Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Is it worth getting a headphone amp

Thanks.
Follow-up question: While wait for the info, a friend of mine sent me an email that he has a Mark I. Is there a huge difference between the Mark I and the Mark II?

I don't know. Haven't heard any of them. I think AdamP88 has a Mark II+. You might send him a PM.

If you check eBay, I think there is a link to a manufacturer's forum that will have more feedback on the different models. Also, you can try searching through Head-Fi.com to get more info.

http://www.little-tube.com is the webpage for the Little Dot line. It's really just a forum. It'd be nice if they had product pages with info, but they don't. There is a lot of useful info in the forums, but you have to dig a bit.

These things are unabashedly made in China. And yes, you buy them on fleabay. Just be sure you buy from davidzhezhe. He's the official seller. From my experience he is a good guy. I was *extremely* leery in ordering something directly from China. I had done a lot of research to make sure it was legit, but I was still nervous. But I was pleasantly surprised at how uneventful the experience was. Ordered. Shipped. Delivered.

David answered all of my questions very promptly and honestly, and even followed up a couple of weeks later to make sure I was enjoying the amp. We've had several email conversations since then about tube rolling and such. So I'd recommend you email him if you have any specific questions (differences between MK1 vs MK2, etc). Honestly, it was one of the better eBay experiences I've ever had. The shipping was expensive ($40), but I've had stuff shipped from 90 miles away that took longer than that amp did from Shenzou, China. I had it within about 4 days.

$200 felt like (and is, to most 'normal' people) a lot of money for a headphone amp, but I am quite pleased with the results and would do it again if something happened to this amp.

The best place for comparisons and unbiased discussion would probably be the head-fi amplifier forums. There are a few threads dedicated to the Little Dot line. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/

A quick follow-up to my last post....

Here's the direct link to the product descriptions.
http://www.little-tube.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=193&posts=2&start=1

From there you can link to info & photos about each model.

It would appear that you can also buy these directly from David as well and bypass fleabay all together, just contact him at his email address.

Thanks a bundle! I actually found it from your previous post (it was the first item in the forum). Also received some news from my friend. The Mark I uses a battery for transport duties (iPod and stuff). He's going to lend it to me next week.

In the meantime, he was going to buy the Mk V (solid state) for xmas. So I just bought it. If I like it, I keep it and if I don't, he'll buy it back from me. So, nothing to loose!

Thanks again for the info.

No problem. Happy to have helped!

Enjoy that Mk V! That's a beast of a headphone amp.

Thanks for the info on the Little Dot, it looks very interesting to start out with.


If you find the time I would like to hear what you think of it.



I also like the effect especially when used with detailed sounding speakers just didn’t have a secure enough job at the time I was shopping for my system to indulge myself. I’m also looking for a house right now and don’t want to skimp on my preferences this time around. Which is why I’m definitely going to get something I can use both for headphones now and integrate into my speaker system later.

Thanks for all the help lots to digest here already.
Dean

Small update on the Boosteroos gizmo and the Onkyo805 (since I said the result was "terrible"). I spent some time (a very long 2 hours) re-trying the tiny booster. I reduced the gain on the receiver by 17db and it started to sound right. It is hell trying to balance volume and gain between the HD650 direct or through the gizmo (a good 60 minutes of careful listening; not nice-and-objective SPL meter to help calibrate here!).

I will need a lot more tests to form any firmer opinion. So far, there seems to be better dynamics, but I am not yet convinced I have the proper difference in gain under control so it is hard to be certain that one is not artificially louder than the other. In any case, the difference so far is not enough to be worth the trouble (and the AAAA batteries) to use the Boosteroos (which does a marvelous job with the iPod) to supplement the 805, BUT, it does point to go times ahead for a proper amp using line-levels.

My friend is supposed to lend my his Little Dots Mk I mid next week; I will try both iPod config and receiver.

Newer update (a tad more numerical).

Goal: try to measure if there is an actual difference in dynamic range between the HD-650 direct to the receiver or through the Boosteroos "mini-amp" (both out of the headphone jack). (sound quality was NOT part of this experiment).

Measurement method: The best I could come up with with what I had at hand was to lay down the headphones on a thick mouse pad (to avoid reflections) and to put my SPL meter in between and never touch either during the tests.

Samples: I used last year some pink noise test tones from the Internet (does not recall from where) that were in 10db increments and in "double-mono". Here, I used 5 and setup the volume so that the middle one read 85db.

Other: tests interrupted twice when the fridge was in operation! (THAT's annoying!)

First pass (numbers rounded up):
SPEAKERS: 65 75 85 95 105 (40db)
BOOSTERS: 72 78 84 90 96* (24db)
STRAIGHT: 61 66 72 77 80 (19db)
(*) quite a lot of distortion at that level, which led me to reduce the volume until distortion was gone (3db less did the trick)

Second pass (-3b from first):
SPEAKERS: 62 72 82 92 102 (40db)
BOOSTERS: 69 75 81 87 93 (24db)
STRAIGHT: 58* 63 69 74 76 (18db)
(*) Getting close to the limit of 55db of my SPL meter

Conclusion: Since my measurement method was a bit lacking in proper tools, the numbers themselves (the absolute value) must not be used (in the sense that the difference in range between the headphones and the speakers cannot be judged from the 40/24 ratio). The only numbers that mattered to me were that the mini-amp seems to be following a linear curve (6db/10db) while the straight connection seemed to be peaking as the test tones got louder (and note that the peaks of a lot lower in loudness than their "boosted" counterparts).

By shifting -3db, I ended up with a better listening experience as the pianos were lower in volume and the fortissimos were more impactful. Considering the distortion at higher volume (there was some during huge fortissimos) and the AAAA batteries, it is still better to connect straight (pending experiments with the Little Dots, of course). I might try shifting by -6db to see.

The built-in pre-amp in the Onkyo 805 is actually pretty good, maybe just not meant for heavy headphones such as the HD-650. I will try the PXC-100 (32 Ohm) at some point and report. I am certain that HD-595 (50 Ohm) or Grados headphones would have no obvious need for separate amp.

Well, that's enough for me for now. Hope it wasn't too boring. Gotta go back to working!

"My only impressions is that they are niche market in the audiophile community and is riddled with questionable claims. Many claim headphone amps need breakin and this amp has a chocolaty midrange etc. This raises a big red flag to me personally."

Dr.House,

You're wise to be skeptical of many of the dubious claims made on sites like head-fi.org. I seldom do headphone listening anymore, and I do not own any dedicated headphone amplifiers so I'll reserve judgment.

I will say that it is the choice of the headphones themselves, their fit, and the quality of the original source recording that will make most of the significant audible differences in headphone listening. Recordings that I've found to be really superb over Axiom loudspeakers also sound excellent over good headphones--I use Grado SR125s if I do any headphone listening--and I've not heard significant differences that I could attribute to the circuitry in the solid-state preamps and other equipment I own that has headphone outputs.

These comments apply except to tube devices, where all sorts of anomalies may alter the frequency response, noise, and distortion. (Yes, 2x6, tube distortion can be heard by many listeners as a positive quality--a so-called "richness" or "warmth" in the bass that isn't present on the original recording. But it's still a distortion of what was intended by the recording engineer and producer.)

In other words, a tube headphone amp has the potential to color or change the sound quality like a tone control or equalizer. I don't want my playback devices, whether loudspeakers, electronics or headphones to color or alter what the musicians and recording engineers intended. The more neutral the links in the chain--the microphones, microphone preamps, storage device, playback device, amplifier and speakers or headphones--the better.

Listen, it's fun to experiment with retro technology, as Peter Chenowith so nicely described it. Little glowing tube filaments, shiny little chassis, these headphone tube amps are very pretty and much more fun to look at than the impersonal steel chassis and tiny ICs or circuit boards of a solid-state amp that sit there like a lump and don't appear to be doing anything.

The same nostalgia factor plays a huge role in the adoration of vinyl by a small niche of enthusiasts. I grew up with vinyl and I love the big LP jackets and their graphics. I've kept much of my vinyl collection--each disc is a kind of marker in my life, where I lived when I bought it, what my tastes were and so on--but I almost never play it for reasons I've written about at length both here and in various magazines.

Headphone listening is very intimate and sometimes very appealing. It's also a bit peculiar, because of the unnatural spread of sound through the middle of one's skull. It also largely precludes multi-channel playback, which can be stunning over a well set up surround system. Sometimes true binaural recordings made with a dummy head and headphone playback can be uncanny in their realism, but the sources and selection are terribly limited (I also went through a period of binaural recordings and headphone playback.)

But I encourage experimentation and it doesn't have to break the bank to play around with good headphones and tube or solid-state headphone amplifiers. Just beware of the ridiculous claims that are made, many of which contradict basic physics.

Regards,
Alan