Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater M33 V2 As center channel

Micah, Just a note that you have 333 posts making you half-evil.

Back to your regularly-scheduled program.

Not evil, just "balanced".

I have actually found myself moving towards a more stereo output these days, the M60's just seem to do such a stellar job by themselves. And I've been listening to a lot more music them film the last few months. However, I am moving to my new apartment in two weeks (thank god), and will redo the complete set-up. Very excited for this opportunity.

The new media room will be even smaller, though, and I am going to be moving the M22's away from their current surround positions to a Zone 2 position. Which will leave me with the M60s, the VP150, and two surrounds of suspect quality in media room. But I suspect Micah is correct, and that in the new setup I will dial down the center channel just a tad.

Oofff, well let's take care of that right now shall we!

Ok Grunt I have to ask for a thorough discription of your center channel journey, as it seems most interesting.

You said you thought the M22 integrated more naturally than dis the VP150. This would seem to suggest that you prefer a more mild center channel personality. But that isn't exactly the case either since your future plans include moving back to using an M80 for center channel duty.

So can you expand on your impessions of the VP150 & why for you anyhow, it isn't the ideal match for the M80's?

My original Axiom order was 2 x M80s, 1 x VP150 and 2 x QS8s and I was in audio heaven. Then for some reason I ended up running a phantom center one day instantly noticed that the center channel sounded more dynamic and lifelike. I started some detailed listening tests and also noticed there was a noticeable change in the tone of male voices that panned from the VP150 to either of the M80 mains which wasn’t there when I was running a phantom center.

Experimenting more I found that the further I got the VP150 away from the screen the better it’s tone matched with the M80s but never quite as good as a phantom center. A recent post or article by Alan Loft that I now can’t seem to find explains what was going on. Basically that speakers in different positions will always have some tonal differences due to differing placement and what’s near them. However, no adjustments of the placement made the VP150 sound as dynamic as the M80s running in stereo nor should it have since the M80 is flat out a much better speaker.

I surmised and research seems to confirm that having a center speaker that’s identical to your mains will minimize the tonal differences which then get amplified (for lack of a better term) by differing placement. Some even recommend surround speakers be identical to your mains/center for accurate reproduction of 5.0 music. Though I’ve read good arguments that, and found for myself, purpose built multi-polar surround speakers work better.

Now knowing I would eventually want a third M80 as a center once I bought a house and want to upgrade to 7.1 I figured I might as well order the speakers sooner than later as the price was only likely to go up over time. So I made my second Axiom order of 1 x M80, 2 x QS8s and 2 x M22s with the intent of trying both the QS8s and M22s as surround back speakers and returning the losers. The QS8s won the surround back shootout but the M22s just sounded to good for the price to return.

Just so happened that the shelf (hell more like scaffolding) I’d built around my TV was both strong enough and left enough space to exactly fit an M80.

After much experimenting I found the following YMMV.

The best sounding center is running phantom M80s.

Second best is an M80 center (note that may change with the projector screen since no TV screen will be near the center M80 to colour it’s tone.

Third but very close was various M22 center configurations. In summary I found that with all crossovers set to 80Hz the M22 center was at least 95% as good as the M80 center. I did several blind A/B tests between the M22 and M80 center and only my friend who’s and audio engineer could consistently tell the difference. However, running 3 M80s crossed over at 60Hz or 40Hz seemed more dynamic than with the M22 center crossed at 80Hz. Hard to tell for sure since I had to change crossover settings and not just use the switch. Here are my first impressions when did the tests:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post218171

Fourth was the VP150 center

Last was the QS8 center. Don’t think I ever mentioned doing it but I figured I had to try.

I’ve taken a bit of flak for voicing my observation/opinion that the M80 and M22 centers match better than the VP150 to my M80 mains. I think the same tonal/dynamic differences can be said to exist with most if not all vertical tower + horizontal center configurations. Even though most people are slaves to conventional wisdom a goodly number will go unconventional if it means saving significant money. If any brand’s horizontal center which is usually less expensive than the corresponding towers sounded just as good as the towers you’d see many more people running 3 horizontal centers across the front and putting the savings toward something else. Face it…horizontal center speakers are a design compromise to allow them to easily fit above/below a screen and usually not ported like many of their vertical brethren so they work better in an entertainment center.

Just to reiterate I think the VP150 is a fantastic center speaker and had I not accidentally noticed how much more dynamic and tonally balanced the phantom M80s sounded to me I would still be blissfully ignorant. Unfortunately once I trained my ears to hear the difference it became very distracting.

Cheers,
Dean

Which is strange, because the evidence for why 3 matching speakers across the front make the best soundstage is well documented.

Dean. I'm glad that I came across you're and other posts before I bought my system.

Thanks Fred I appreciate hearing that you got something from it.



I agree, but it still didn’t stop me being accused of not knowing how to set up or calibrate my system. I think some people have thought I was slamming the VP150...on the contrary I feel I’m complementing the M80 and especially the M22. I also have a feeling I’m just more sensitive to and/or bothered by tonal differences than many other people.

I figured that when you said you could hear tonal differences in the QS8's.

Dean, maybe it's just that you don't know how to setup or calibrate your system?

::running...ducking::