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#256789 - 04/14/09 09:15 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: SirQuack]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
Randy,
I am just starting to understand that LFE is a separate channel. So I believe When my 1909 sets the subs LFE at 80Hz, that dedicated channel sends what ever LFE content the source BD (HD Cable?) puts out for a given scene/ action on screen. You guys clarify if I don't have the next part correct. All frequencies for each channel below it's individually set x-over (meaning full range from the x-over freq. and down) will be sent to the sub, in addition to the LFE signal being sent independently to the sub when ever an LFE signal is present.

So in my case I changed my M80's from Large and being auto set to full range (I assume because no x-over was listed), to Small, 80Hz x-over.

After above manual change:
M80 fronts 80Hz
VP150 CC 80Hz
QS8 sides 90Hz
QS8 backs 150Hz
Sub LFE 80Hz

For the non LFE base, the 3 subs will reproduce all frequencies below the 80, 80, 90, 150Hz x-overs respectively.

Any x-over above 80Hz was wigging me out before. But shouldn't my Paradigm Servo 15a produce a very accurate reproduction of the back's low range up to 150Hz?
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256798 - 04/14/09 10:11 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: davekro]
dewd Offline
local

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 200
Loc: Mechanicsburg, PA, USA
Set the LFE to at least 120 Hz. That is the highest frequency that should be in that channel (the .1). This is not a crossover, but rather a filter.

Everything else your sub plays is determined by the crossovers. In your setup, anything sent to the rear speakers below 150 Hz will be redirected to the sub (this not a brick wall, some below 150 Hz will play in the surrounds). Same thing for your other speakers. Anything below the crossover is sent to the sub.

Also, there probably won't be much lower bass in the back speakers. As I said before, mine are at 120 Hz and I've never been able to localize my sub. I would assume that I would if it was producing 120 Hz tones.
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Dave
Audyssey Setup Guide

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#256834 - 04/15/09 01:47 AM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: dewd]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
Dave,

Can you explain more why I should set the LFE to 120Hz (from 80Hz)?

1)My previous backs (5 1/4" direct firing woofer) were always set at 80Z by the 1909 and the sides to 60Hz (8"woofers).
I would set fronts to small, set all x-overs at 80Hz, LFE at 80 Hz.

2) With my current backs being set to 150Hz, why does the LFE need to change? Or, in your opinion, should the LFE be set for 1) above to 120hZ as well? Or, do you feel LFE should always be set to 120Hz.

I am now unclear again.
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256841 - 04/15/09 02:56 AM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: davekro]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
Dave, the setting of the LFE low-pass filter is relatively insignificant, whether it's at 80Hz or 120Hz. Theoretically, the separate(as you now understand)LFE channel which occasionally contains special low frequency effects during movies extends to 120Hz. However in practice the LFE channel contains little or no usable content above about 80Hz and most is well below that. A reason for possibly setting the LFE filter at lower than the maximum 120Hz is that some useless noise at the upper end might be minimized. Others say that the full 120Hz range should be set just in case something worthwhile is there. Your choice; I'd suggest leaving it at 80Hz.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#256880 - 04/15/09 10:47 AM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: davekro]
dewd Offline
local

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 200
Loc: Mechanicsburg, PA, USA
 Originally Posted By: davekro
Dave,

Can you explain more why I should set the LFE to 120Hz (from 80Hz)?



The specification for the .1 channel is for frequencies up to 120 Hz. Check out the Dolby definition:

 Quote:
LFE Channel

Low frequency effects channel, dedicated to frequencies from 3 to 120 Hz (the ".1" channel, so designated because it corresponds to about 1/10 the full audible range).



http://www.dolby.com/resources/glossary/index3.html
_________________________
Dave
Audyssey Setup Guide

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#256881 - 04/15/09 10:52 AM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: davekro]
dewd Offline
local

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 200
Loc: Mechanicsburg, PA, USA
 Originally Posted By: davekro

2) With my current backs being set to 150Hz, why does the LFE need to change? Or, in your opinion, should the LFE be set for 1) above to 120hZ as well? Or, do you feel LFE should always be set to 120Hz.

I am now unclear again.


Don't confuse the crossover with the LFE channel. They are completely separate things.

I suggest you leave the rears at 150 Hz, set the LFE to 120 Hz and listen to it for a few days.
_________________________
Dave
Audyssey Setup Guide

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#256893 - 04/15/09 11:52 AM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: JohnK]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
Now I am wondering if QS8's are not the best back 7.1 speaker option for my particular situation? Way back when I was deciding on what speakers to pick, it seemed there was (mostly) a consensus here that QS8s were a significant improvement over direct firing for side surrounds. For 7.1 backs there was a debate over direct firing vs. radiant firing for backs.

Given my back speaker location of mid ceiling with back wall 11' away and side walls/cabinets 6' and 4' away respectively, yielding a 1909/Audyssey x-over point of 150Hz, is there a better choice?
1) Is the QS8's designed sound dispersion to my listening position diminished significantly by this location in my large room? Is only producing above 150Hz to my listening position evidence of that

2) Might a direct firing speaker work better in this application, like the M2? The M22 would be quite quite large, visually, mid ceiling in kitchen and dining room.

Does anyone on the forum have QS8's mounted mid ceiling, that also uses Audyssey for room EQ? (Randy does not use Audyssey)


Edited by davekro (04/15/09 11:55 AM)
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256900 - 04/15/09 12:05 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: davekro]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Why don't you set the rears at 80hz and see if it helps any. If not, then you know 150 is fine. I don't think changing to a direct drive will change the issue you are raising, but that is over my pay grade.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#256902 - 04/15/09 12:12 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: Zimm]
davekro Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 562
Loc: Discovery Bay, CA
Charles, you get paid to do this? ! ?

I believe what Audyssey is telling me (doesn't Audyssey talk to you? ;o) is that what ever freq. below 150Hz the QS8 is putting out, it is not getting to my listening pos. due to my rooms dynamics. My next test will be to mount my old (M2 sized) backs in the same mid air position as Q's are now. When they were on the back wall, they got crossed at 80Hz. Trying them mid room should let me know if it is more (or all) due to the location or to the speaker type. Oh boy, more jury rig mounting to my 'custom' stands. After testing is complete, these custom stands will go up on Audiogon with other hi-end gear. \:D


Edited by davekro (04/15/09 12:20 PM)
_________________________
Dave

"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice they're not."

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#256906 - 04/15/09 12:15 PM Re: Speakers just arrived! Question. [Re: davekro]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17741
Loc: NoVA
You could always put the M60s back there and see if you like the sound better. I would wager that you won't. C'mon, dude, you've got an extra pair of speakers lying around, use 'em!


Edited by kcarlile (04/15/09 12:16 PM)
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