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#150012 - 10/24/06 11:24 AM Opinions requested on which model
Jacksmyname Offline
regular

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 8
Hi all. My first post here, but I've been reading for a while.
I'm building a new house, and considering new speakers. I have a pair of Mirage M760's that are now 17 years old. They still sound great to this day, but I'm thinking it's time for new ones, especially with the nice finishes available. I'm really concerned with sound quality. I'm 50/50 with music and movie soundtracks, but more concerned with music (I figure if it sounds great with music, movies will be fine too).
I've been reading about the M60's and the M80's. My first thought was the 80, but I'm wondering about the 4ohm spec.
I have the new Yamaha RX-V2700; 140x7. Anyone have any thoughts as to whether or not the Yammie will drive the 80's ok, or would I be better off with the 60's?
Also, if it helps, here's a link to the floorplan of the house. I've marked speaker locations for 7.1 with red dots (forgot to mark the sub; surrounds will be ceiling mounted), and the sofa location with a red line. The sofa will be about 12 feet away from the equipment wall (the wall with the three dots L,C,R). Mains will be about 8 feet apart. The house has a vaulted ceiling, with the highest point being about 14 feet or so. The great room is open to the kitchen, breakfast area, foyer, dining room (typical of Florida construction).
Here's the floorplan:
http://www.pbase.com/image/69101207

Thanks!
Jack


Edited by Jacksmyname (10/24/06 11:24 AM)

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#150013 - 10/24/06 11:42 AM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: Jacksmyname]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
Hey Jack, nice to see ya over on this forum. Glad you took my advice over on AVS.

I can tell you that my room are is bigger than yours. My basement HT/Recroom is 900 Sq Ft. with 9ft ceilings. The HT area is tucked over in one corner area that is set back about 6ft from the rest of the room. The screen front wall is 15ft wide. So far the m60's have been fine. Hopefully others will chime in to give you feedback on that receiver driving m80's. I'm sure it will work, just not sure what will happen if you decide to go to louder volume levels.

Randy
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#150014 - 10/24/06 12:05 PM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: SirQuack]
Jacksmyname Offline
regular

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 8
Hiya Randy. Yeah, square feet isn't a problem, but the cubic foot area is quite large given the open floor plan and ceiling height. I get the sense that the 60's would be fine, but the the price difference between the 60's and the 80's isn't all that much. But as you know, I'm concerned about the 4ohm spec on the 80's.
How do you like the 60's with music only? I listen to some classical, some jazz, some pop/rock. My old Mirage M760's are terrific, from top to bottom, with any of them. On movies they rock, especially with my Mirage S12 sub (got it at a great closeout price). The reason I'm looking to replace them is, even though they still play fine, they are old. And while they look pretty good, they're still "black boxes", and the finishes that Axiom offers really look nice (based on the colors my wife picked, I'm leaning towards gloss white with white grills).
Thanks again.
Jack

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#150015 - 10/24/06 12:08 PM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: Jacksmyname]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
For me the 60's sound fabulous for music and movies. I think you will find this true for all the Axiom lineup. I have 8100 Cu Ft and it is fine, granted I don't have vaulted ceilings in the basement. I used to have my setup in the upstairs living room which the kitchen and living room are vaulted to around a 12-13ft peak and it worked fine.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#150016 - 10/24/06 12:47 PM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: SirQuack]
Jacksmyname Offline
regular

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 8
Randy, what about ceiling height for ceiling mounting the QS8's as surrounds and rear surrounds? The left sides would be lower than the right sides by about 2-3 feet.
How dependent are the QS8's on wall/ceiling reflections?
I have 4 Mirage Omnisat v2 sats that I was planning on using. While there is a vaulted ceiling, I'd like to keep surrounds as inconspicuous as possible. The Mirage's are nice and compact, but the QS8's, while quite a bit larger, don't look too bad (especially if finished in white, same as the ceiling). And of course, sound dispersion is an important factor. I called Mirage and asked about this, and they felt the Omnisat v2's, becuase of the omnipolar design, would work fine.
I also have a Denon 2930CI universal player which I use for some SACD and DVD-A discs with 5.1.
And the new Toshiba A2 and XA2 HD DVD players on order. With the HDMI capabilities of the Toshiba, the Yamaha 2700 and my Sony LCD, HD DVD's should absolutely rock (the SACD's and DVD-A's are terrific in 5.1 on the Denon, even in my current lousy living room).
Jack

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#150017 - 10/24/06 04:05 PM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: Jacksmyname]
panhead Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 15
Loc: oklahoma
i was pretty woried about the 80's being 4 ohm myself. But i have a denon 3805. Which i think in only 120watts. Since i have gotten my 80's my reciever has had no problems. Have to actually turn it down way more than what i was running with the 8ohm speakers. Used to listen to regular tv at like -27 now i am up around -37 or so depending on the show. And when listing to dolby digital used to get down around -13 or so. NOw would blow my ear drumbs out if i got into the teens. It was different but never had any problems. I am sure your yamaha will probably do the trick.
_________________________
m80's vp150 qs8's ep350 denon 3805

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#150018 - 10/24/06 05:09 PM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: Jacksmyname]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
The q's are very forgiving and because they have 4 drivers firing in phase at the same time you are totally enveloped in the sound, I don't think a few feet up/down would bake a big difference. I would be more concerned about how high they will be. Also, your placement of the left/right and rears does not make sense. You need to have the left/right surrounds spaced out further to the left/right of the main couch. Also, the rears you have behind the left/right surrounds, not good, they need to be closer togethor and behind the listeners.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#150019 - 10/24/06 11:08 PM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: Jacksmyname]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Jack, welcome. Looking at your floorplan the thing that jumps out is what Randy has commented on: the side surrounds should be much wider and directly to the side of the listeners. The back surrounds can be a little less spread, although still enough to give listeners a left back and right back "stereo" effect.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#150020 - 10/24/06 11:47 PM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: JohnK]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
John, can you or others provide some feedback on Jack's concern about driving m80's with that receiver? I know Denon, HK, and seperates are the norm around these parts. I know you've mentioned that any decent solid state AVR will drive 80's, it is just the volume levels that may cause the AVR to go into a protection status? Anybody out there using this AVR with 80's? Help this Floridian out.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#150021 - 10/24/06 11:59 PM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: SirQuack]
Sutter Cane Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 626
Loc: Wichita, KS
While in the process of making upgrades, I'm currently running my M80's with my backup reciever, a Yamaha RX-V659 and haven't had one problem yet.

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#150022 - 10/25/06 12:27 AM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: Jacksmyname]
KC23 Offline
local

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 212
Loc: Southern California
Yamaha's have a bad 4ohm reputation, but the 2700 is their latest so I'm not sure about that one. The word on the 2600 was it was okay as long as you weren't looking for obscene volume levels. The 2700 is likely to be better. Don't expect to get good info from Yamaha their canned response is to tell ya it won't work, but the audioholics.com reviewers say otherwise ... but the 2600 did have limitations. The 2700 I'm not sure about. I would hope it would be better.

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#150023 - 10/25/06 12:33 AM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: KC23]
Sutter Cane Offline
aficionado

Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 626
Loc: Wichita, KS
Quote:

Yamaha's have a bad 4ohm reputation, but the 2700 is their latest so I'm not sure about that one. The word on the 2600 was it was okay as long as you weren't looking for obscene volume levels.




It's for that very reason why I don't play my 659 very loud. So far, I've had no problems. I just pulled it out of the closest, as it's my backup receiver that I keep around and use during my times of upgrades.

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#150024 - 10/25/06 02:46 AM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: SirQuack]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Jack, as Randy mentioned, it appears that the main question should be not whether a 4 ohm speaker can be driven, but rather how loudly. There's a tendency to overestimate the amount of power actually used in home audio and also the difficulty with 4 ohm speakers, since if the power used isn't high neither is the current, even with 4 ohm speakers. The relatively new 2700 doesn't appear to have any lab tests yet, but the 2600 has tested very well, including into 4 ohms. The S&V test showed over 200 watts into 4 ohms. The 2700 should be plenty for the M80s in most setups.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#150025 - 10/25/06 06:03 AM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: JohnK]
Jacksmyname Offline
regular

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 8
Thanks Randy, John and everybody for the help; I REALLY appreciate it.

Jack

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#150026 - 10/27/06 03:25 AM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: Jacksmyname]
DrunkenWolf Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/25/06
Posts: 133
Loc: Issaquah, WA
I have the V2500 driving 80s/150/QS8s, and a couple small sats to round out the 7.1. It does just fine, doesn't get hot and is in an ventilated but slightly confined cabinet. I was tweaked out like you are about the 4ohm thing. I worried too much about it. I can play these speakers louder than I want to play them.

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#150027 - 10/27/06 06:57 AM Re: Opinions requested on which model [Re: DrunkenWolf]
Jacksmyname Offline
regular

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 8
Thanks Wolf

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