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#222309 - 09/23/08 07:55 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: 2x6spds]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
It is just a parting shot. Its part of the game. Its pretty easy to say when one is selling just "uber" networks for over $300. The question I pose now would a M22v2 with the ninja network yield better performance than the M50 or M60 (closest price range)....not likely.


Edited by Dr.House (09/23/08 08:04 PM)
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#222311 - 09/23/08 08:06 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: 2x6spds]
HomeDad Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 3301
Loc: Central,California
Imo it doesn't really matter what the stock crossover cost as long as the owners of the M22's enjoy what they are hearing.

I would love to see all the jabbering about this end, and get some actual results to determine if there is a great improvement made to the sound of the speakers. And again Imo for 317.00 a 67% increase in the price of the speaker it needs to be significant.

I would bet most people buy the M22's for their great sound and low price. So now we will have a speaker that costs $787.00 a pair, in that price range I'm sure there are many speakers that would compete pretty well with modified M22's.
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#222318 - 09/23/08 08:58 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: HomeDad]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Michael, I agree with you completely regarding the price point making it a whole new ballgame.

 Quote:
Ninja put up with a lot of crap here


Alright, I'm calling BS on this (with no offense meant to my brother Ken). Honestly, there is a perception that people dumped all over him. I just don't see it. You guys need to give yourselves and each other a break.
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#222319 - 09/23/08 09:10 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: HomeDad]
woofersus Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Mount Vernon, OH
 Originally Posted By: HomeDad
Imo it doesn't really matter what the stock crossover cost as long as the owners of the M22's enjoy what they are hearing.

I would love to see all the jabbering about this end, and get some actual results to determine if there is a great improvement made to the sound of the speakers. And again Imo for 317.00 a 67% increase in the price of the speaker it needs to be significant.

I would bet most people buy the M22's for their great sound and low price. So now we will have a speaker that costs $787.00 a pair, in that price range I'm sure there are many speakers that would compete pretty well with modified M22's.


Certainly the total cost of nearly $800 changes the competition, even if the sound is great. I personally would expect a fairly dramatic improvement for that sort of cost. (reminder: I haven't heard these and have no idea if I think they're worth it)

I would, however, like to point out a couple of things that may affect that obstacle. Using, as an example, the Onix Reference 1, which I have heard pre/post upgrade, and is one of his more popular kits, I would wager that there aren't a ton of people buying a Ref 1 new for $1200 and then buying $400 worth of upgrade for it to get a brand new $1600 speaker. There are some pretty darn great speakers out there for that price.

I suspect that the primary scenarios are 1. bought it used for $400 and upgraded it for a killer $800 monitor; 2. Had it for 5 years now and love it and the upgrade is cheaper than selling it and buying a better speaker; 3. Willing to spend for a nicer speaker, but really don't want floorstanders because of space requirements/WAF/preference/etc.

If somebody here has M22's and has had them for quite some time, maybe $300 is more appealing as an upgrade than trying to ebay them or whatever and buying something totally different, or maybe they really don't want to move to M60's because they want to stay with the form factor. I'm not saying the cost vs. benefit argument doesn't apply, because it absolutely does. I'm just saying that there probably aren't many potential buyers who are going to buy both in one shot.
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#222320 - 09/23/08 09:30 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: woofersus]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
A crossover upgrade can't magically make your bookshelf into a floorstander. It has the potential to make it a better bookshelf, sure, but there's no getting around physics.
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#222321 - 09/23/08 09:33 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: pmbuko]
woofersus Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Mount Vernon, OH
Wasn't really saying that. I was just saying that for some there are reasons that the upgrade path can't include floorstanders. Upgrading your bookshelf speakers becomes more appealing when you aren't comparing your cost to M60's.
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#222322 - 09/23/08 09:49 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: woofersus]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Or comparing them to any other company in the $800 dollar price range such as Paridigm, SVS, Aperion, Jamo, Ascend, Totem, B&W....and the list goes on and on
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#222324 - 09/23/08 09:59 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: BlueJays1]
woofersus Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Mount Vernon, OH
True, which is why I'm curious about the upcoming ninja upgrade to Paradigm Studio 20's. They aren't a "high value" speaker despite being very good. Again, I assume it's aimed at existing owners loyal to their favorite speakers.

Internet direct in general offers better value, and there are a number of companies out there doing it. Certainly I am a believer in ID, as I considered Axiom, Ascend, AV123, B&W, and Paradigm before purchasing, and found B&W and Paradigm to fall behind in the value category definitively.

All of that naturally figures in when considering any upgrade. For that matter, if I'm going to buy something for my front end, like a DAC, or an amp, or cables, or whatever, I have to think about how much improvement I'm getting. Compared to some of those items, new speakers will usually be a better value and a more dramatic improvement. Its not that way every time, though, and sometimes you want to keep the same size, finish, or other attributes, and get an improvement. I'd wager that whatever the level of improvement an upgraded xover gets you, it's in the ball park with some of those other things I mentioned.

(note: I have $10 speaker cables from musicians friend and $6 hdmi cables from monoprice, so I'm not one of "those" people. - you know who I mean)
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Tim Evans
East Street Audio

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#222325 - 09/23/08 10:00 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: 2x6spds]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
Actually, yes I have examined the crossover. I don't work for Axiom, so I have no idea of the cost.
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#222326 - 09/23/08 10:09 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: woofersus]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Nice plug! I do not agree that internet direct companies give you the best value for your money. This is a false assumption. There are many other companies that can compete in these price ranges...I just prefer the Axiom sound in this price range \:\) :).


Edited by Dr.House (09/23/08 10:10 PM)
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