Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Cable box audio setting

I would assume that this has been an issue here before but have not found anything that may help.

I bought a new TV last week. My AVR is a Yamaha RXV1400. It is about 6 years old and does not support HDMI. I was initially thinking a new AVR, but with help from this forum and seeing the prices to replace my AVR, I decided to bypass it and connect my cable box and Blu Ray directly to the TV via HDMI and run digital lines for audio to my receiver. (My receiver supports 5.1 analog, but not my cable box nor my Blu Ray, so this is currently my best audio option)

Of course one known drawback for this is when I switch between sources, I have to swith the AVR for audio and the TV for video. I am OK with this though for now.

Here is the problem that I have come across; When I swith from HDMI-1(cable) on the TV to HDMI-2(Blu Ray) to watch BluRay, the player recognizes there is an audio out and sends audio correctly to the AVR. BUT, when I switch back to HDMI-1 for cable viewing, the cable box attepts to use the HDMI for the audio signal. I have to go into cable box settings to correct the problem. Turning cable box on/off has no change, but between sources, I have to reset the cable box audio each time.

My question is, is there a way/shortcut/trick to avoid this? My cable box is a couple years old, I think, maybe a newer box would be more up to date to handle such a dilemma? (I have Time Warner)

Any suggestions?

Thanks for all help!

Jeff

Many TVs supports an optical audio out which contains the audio from the HDMI feed. If yours do, you could use that.

My TV does indeed have a digital audio out. This would take all audio from the source via HDMI to the TV, then to the receiver? I then wouldn't have to switch audio at all?!?

Exactly.

Test it with copy protected material (the sources with which I tried it -- and use it -- do not have copy protection).

I am currently trying out. I seem to be having difficulty. I suppose it is what you say about copy protected material. (currently Lord of the Rings in) It will not send the digital signal to the receiver because of this?

This makes me wonder why the digital out then?

Verify if you need to setup something in your TV's menu.
And try with a regular CD.

hmmm, unsure if I am missing something or not. I am getting a audio signal, though I cannot seem to get a digital audio signal.

I have checked TV settings and setup, seems to be nothing about confirming a digital out.

I have tried cable channels (confirmed HD content), DVDs and CD's. All the same results.

I can only assume the digital audio out is there when using component video or other video in, but not HDMI for whatever reason...

Like I said, the Blu Ray player seems to know what to do, the cable box does not. Maybe try a new cable box?

I appreciate your help EFalardeau. Any other ideas?

In your source (cable box, DVD player...) are you using "bitstream" or "Linear PCM" for HDMI audio out?

Blu Ray is bitstream. Cable box, I can find no info.

For blu-ray, make sure you select a format that is compatible with SPDIF (Dolby Digital, DTS) as it is doubtful that your TV can extract the core out of DTS HD:MA and DolbyTrueHD or pass 5.1 linear PCM.
Your cable box is probably using the same channel for HDMI or SPDIF.

I've come to the conclusion that I will not get a 5.1 digital signal from the TV to the receiver. I don't think the TV will even pass the 5.1 signal on to the receiver - probably downmixing it to 2-channel stereo (there's only 2 speakers in the TV, after all) and then passing that along to receiver.



I must admit, you lost me here...(alot of this is new to me)

Do you think that I may be correct that the cable box is incapable of making the correct recognition of where to send what signals?

Your cable box is probably sending the signal to its "preferred" location, but using the same settings for both optical/coax and HDMI. So you may not have a HDMI-specific setting so you probably get on HDMI whatever is sent to SPDIF.
Or, you either have a DVD which is fertilizer-friendly (crappy) or simply buggy.

For blu-ray, I was refering to the disk's (not the player's) audio track to see if one labelled "Dolby Digital 5.1" would work better than one labbel "DTS HD-MA".

My recommendation to you if to use component for your DVR. Component will give you 100% of the quality you get from cable and will not confuse the optical/coax digital out.

Another angle is to forget about troubleshooting and use a good programmable remote control. Simply program the extra few button presses into the macro for switching to the cable box and you never have to worry about it again.

Harmonies are the easiest to use but for added customization, I prefer the URC universal remotes. Either should solve your problem above and turn all your actions into just a single button press.

As far as I know most TV's will only output 5.1 from the digital out port when they are receiving OTA HD broadcasts. Otherwise it is sent over the digital out as 2 channel stereo.

I think the problem is that the cable box needs to be re-configured, not that the audio has to switched. But I may have misunderstood.

Throughout this discussion I didn't see you mention the brand of cable box you have. This might be helpful in your configuration process. I have one(Scientific Atlanta) that will output both HDMI video AND coax cable audio at the same time. In my case the HDMI "video" connection overrides all "video" in my set-up so even if I go in to the menu and change the audio to DD or "digital" from HDMI, the HDMI video connection will remain as is. I do have it hooked through a relatively new receiver which takes HDMI but generally speaking the cable boxes are quite behind the curve in being up-to-date on their connections(Usually only 1.0 HDMI compatibility). This configuration will ONLY allow 2channel audio through HDMI. I still have to hook coax through my receiver, much like you do because the HDMI audio from the cable box cuts in and out and is unreliable anyway, hence the dual connections. DD from television stations can come in many forms from 2 channel up to 5.1 and anywhere in between. Provided we can solve this audio cable box problem, you are still better off trying to hookup the audio from your cable box to the receiver as opposed to the optical out of the monitor.

I am sure there is something in the set-up menu that will allow what I described. The fact that you have the HDMI video connection going directly to the monitor shouldn't make any difference.

Let us know the brand and any manual you may have that can be referred to so we can then take it from there.

Just a follow-up to my last post. I just noticed Time-Warner is connected with Cisco Systems. Cisco OWNS "Scientific Atlanta". Let us know the model number of the cable box and we could be in business here in possibly solving this problem for you!

Thanks for all the replys.

Yes, I agree, the problem is in the cable box and configuration.

The cable box is a Scientific Atlanta "Explorer 8240HDC"

When I get a moment, I will look this up as well, I don't have a manual to view. (I'm putting groceries away with the wife :/)

This gets even weirder. At least to me.

With cable, receiver and tv on, just switching off the tv, then on again, will cause the cable box setting to default back to HDMI. I have to go back into the settings of the cable box and reset for digital. Turning off just cable box, changes nothing.

This makes no sense to me.

You should really consider using component for your video. That will solve your problem without any loss of quality or functionality.

Yes, I believe that is going to be the route that I go, but this is disturbing nonetheless.

When do you suspect cable would even broadcast in 1080p? That, I suppose is when this would become a prob again.

Just to add, I did reconnect the component video. Just to see what would happen, I plugged the HDMI cord back in and the box immediatly reset the AUDIO setting within. I just don't understand why it will not keep the setting you tell it to be on.

Reminds me of my teenagers...

I would imagine the box is set(not changeable) so that when it senses an HDMI cable the rest of the system shuts down forcing you to use the HDMI, gotta love that copy protection, stick with the component video.

Hi jfoxtrot,

As Jakewash has suggested, you'd be better off using the component video output from your cablebox. By the way, it will be years away before cable and the broadcasting systems go to 1080p because of the bandwidth requirements and the installed base of 720p/1080i broadcast equipment.

And don't assume that the HDMI connection will deliver better picture quality than component video. On my Scientific Atlanta box (8300HD), the component video output delivers a better image than the HDMI output into a native 720p display.

Regards,
Alan

I have the SA explorer 4250HD cable box which is similar to yours but without the PVR and cable card connections so the menu set-up should be similar if not identical.The set-up you are striving for "does work" in my system so we will have to look at the detailed settings. Firstly, since you are using the receiver for all your sound, I am assuming you have disengaged the TV monitor's speakers.

Next, going in to the "settings" menu, ie. pressing the settings button twice to get the detailed set-up menu in which you scroll up and down the left-hand side, check the digital audio out setting (it will show HDMI, Dolby Digital or other) confirm it is set to Dolby Digital NOT HDMI. In addition, your picture format setting (which should show Auto DVI, upconvert 1 and 2 and fixed) should be set to upconvert since that setting deals best with non-HD programming. 1080i HD channels will pass through as normal. Remember with any of these settings, you must press the "A" button to lock them in. As you notice when you plug in the HDMI cable for video it overrides any other video input. Obviously, the problem is with the audio and I am at a loss to explain why the TV would be affecting your cable boxes audio configuration. It doesn't make sense. HDCP generally only applies to the video and not the audio. There are many set-ups out there in which individuals have both HDMI video(out to a monitor) and coax or optical connections plugged through a receiver at the same time so the television shouldn't be affecting any of this.

At any, rate, see what your detailed connection set-up is currently reading and we'll see what happens and take it from there. This shouldn't be that complicated!!

I believe this is the case, although it frustrates me.



Thanks Alan, this makes me feel a little better.



Thanks Casey, I have done exactly this. The frustrating part is when I switch from one HDMI source to another or turn the TV off (????!) the cable box will switch that setting back to HDMI!

You're right, it shouldn't be this complicated. I have already switched back to component cable. BUT, I would love to solve the problem, just because, I agree, I am sure there are plenty of people running this type of setup with out the probs.

I'd also like to add, the Blu Ray player doesn't have this issue. It sends the audio out the digital audio, as it is told.

This is what befuddles me in that if the TV monitor was the culprit here it would have affected the Blu-Ray player settings as well, but it doesn't even though the hook-up is identical to the cable box! Certainly the component input will be fine and it certainly not a big deal one way or the other but it is interesting what is happening here. Did you attempt any of the detailed cable box menu settings I suggested in my previous post because I STILL don't believe the TV is the issue. Something in the cable box is not locking in the digital audio properly.

Like I said previously, these models should be able to send out the coax audio and HDMI video simultaneously without issue.

Casey, the TV was never part of the problem. There was a failed attempt at making it part of the solution, but it was not the bulk of the discussion.

Check this out.

I got to talk to one of the repair technicians for TWC this evening. He told me it was a software update/design intentionally! Something about too many service calls with people not having the setting right, so they made it so the box would make a recognition and decision and would not be able to be changed.

This explains why the box will not allow me to make a permanent change in the settings. I don't know if his statements are true, but why would he say this if it wasn't true.

SO, it is component cable for me. (I was already there.) Thanks to all who have tried to help me here. It really didn't make sense, but now it does.

Sorry, don't buy it for a minute. Does that mean they changed the software on ALL the HD boxes? I bought this 4250HD only a few months ago and I have already gone through the explanation of how it works and what it takes to set it up properly. If anything, his excuse and the "alleged" internal software changes creates MORE problems in the set-up not less. You have already experienced it. Remember, with the current limited audio capability of the HDMI connections( 2 channel max with sound breakups) on the existing line of cable boxes, even if you had an updated receiver, you would still, more than likely, have the same problem in trying to run the digital audio and HDMI video simultaneously through the AVR. As yourself and everybody said, in order to avoid the hassle, use component video.

It is important to note that unless you happen to run across an enthusiast, essentially any of the technicians at these cable or satellite companies know little or nothing about how these boxes interact with an A/V systems so you are basically wasting your time.

Sorry, you haven't been able to hook things up exactly as you wanted. We tried our best.

Casey, what you say is interesting. I really don't know whether what this guy told me is true or not. He did mention in our conversation that this may be a local software thing, that it didn't neccessarily pertain to all TWC customers or boxes.I have only assumed he would know or at least not state something as such. His statement would explain why I am having the very problems that I am having as it concerns to this box. Like already said, I can make all the changes in the cable box menu, but the box will change my settings back.

I do tend to agree with you on the level of knowledge,expertise or experience of many of these techs and/or tech support people.

I may still continue to dablle or even attempt to get a different box from TWC (model#) and see what I can come up with.

If anyone else comes up with any other ideas, please let me know.

Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff:

Sorry to go on and on about this and there certainly is more important things to worry about in the world today but since these cable boxes are supplied, in bulk, to the cable companies by outside manufacturers(in this case Scientific Atlanta), you can see the nonsense in the statement of a so-called "local software thing". By the way, if you haven't done so already, it might be worthwhile "googling" the various forums on the different models, in this case yours, to see what problems people have had and how they dealt with them.

If you have the capability and not have to spend any more money, perhaps a change of cable boxes would be in order. Give it try, you have nothing to lose. There is something wrong with a piece of equipment that won't lock in your settings especially when in other cases, such as my own, in that what you want to do has already been done.

I have done just as you suggested. It appears that this has been an issue in the past with this same box. I have read somewhere, which I now cannot find again, that someone has had success with the 4300 model.

I called TWC and they do have that model which I can upgrade to. The tech I spoke with on the phone seemed to understand my problem although could not give me an answer as to why this box will not keep my desired setting, but after several minutes on hold gave me 3 options which we have already discussed here. One of course was to use component cable, which I am and understand very well may be the better option, even over HDMI right now.

I guess the only reason I am still messing with this thing is, it is silly to me that in this day of technological advances, I cannot use HDMI to TV and digital audio out to my AVR with a fairly new cable box.

Maybe I am the fool for continuing to waste my time on this. I guess Casey and I do think alike here.

Well, scratch that 4300 model.


Turns out, this is indeed a TWC "upgrade" to their Navigator boxes issue. The more I read on this, the more I am finding TWC customers having the same issues with no fixes or TWC answers.

Sorry to hear that Jeff:

Very strange. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, the trouble with these cable boxes is they are well behind the curve in terms of up-to-date connections. The current units have only 1.0 HDMI capability(4 generations behind) which, even if you were successful in being able to hook it up, without the option of a simultaneous coax connection, you would STILL be limited to 2 channel audio.
It will probably be two or three years before they bring out 1.3 HDMI capable boxes and by then there will probably be some other upgraded version on the market.

Like I said before, with this limitation that they have placed on these cable boxes, aside from your Blu-Ray player,even a new AVR would be basically useless.

Sounds like a huge pain. I bought a Yamaha RX-V663 about a year and a half ago for under $400 from J&R. I agonized for a while over whether or not it would adequately drive the Axioms. I can assure you that I have had zero problems. I would go deaf long before I had any issues with the AVR. I realize this is a bit off topic - just thought you might be reaching the IDGAF state with TWC.

I am happy with my AVR and will not be replacing soon. Too much money for the very minimal advantage, if any that I would gain. (thanks Axiom forum for educating me)

I am happy with TWC. It has been dependable for me for many years. (cable, internet and phone) I just have to deal with someones ignorance in respect to whomever decided to program this box this way.

As already mentioned, it makes no difference to the picture anyway. Everything is broadcast at best 720p or 1080i anyway.