Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler The "unofficial" EP-600 drawing thread ...

Curtis, Had he used several different companies along with Axiom, yes, the discussion would have been different. He would have come across as reasonable.

Also, it is pretty well known that a flat frequency response does not mean great sound, and that a curvy response does not mean a speaker is a bad design. If it did, Magnepan, Quad, Sonus Faber and JM Labs, ALL would be gone.

For the record, I did respond with fact, but Grandarf would not accept anything short of a link to the NRC stating they tested the product. The NRC offers no such thing.

It is a fact that Axiom does all its measurements at the NRC.

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Curtis, Had he used several different companies along with Axiom, yes, the discussion would have been different. He would have come across as reasonable.

Also, it is pretty well known that a flat frequency response does not mean great sound, and that a curvy response does not mean a speaker is a bad design. If it did, Magnepan, Quad, Sonus Faber and JM Labs, ALL would be gone.

For the record, I did respond with fact, but Grandarf would not accept anything short of a link to the NRC stating they tested the product. The NRC offers no such thing.

It is a fact that Axiom does all its measurements at the NRC.

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OK...that is fair. He made the mistake of not using other companies as well, and nobodyelse did either. And when he did...it was disregarded because the discussion was already heated and focused.

A fact is something you can be substantiated. That is what Grandarf is looking for. So if the NRC said "we do all of Axiom's measurements, and the posted measurements from Axiom were indeed taken by us"...then Grandarf would have to take that as fact.

Must of been one hell of a thread to boil over into this forum.

it was a ridiculous thread...opinion vs opinion....around in circles.

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To prove him wrong, you need to show him hard evidence...

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Just my opinion, but if someone expresses an opinion that a company or person is engaging in unethical behavior, THAT person is the one who should provide the evidence. To express such an opinion WITHOUT evidence is irresponsible at best, and maliciously libelous at the worst. Innocent until proven guilty.

HIS evidence is a 4 year old graph of a speaker that has undergone changes and improvements. The graph of the current M80 IS evidence that he, and others simply refuse to accept, based on implications of possible unethical behavior, i.e, the manipulation of NRC graphs. I ask the question again. Do you really believe Axiom manipulated the current NRC graphs?

(I want to make it clear that Curtis has NEVER stated or implied that Axiom manipulated the current NRC graphs. I'm merely asking if he agrees with Grandarf's speculation that that is a possibility.)

Oh..you are asking me?

No..I do not think Axiom manipulated data, but I can't prove that. I can show that other company's specs do not meet independent party's measurements.

All he had to go on is what is posted by an independent party.

Dam, a thread somewhere that involved arguing, opinions, invalidated thoughts, speculation.................and I didn't get to post once in it. I'm getting old. In my younger day's, I never would have missed it!

This thread you guys are talking about sounds similar to what I went off about regarding the EP500 when it first came out. Which by the way, I never did get an answer on!!!!!! ..........but that is water under the bridge!

Regardless of what the old or current graph says, I love the clarity of my M80's. And that's what it really comes down to. Who cares that it is 1db quieter at 30Hz than the next speaker. Put me in a room with a blindfold and a blank cheque and who knows what I'd take home!?!?!

Now when I win the 600 tomorrow, I'm driving the two and a half hours to Dwight first thing Monday morning to get that baby! Does the Golden Ticket include an overnight at Ian & Amie's?

Curtis, Grandarf was not interested in facts, period. He made a clear attack when he started with the "Axiom posted its own measurements because it did not like the ones SoundStage posted". In our society, the burden of PROOF lies with the ACCUSER for a reason. If the burden of proof lies with the attackee, then we are in deep trouble.

HE made a statement/attack with ZERO evidence.

THEN he said it was up to Axiom to disprove his claim.

IT is like the old question: "So tell me Curtis, when did you stop beating your child?"

Assumption of wrong doing is not how we conduct our society.

like I said....circles...

If I remember correctly...he started with the M3 listed specs and Soundstage measurements.

edit...I was wrong..he did start with the M80.