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I was looking at Denons last night wondering if I should have gone over to that side instead of Yamaha.....Amazon has a pretty good deal on the 3808 for anyone that is teetering on a purchase decision.......

Hey, if the Yammy is doing what you need, don't look back. "What if" syndrome is a constant no matter what you buy. Even if you have the money to buy the perfect box every time, a new model will be out in a month. Why fret?

OK, brain, you hear what i just told Argon?
Must....believe.....own.....words...........

Murph,
Is there someplace where I can buy the Kool Aid you have been drinking?

They do? $1,699 isn't a good deal, that's full MSRP. Your local Best Buy Magnolia store probably has it for $1,399. And I've been told that if you call a few certain shops, you can get it for about $1,100.

And if the "deal" is that you get their $500, non 2.0 compliant, year+ old BluRay player for free, well, that's not much of a deal considering that Oppo's superior BR player will be out soon. If you're going to drop $1,700+ on a new AVR + BR combo, I'd far prefer an $1,100 3808 + a $500 Oppo BR player than a $1,700 3808 and their freebie. But that's just me.

I looked at it last night and it was list for $1699 but if you clicked on the "show price in cart" it went down to under $12something. To Murph's point, I was doing a what if and haven't been tracking to know what a good deal is, really. I had just seen it at J&R for $1699 and then Amazon at $1699 with a dramatic drop if you click on the cart button combined with the Blue Ray player. Seemed like a good deal. Particularly if the 2.0 compliance doesn't mean a lot to you?

Just checked back and the cart link that was there last night is no longer there. Or maybe I dreamt it all......

I'm going to say something really mean right now. I am a tech toy geek. I want every new feature and I am always trying to squeeze performance out of my stuff. But, I'm also pretty frugal, so I tend to exhaust all value from an investment before moving on. (Yes, I know those are conflicting traits. Thankfully I have multiple personalities. )

I bought my Denon AVR 3300 in 2000. At that time, it was very well received by the "bought-and-paid-for" critics. I have wanted a new receiver since the words HDMI and Dolby HD entered the lexicon. But I am so happy with the $1,200 I spent on the 3300, almost 9 years ago, that I just can't find an excuse to let it go yet. Other amps may sound better, but this thing has been a tank, and is used constantly in my primary and second zones. Not so many frills, but it runs my 4-6 ohm speakers, with heat, but otherwise without so much as a sweat.

I really hate to hear all the problems with Onkyos, and others, as I would love to branch out. (Always wanted a B&K!) But in a market filled with hype and passing fads, unless Denon has lowered its standards since 2000, their AVRs are truly a worthwhile investment. At this point, I'm simply figuring out if I want the 3000, 4000 or 5000 series, and when to pull the trigger.

Sorry Murph, I have to agree with your brain - it makes a compelling argument.

They all sound good to me in a show room. Still, out of all the recievers I've had over the years, Kenwoods, HK, Pioneers, I would take my current Yamaha anyday. I couldn't be happier with it.

If I had to complain I'd say it weighs too much and gets a bit hot, I had to cool mine with a fan.

Good to hear Yammy is making a good product. And I have to cool my Denon with a fan too, so I can't deduct points for that.

Ok....you forced it out of me....the whole reason for the what if....* brain is saying stop *.....I am closed to (finally) purchasing the Axioms. I actually ordered some of the vinyl samples on a "what if & WAF" this past Monday. Should be here Friday. The what if on the Yamaha is that it will not let me set different crossover points by mains, center, surround. It is all or none. Now, it will let me set the fronts to large and give them the full range. So....if you take Alan's advice it is set them all to 80 as a cross and be done with it. I read or heard on one of the videos that Ian does different crossovers for his mains. I am planning on getting the Epic 60 500 5.1.

Am I *now sweating profusely* putting too much thought (yes) into this. Will I care if they are all 80 and set to small? Will it overload the bass if I set the fronts to large?

BTW, I am imitating St.Pat Guy's style because I think it is funny (ha ha funny that is) the way he describes the physical motions going on behind his posts.....