cost.
They are true hi-fi speakers. I think that's all you need to know.
But really, compared to other speakers, they are high end. Maybe not the top end, but they certainly are high end. Top end speakers go for ridiculous prices.
To get anything better than the axioms you are going to have to pay significantly more money. Personally, I think the value is the best part of them.
Dude, welcome. Forget the term "high end", which is often used by those who equate sound quality with price; there's little or no correlation in audio between price and sound quality, and often you don't "get what you pay for".
The Axioms are accurate, fine-sounding speakers which are sold at a fair price.
What up Dude
I've owned a lot of speakers through the years, and I consider Axiom to be Audiophile speakers. Of the brands you listed, I did do a one-on-one comparison of my Axiom m60ti's against B&W 703's. They are very similar sounding, but I gave the Axioms the winning overall vote, especially if you compare price. One 703 cost's more than two m60ti's.
Every speaker in the Axiom lineup is fabulous, and the sound is deadon accurate in reproducing your music and/or movies. Oh yeah, and the Qs8's are the best surround in the industry, in my opinion.
You might want to check the "Audition Thread" in the Hearing Things forum to see if someone lives close to you and will let you audition their Axioms. That is what sold me.
Axiom Sound = Utopia
>>I know sound may be different, but, overall, how would you guys place Axiom on the grand scheme of things? An example: Audi ~ BMW ~ Mercedes, whereas Bentley ~ Maybach
Car analogies are tough because cars have gotten so complicated recently, but if I had to do a car analogy I would say go back 20 years and look at the inexpensive German sports sedans like the BMW 2002. Simple, kinda square, but versatility, performance and handling out of proportion to their cost.
What people like about Axioms the most is what you might call transparency, clarity, whatever -- you just seem to "see inside the music" more clearly than most speakers in the same price range. It's hard to describe without hearing them.
My only concept of 'low end' or even 'mid-fi' is anything that really sounds questionable. This includes most speakers built for computers and any unknown, 15 syllable brand name that magically sells the best sound ever for fifty bucks or less at Radio Shack.
I visualize hifi as any company that makes a reasonable attempt at making an honestly good speaker.
Define that further at your own discretion.
Audiosnobs will tell you that hifi is anything above a certain and yet non-specific price point. If Axioms sold their speakers with real wood veneers (coming soon) and for about $3000 more, they would probably be classified as hifi and eventually get accepted into the world of snobbery.
So far they've kept pretty well to their more humble roots in the rural area outside of Huntsville.
Lovely area.
Very wooded.
I think using cars is a poor way to analogize speakers because like speakers people have different tastes in cars.
My first reaction was to say they are like Infinities or Acuras. Toyota and Honda are good cars and Infinaties and Acuras are their high end versions. I'd put Axioms in that catagory as far as "quality".
That being said I don't see any good analogies with cars regarding value because they're simply not any cars out there with the price/quality ratio that Axiom present IMHO.
How bout something deceptively simple like
entry-level high-end.
In reply to:
An example: Audi ~ BMW ~ Mercedes, whereas Bentley ~ Maybach
In reply to:
Hey Dude
I agree with a lot of what has already been said. But if I had to compare the Axioms to a car, I might think of the 350Z. You get the performance of many of the expensive Euro imports, at a more reasonable price. While the styling and design are top notch at the given price point, some of the bells and whistles may be absent. But what really is important, is what is under the hood. Top notch drivers in the case of the Axioms and Nissan's 10 year running, award winning, V6 engine in the case of the 350Z.
Seriously though, even if Axiom put nice wood veneers and on their boxes and charged a bit more for them they would be considered entry level audiophile speakers. But what does that mean. Those are just words and like others have said there is not a small amount of elitism involved in being a "true audiophile". The Axiom's are a very accurate, well designed and decent looking speaker at a very nice price point.
I like driving my z and I like listening to my 60's now if I could just figure out how to squeeze that, and a nice mountain road all into one experience, well... that would be nirvana.
oz
OK, next we try to compare Axioms to movie stars
In reply to:
OK, next we try to compare Axioms to movie stars
In reply to:
John
With that avatar of yours I'll have to defer to you on that one.
Nah, there never was a Sledge Hammer movie. David Rasche is still appearing in a bunch of new movies, but not as the guy in the avatar (unfortunately).
I've had the pleasure of driving Honda Accord EXs and Mercedes Benz 240s. Would you say that Mercedes Benz is high end and Honda mid level or economy car? In my opinion there is no comparison. The Honda Accord is a better car in every way. Pretty is as pretty does.
My brother has a real nice setup:
Rotel RC1070 preamp to a Rotel RB1090 2-Channel amplifier to a pair of Martin Logan Vantages.
It sounds real real super nice and I was wondering about getting my own 2 channel rig... I dont have as much money as he does, so I figured I'd start somewhere cheaper.
That's why I put up this thread, I heard about Axioms, but I dont know much about them.
Thanks.
Dude, you might want to check out the Audition thread in the Hearing Things forum to see if you live near an Axiom owner, then you can judge for yourself.
If you like the clarity and imaging of the MLs then I feel confident you would also Like the Axioms. These are strong points of the entire Axiom line. I run my M80s with the Rotel RC 1070 and RB 1080 and the combination sounds excellent.
My questions regarding the car analogy are thus:
Is the Maybach truly $300,000 better than an S-Class?
Can YOU tell the difference between a $1400 pair of speakers and a $20,000 pair of speakers?
Is the $20,000 pair of speakers REALLY $18,600 better than the $1400 pair?
As they say, if you are asking the question, you probably can't afford it. My answer is this: The Axioms are very high quality speakers for the price. Only a couple of manufacturers in the world can deliver such a high price/performance ratio. And to reiterate: If you can afford the true "high end," meaning pricewise, you probably wouldn't be here asking the question. People at the theoretical "high end" pay more for speaker cables than most of us here have invested in their entire systems (Tharkun included). I'm talking $1000+/ft for speaker cables. So if you are looking for a pair of speakers in the $300-$1500/pair range: Yes, in my opinion, the Axioms are at the "high end." Judging by the reviews Axiom has received they are near the high end for $2000 to $7500 speakers as well, not that you would have to pay anything near those sums.
Re-reading your original question....
Where does Axiom fit in the overall scheme of things. What level of regular store speakers for instance?
Over the last half a decade or so, to justify my first Axiom purchase nearly five years ago, I've managed to try keep up with the entire audio scene and how Axiom fits overall.
The stuff at B-B and C-C and like that?
No competition from them as reguards the stuff they sell off the shelf. If you go to some of the name brands higher end products that are not generally sold in those stores, then you get into things that are closer to the Axiom performance level, but expect to pay even more for them due to marketing considerations and finishing materials.
When you visit the forums where all varieties of speakers are discussed, the Axiom line-up is usually thought of as being a serious contender for an audiophiles hard earned dollars where a buget is considered. The sound is generally thought to be near to, or the equal of many speakers that sell in the 2 to 3K dollar range.
Part of the price difference of course is the real wood finish and the marketing costs of most of the other brands.
So yes. By all accounts, Axiom makes serious Audiophile grade speakers at a price that mere mortals can afford!
Rich.
I'll ask the question.
If you take the drivers out of my M80s and put then in a $5000 cabinet, will they sound better? And conversely take the drivers from the $5000 cabinet and put then in my M80 cabinet, will they sound worse?
Only if you read some of the other AVS forums.
>>If you take the drivers out of my M80s and put then in a $5000 cabinet, will they sound better? And conversely take the drivers from the $5000 cabinet and put then in my M80 cabinet, will they sound worse?
I'm assuming we ignore things like ports and crossovers being tuned for the drivers each speaker is designed for... if the ports and crossovers magically changed to be correct for the new drivers I imagine the sound would be slightly different but hard to peg as "better or worse".
I bet the $5000 cabinet would have real nice wood veneer though
Maybe,....if it were that easy!
My take on the whole thing is that Axiom takes relatively inexpensive but well engineered drivers and places them in relatively inexpensive but well engineered cabinets intended exclusively for those relatively inexpensive but well engineered drivers(whew)and adds relatively inexpensive but well engineered crossover networks that mates the relatively inexpensive but well engineederd drivers perfectly with those relatively inexpensive but well enginered drivers and cabinets.
And then tests the poop right outtavum and gets them fine tuned thru double blind testing via processes developed at NRC.
Then, thanks to a relatively low overhead, and common sense in pricing, is able to sell them at a very competative price!
Did I miss anything?
....so I went to the Honda dealer to get new front brakes for my Jeep, but they don't work quite so well
>> I bet the $5000 cabinet would have real nice wood veneer though <<
A 'fine piano finish' ... as my dealer likes to say regarding the 5k and up speakers.
Yep...a piano or high gloss finish can add a substantial about to the cost of a speaker for sure, but in my opinio, it can be worth the cost if you also look at the speakers a fine piece of furniture. when added to a room that is not a dedicated HT area.
I'm not trying to peddle Aperion, but my center channel has a beautiful black piano finish on it, and the price was not significant.