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#286252 - 01/10/10 12:04 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: bdpf]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3189
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi bdbf,

Regarding your listening comparisons at Axiom, if you want to isolate nuances between speakers, listen in stereo with no subwoofer. If you listen in 5.1, differences between the front main speakers are much harder to spot because there is so much going on in the room.

As FredK mentioned, you'll hear the difference in low bass output, both extension and amount of bass, between the 60s and 80s immediately. When I do blind tests, I write down phrases like "spectacular deep bass; is a sub running?" for the M80s.

The 80s are a tad smoother through the midrange on male and female vocals than the 60s or the M22s, but these are small differences, and the M22s are wonderful speakers.

The old M80ti was changed in 2003; prior to that we sometimes supplied resistors to owners of the ti to damp down tweeter output, but we stopped doing that after the M80 crossover was changed (the v2 wasn't added until several years later, in 2005 if memory serves).

There is a Holly Cole CD at Axiom; we use it in our listening tests. The track we use is "I Can See Clearly Now the Rain . .

Have fun tomorrow.

Regards,
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#286261 - 01/10/10 01:05 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: alan]
rvrrat Offline
buff

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 57
Loc: Iowa, USA
Just for fun, I turned off my sub, then went into my speaker setup and set my M80's back from a 55hz crossover to full range.
Then I played some excellent recordings from the likes of Steely Dan, Diana Krall, and Patricia Barber. Wow! I would swear that the sub was running. I had to doublecheck. Clear, clean detailed power. Awesome.

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#286287 - 01/10/10 04:54 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: rvrrat]
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
Still say when listening to music on CD ....no sub it sounds awesome on the 80's.

It comes down to your audition tomorrow, regardless of what anyone posts here, you will hear something different. Something is going to apeal to you more.
It will also , come down to if it is worth the extra $400. You have got to get that notion of the sub, outta your head. You are auditioning the mains and the fine and finer points of the speaker. Adding a sub in later on is a bonus to help the speakers, in home theatre to produce lower frequencies and a higher volumn level when it is called for.

Put it like this, if for some ungodly reason you crank on so lets say a great tune from a grweat Canadian band "Rush" tune and crank it up to the point in a song where the bass guitar and drum are really heavy. Chances are Neal Peart and Geddy are going to to make them woofers move and then distortion sets in and sounds like a cardboards paper fluttering and you walk out thinking this is crap, kinda like a teenager would do. lol
Now, at the same spot same volumn level turn on your sub EP800 or hell even a EP350 properly calibrated and setup chance are the *)'s are not going to be working hard, the lower frequencies have rolled off and the mega wattage is not being used by the amp to drive the woofers in the *)'s. Why, because I now gots a 600 watt 12" sub that is doing all this work( Heavy lifting ) and guess what, it is not even staining, because it can handle it, and guess what the whole setup is cleaner and even louder.
Where the 80's were a few minutes ago, trying very hard , it is now passing off the heavy work to the sub and where the 30 hz frequencies need volumn it has a partner to do it. As the 80 produce 30hz, that may well be but at what level as a whisper or a normal talking volumn I don't think they could yell at 30 hz. This is where the sub helps any speaker.

But, in 2.0 stereo take Diana Krall CD with you sit back close your eyes and enjoy no sub needed those low notes are a joy to hear on the 80's and her voice is beautiful in mids.

And if you want to hear how well a sub is or the 80's do at low ends .... Sound Gardens first song I think on the first CD, that song before that "Chica cherry cola" song has a very low rumble and bass that'll work at normal volumn

my 3cents
_________________________
HK 3490
M80 HG Cherry
2x Energy ESW10 Subs

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#286290 - 01/10/10 05:13 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: TroyD]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13339
Loc: Iowa
Even with my old m60's, I bet I had 3 in home auditions where the user kept asking me to turn the sub off, it was off. The m60's are great speakers for those that are undecided...
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#286292 - 01/10/10 05:42 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: TroyD]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11235
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
 Originally Posted By: troyd
Sound Gardens first song I think on the first CD, that song before that "Chica cherry cola" song has a very low rumble and bass that'll work at normal volumn


I think you mean Savage Garden. And I swear I only know that because I had an Australian e-pal who was in love with them for a while, before moving on to Oasis.

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#286293 - 01/10/10 05:42 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: SirQuack]
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
basically all I am saying is everyone has their opinions on what they like for sound. And what they want to spend. Some will think $400 more is worth it some won't as in previous posts.
also, it maybe a while before he gets a sub, and that is something that needs auditioning on it's own later. I just think get the best sounding speaker for the amount you want to spend.
Anyways .... I think it is better, to go a bit better, than a little less, than what you are willing to spend.

Case in point. if I went shopping and said I am only spending aproximatley $1200. Well, I have two choices $1000 m60 or $1500 M80. Well, once I hear them the M60's they are right in the ball park ...sound and $$$ value, however the M80's have a little better sound that I like but maybe not $300 extra. So, I'd probably go with the 60's.

However, if I said I will spend upto and have $1500 and auditioned the 60's, 80's and Studio 100's . I may like the 60's but really like the 80's and the extra is not an issue because I am prepared to spend %1500. However, I love the 100's over all, but at $1800 they are out of my range or over $1500 ( I know they are closer to $3000 )
Anyways this will be over with tomorrow ...or will it ;))


Edited by troyd (01/10/10 05:53 PM)
_________________________
HK 3490
M80 HG Cherry
2x Energy ESW10 Subs

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#286310 - 01/10/10 09:17 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: TroyD]
bdpf Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Thank you all for your wonderful advices. I can't wit until tomorrow. I will let you know what I thought of the whole experience.
 Originally Posted By: troyd

Anyways this will be over with tomorrow ...or will it ;))


I really hope so
_________________________
Bruno
M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890
------------------------------------
"The problem is choice..."

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#286311 - 01/10/10 09:19 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: bdpf]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6721
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Have fun!
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#286314 - 01/10/10 09:25 PM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: Wid]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
 Originally Posted By: wid

Have fun! (You future M80 owner!)

I know he was thinking it.

\:D
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#286346 - 01/11/10 07:32 AM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: RickF]
Argon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1443
Loc: Oak Ridge, NC
After Rick got me started by breaking out his M60's for fun, I played with my set up for fun - most of the afternoon yesterday. I broke out the Spears and Munsil disc that came with the Oppo and diddled with it for a while - then I dug out the DVE that I have had for several months. Embarrasingly enough, I had never found all the reference material until yesterday. Specifically, I found the 15-150 Hz sweep. The 500 kicks in immediately at 15 and really tons it out starting 20-22. I now had an easily repeatable sound sweep that allowed me to track down the annoying rattle that I hear when deep bass kicks in during a movie. I put the disc on repeat and began searching. I had to get right in front of the 500 to discover it was the frame of an album cover. What really got me, though, was how much air the 500 was moving - it literally caused my pants to flutter in the breeze! Tonight, time permitting, I am thinking about running the same sweep with the sub off so that I can get an idea of when the 60's would kick in.
_________________________
"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Churchill

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