Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Input Appreciated--M60s or M80s?

Hello from Central Ohio!

I'm upgrading from my old stereo system to one that I'd like to be real nice for music but also acceptable for HT. Got a great deal on a new Yamaha 5660, and after talking with an Axiom person am considering a setup as follows: M60s and VP150 in front, QS8 surrounds, EP350 sub.

I KNOW the 5660 is only 85 watts, and I KNOW the M80s would probably not get enough power for me to appreciate them (or maybe even to notice the difference over the M60s), but supposedly the receiver could handle them and the "Tim the Toolman" part of me wonders if I should just get the M80s instead of the M60s. The Axiom person said the 80s would primarily differentiate themselves from the 60s at high power/high volume and that's not what I'm really looking for. I'm striving for a solid, moderate-volume, well sounding system with good speakers. Would appreciate any thoughts from you kind folks about this...this is a great board and doesn't seem to have some of the "high end elitism" I've seen so far on other boards.

BTW, my current "system" is a 10 year old Technics receiver with similar aged Bose AM-5, so I think anything I've mentioned above will be a significant step up.

Thanks in advance and take care!

Larry
Columbus, Ohio

Welcome, Larry. I think that I can figure out what college football team you'll be rooting for, but I don't know where you got the idea that the M80s would need more power than the M60s. If you look at the specs you'll note that the M80s are actually slightly more sensitive and will require less power for the same output level. Bigger speaker doesn't mean bigger amp; often, as is the case here, the opposite is true. Having said that, from your description of your listening preferences I'd think that the M60s will suit you just fine and that you don't need M80s.

I agree with John. In this post, Axiom's President, Ian Colquhoun, describes the two speakers this way: “The M60 is an 8 ohm version of the M80. You will not lose any sound quality, imaging, or dynamics. The difference is in the clean achievable output levels, but keep in mind that going for high clean output should be done by purchasing both the M80s and big power; either one in isolation will not achieve the goal.” Comparing this to your receiver choice and description of your listening preferences, the M60s appear to be a much better match. It seems that the $300 price differential between the M60s and M80s -- which according to PriceGrabber is 90% of the cost of the receiver -- could be spent better elsewhere or simply saved.

I'm not familiar with the receiver, but your speaker choices are excellent. You should be happy with either the M80s or M60s as your mains, but I would save the money and go with the M60s.

Larry, can I ask where you got the 5660 and how much you paid? I'm very interested. Thanks!

John et al.:

Thanks for the quick responses folks...good points and my takeaway (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that for all practical purposes, at lower/mid sound levels, the M60 and M80 will probably not sound that much different. Only at higher sound levels will there be a difference, and the 80s will have greater reach there GIVEN higher power.

My follow up question is real subjective I know, but when people talk about "high output" are they talking about seriously loud music (e.g., like "goes to 11" kind of sound)? The Yamaha receiver I bought is 85W output, and I'm sure that'll be PLENTY loud for me...should easily get me to the "turn it down!" level from my wife...I'm assuming that high output is more like what you'd need 130-150W+ for?

Thanks in advance for additional thoughts...y'all are very helpful!

Take care.

Larry

P.S. John, I went to Purdue undergrad, OSU grad school, so while I'm a Big 10 boy overall my heart lies with the Boilermakers!

Take care all.

Tom:

Sorry, forgot to answer your question...the deal I got isn't like "internet good", but still decent. I got it on sale and with an additional "frequent customer" discount at Best Buy for about $410 (not opened or anything...new in box). Again, not as tight as some of the other things I've bought off the internet but I like the convenience of being able to return it easily...and in fact I haven't opened it up yet as I'm still keeping my eyes open for receivers. Been to a couple of "high end" shops here in Columbus but I don't know that I'm willing to spend high end dollars on a receiver...not sure I need it given my somewhat casual needs...I think the Yamaha is a pretty solid unit for my needs, though, and with the Axioms should be a real nice combination. Were you looking at the 5660? Any recommendations re: other receivers in that price range?

Take care.

Larry

Larry, your 5660 will have plenty of power unless your listening room is huge. Remember, the difference between 85 watts and 130-150 watts is only about 2db(e.g. the difference between 115db and 117db on peaks)so don't worry about it.

Incidentally, my own Big 10 time was in Ann Arbor, so that's the way I go in college games.

Given the rated power-handling capabilities of the speakers, I think either will perform to output levels you will find uncomfortable in a normal home. The M80 will handle up to 400 watts and the M60 will handle up to 250 watts.

I'm using the Denon AVR-3803, which is rated at 110-watts per channel. I'm in a large space (6000 cubic feet with two unclosable entryways to another 4500 cubic feet -- not counting a foyer and stairwell open to the second floor). I normally listen to music at -10 to -5 (on a scale from -80 to +12). I can exceed 100 dB, which I find uncomfortably loud, at +6 on the volume control. Assuming the volume control is evenly calibrated, that means I'm using approximately 27 watts of the receiver's power (each 3 dB increase requires a doubling of power). The output difference between an accurately rated 85-watt receiver and 110-watt receiver is negligible (less than 1 dB).

The bottom line is that I think you will be very happy with the M60s given your receiver choice and your listening preferences.

Both of my brothers played at UCLA - one back in '82. Remember that absolutely fabulous game in Ann Arbor, John? Bruins trailing by 21 in the fourth quarter only to rally and win on the road? Wasn't that awesome? Better even than the Rose Bowl victory over Michigan later that season.

No Mark, for some strange reason those games of 20 years ago had managed to slip from my memory; that is until you reminded me of them. Seriously though, I suppose I am a bit of a football nut, to the extent that for 5 years I was an assistant coach in high school in an earlier life.

Thanks, Larry.

I have pretty much settled on the Yamaha 5660 as my next unit. I've had Yamaha stuff for years with no trouble.

The other things I was looking at:
Marantz 4300 - no front inputs or Zone 2/speaker B. The 5300 was too expensive.
Denon - hated the remote on the 1803; could not get my price on a 2802 or 2803.
Onkyo SR600/601 - some people have expressed concern about build quality in the lower-end Onkyos. Does not have pre-outs.

I looked at other Yamahas and would probably be happy with a 5650 if I could find one (lacks the pre-outs, but that's future anyway...). The 5640 does not have S-video switching. I think the RX-V640 is functionally identical to the HTR-5660.

I think you'll be very happy with that receiver and a M60 setup.

Mark,

Funny you mention Michigan/UCLA. During my 4 years at UM ('91-'95), we made it to a couple of Rose Bowls against Washington (splitting games), and UCLA's appearance during that time was a loss to Wisconsin. I don't think we played UCLA in football during my years.

But, if I remember correctly, we did play UCLA and won during the NCAA B-ball tournament my freshman or sophomore year with the fab five. Great game.

OK, maybe it's time someone started a "Sports and Spirits" thread.

Or perhaps we should have Amie create an "Off-Topic" area in the forum. I'm sure it would soon be a very popular place.

"Or perhaps we should have Amie create an "Off-Topic" area in the forum."

That would be very dangerous around here

Also Tom, onecall.com has the 5660 for $450 with free 3rd-day shipping.

dangerous, but perhaps a bit tidier.