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#13576 - 02/11/04 01:47 AM Re: beer thread ****
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
BigWill,

I've yet to try any beer with "Bock" on it's label that I'd buy again. (And that's before I found out bock means goat!) It's strange because as far as I know a bock is just a dark lager. Perhaps tomtuttle can recommed a good bock?
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#13577 - 02/11/04 08:46 AM Re: beer thread
twodan19 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 624
Loc: Pembroke, Massachusetts
good idea, never thought of it. but, one can't forget beer can chicken either.
dan

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#13578 - 02/11/04 09:33 AM Re: beer thread
JasonG Offline
local

Registered: 04/29/02
Posts: 216
Loc: central Ohio
In reply to:

Obviously you've never tried Club beer!



I've never even heard of it. Is it regional?

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#13579 - 02/11/04 09:38 AM Bock
JasonG Offline
local

Registered: 04/29/02
Posts: 216
Loc: central Ohio
Ayinger Celebrator Doppelbock is probably the best bock I've tasted. The Paulaner Salvator is worth trying too.

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#13580 - 02/11/04 11:51 AM Re: Bock
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8294
Loc: Tacoma
Right on, Jason. Excellent choices on the Bocks.

Bock is a traditional, strong German lager style, not necessarily dark in color. They are distinguished by not only their strength, but also a sweet maltiness. Traditional German brewing techniques include a decoction mash, whereby the temperature of the mash is elevated in several steps by removing part of the mash, heating it and then returning it to the main mash. This technique develops tremendous depth of malt flavor, and can be easily discerned in the best German beers. Since they focus on displaying malt, Bocks are probably the best example of the melanoidins created by this process.

Doppelbocks like Jason recommends are the "biggest" examples of the style (and my favorites as well - especially the Paulaner). However, there are good pale bocks as well. I just can't think of any that are brewed in America off the top of my head.

It is an economic problem, really. Making lagers in general is more expensive because the fermentation takes longer and requires refrigeration. Consequently, you have probably noticed that most "craft" breweries focus on Ale styles rather than Lagers. Budmilloors beer factories still make lagers profitably largely because of not only economy of scale, but also because they require less of the basic ingredients (Bud is not very flavorful for a reason) and stretch their grain bill with less costly fermentables (rice and corn instead of barley).

Many of the American bocks that you see are not very good because they exist more as a marketing ploy rather than as a stylistic expression of the brewer. I don't know that I would recognize Shiner Bock as a "bock" in a blind tasting, for instance. The American brewing tradition came primarily from German immigrants, but post-prohibition economics dictated that marketing was more important than adherence to traditional styles and techniques. It is simply impossible to do decoction mashes in huge quantity, yet companies wanted to diversify their offerings - hence, let's call the "dark" beer our "bock".

In general, if you can get a Bock from a local craft brewer, it will probably be pretty close to style, but to me, nothing can compare to a fresh, carefully handled example from Deutschland.

Hey Mark, thanks for the tip on the Cognac! Keep those kinds of tidbits coming, please!

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bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#13581 - 02/11/04 10:12 PM Re: beer thread
sidvicious02 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 973
Loc: Brandon, Manitoba
Hi Jason,
Club is a Labatt's product that I assumed was a widely available Canadian beer (but maybe I was wrong). I actually thought they took it off the market after all those teenagers went blind a few years back!
_________________________
"Chickens don't clap."

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#13582 - 02/11/04 11:46 PM Re: beer thread
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
And all this time I thought teenagers went blind for a different reason...
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#13583 - 02/12/04 12:46 PM Re: beer thread
James_T Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 715
Loc: Seattle WA
Two current favorites.

Hefe Weizen from Feierlings Brauerei in Freiburg Germany (amazing time had enjoying lazy summer afternoons in 91) Zum Voll!

Belgian White beers. I don't know the particular brand, but I tried it for the first time at the Zeitgeist bar in San Francisco (mission st)
_________________________
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." C Hitchens

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#13584 - 02/12/04 02:19 PM Re: beer thread
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8294
Loc: Tacoma
Excellent, James! You must have a good local shop, because the Feierlings is not widely distributed.

For the white (wit) beers, I like the Blanche de Chambly from Unibroue a lot. Hoegaarden is the standard. Is Celis still making beer? That was a good one, but we don't get it in the NW anymore.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#13585 - 02/12/04 05:21 PM Re: beer thread
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Beer lovers rejoice! New research shows that drinking beer is just as hydrating as drinking water. Feel free to substitute a beer for any/all of those glasses.

Good 'ol Canadian scientists have their hearts (and guts) in the right place.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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