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#306958 - 05/17/10 07:01 PM Re: Auditioning Axioms In Your Area [Re: grunt]
woodsart Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 05/13/10
Posts: 11
 Originally Posted By: grunt
I played my M80s for two hours at 100dB from 11-12 feet w/o shutting down or clipping my Onkyo 3007. I did get it to shut down five minutes later by bumping it up to 105dB. I never got my Denon 2807 to shut down with my M80s but I couldnít push it as hard because it would start clipping.

The shutdowns Hay is talking about are specific to certain Emotiva amps mainly the XPA-2 AFAIR. Emo claims itís because the M80s dip down to 2ohms, however I donĎt see aht in the impedance graphs. I believe at least one Emo owner here had his XPA modified by Emo with a different protection circuit so it doesnít suffer the shutdown problem. AFAIK not all Emo amps have this issue with the M80s just one or a few.


Grunt, I originally was going to use my 806, because I was told by Onkyo it would be fine, just change the ohm setting, but as I read, it began to worry me and thus stumbling on Emotiva, my bad. But, I do believe it will improve my current system considerably. The 806 doesn't do a bad job at that. And in your first statement is pretty much what I have read in all the forums with shutdowns and clipping.

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#306960 - 05/17/10 07:10 PM Re: Auditioning Axioms In Your Area [Re: woodsart]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
A few years ago itís my understanding that some low end receivers particularly Onkyos had a reputation for shutting down with the M80s but I donít think that has been a problem for some time. I myself was still afraid of this which is why I put my 3007 through that stress test to see what it could handle.

I think most people do great with Emo amps even those who have M80s. As with most things on the internet things get blown out of proportion because complainers always outweigh those who praise. Itís just something you should be aware of so you can consider it and maybe even ask Emo if they can mod your amp.

I would actually be more worried about driving a Denon receiver hard with the M80s since they donít in my experience shut down as easily making it easier to damage your speakers.

Cheer,
Dean
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#306962 - 05/17/10 07:24 PM Re: Auditioning Axioms In Your Area [Re: grunt]
woodsart Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 05/13/10
Posts: 11
 Originally Posted By: grunt
A few years ago itís my understanding that some low end receivers particularly Onkyos had a reputation for shutting down with the M80s but I donít think that has been a problem for some time. I myself was still afraid of this which is why I put my 3007 through that stress test to see what it could handle.

I think most people do great with Emo amps even those who have M80s. As with most things on the internet things get blown out of proportion because complainers always outweigh those who praise. Itís just something you should be aware of so you can consider it and maybe even ask Emo if they can mod your amp.

I would actually be more worried about driving a Denon receiver hard with the M80s since they donít in my experience shut down as easily making it easier to damage your speakers.

Cheer,
Dean


Dean, I have heard of a review (by Ninja)...would love the make that name smaller here. I'd like to know where the discussion is in the Axiom thread.

Wish you were near Richmond. I am antsie about hearing the M80s. JC is trying to arrange an audition in Tampa where I will be next week. I have been encouraged to listen to the M60s as well.

Thanks,
Rob

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#306963 - 05/17/10 07:25 PM Re: Auditioning Axioms In Your Area [Re: grunt]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

If you do drive the M80s with ANY receiver make sure to leave the ohm setting to 8 or in Onyko's case 6ohm.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#306992 - 05/17/10 10:34 PM Re: Auditioning Axioms In Your Area [Re: woodsart]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10388
Rob, welcome. As Rick(Wid)pointed out, the lower ohm setting on a receiver should never be used. This is a fire safety type of precaution required by UL(Underwriters Laboratories)to help prevent overheating. It does this by reducing the voltage output of the power supply section of the receiver. Following Ohm's Law, when the voltage is reduced, so is the current and power. Lab tests show that the maximum power capacity is cut roughly in half. So, the possibility of overheating is reduced, but at the expense of maximum performance capability. The default 8ohm(or whatever the high setting is designated)setting should never be changed.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#307037 - 05/18/10 10:38 AM Re: Auditioning Axioms In Your Area [Re: woodsart]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
 Originally Posted By: woodsart

Dean, I have heard of a review (by Ninja)...would love the make that name smaller here. I'd like to know where the discussion is in the Axiom thread.

Wish you were near Richmond. I am antsie about hearing the M80s. JC is trying to arrange an audition in Tampa where I will be next week. I have been encouraged to listen to the M60s as well.


I believe this is the thread you are talking about Rob.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post252179

However, IMO to understand it you need to know the context which also lead to this thread:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=229651&fpart=1

Which all got started by a thread I canít find right now were a person who liked what the Ninja crossover did for his M22s posted that here on the Axiom forum. Misunderstandings and IMO some fanboyism ensued eventually leading to the Ninja leaving the forum a tad pissed off.

Understand that just offering to sell his crossovers here on the Axiom site is a violation of site rules which allow no selling with the occasional exception for legitimate charities. Despite this Axiom let the thread continue but like I said the way some things were said lead to the general impression that he was saying those stock M22s you all bought sound like crap but will sound great if you buy my crossover for 2/3 the original price of the speakers. I saw this same thing come up over at the TCA website were people got pissed at his poor choice of words which basically sound the same, that the stock (I think it was an AV123 speaker in that case) sounds like crap w/o his aftermarket crossover upgrade, though I think he smoothed that one over in the end.

Personally I donít pay any attention to reviews of speakers done in internet forums unless I have read the reviewers opinion on many different things, have some common basis for comparison, and feel that they are evenhanded in their opinions. So basically I stick to professional reviews with a few exceptions made for people whoís opinions Iíve come to respect by reading their comments over a long period of time.

Having just said you should take forum reviewers with a grain of salt ;\) , if youíre curious Sean (St_PatGuy) and I recently listened to my M80s in two different rooms and in one of them compared them with his Odyssey Loreleis.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=18571&Number=305734#Post305734

AFAIK Axiom estimates return shipping for a pair of tower speakers is about $60 so if you can afford that then. Also AFAIK if you try out the M60s but for some reason want something that can play louder and from what Iíve read likely sounds a little more forward then you can upgrade to the M80s within 30 day an Axiom will cover the return shipping. Should you choose to then return the M80s you would be on the hook for shipping them back.

Iím curious if you have decided yet what sort of speaker sound you are looking for? IMO the M80s are forward in their presentation causing the soundstage to sound like itís coming out toward you, and similarly produce a more ďwall-of-soundĒ type effect than many other speakers that might be considered more laid back. I like this sort of sound both for music and especially movies. However, IMO speakers that sound like this are often more finicky about placement in that more laid back speakers IMO have a wider range of placement over which the sound good. OTOH forward speakers have IMO a narrower range of placement where they sound good but when placed well sound better. But I am biased to like forward sounding speakers which is why I was looking at B&W, Focal, Paradigm and eventually bought Axiom.

Cheers,
Dean
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#307052 - 05/18/10 11:49 AM Re: Auditioning Axioms In Your Area [Re: grunt]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17775
Loc: NoVA
Another possibly redeeming tidbit for Ninja (although I honestly don't know why I want to give him even that little bit) is that he reviewed M80tis. From my conversations with Alan and Ian, I know that the v2s were a significant improvement, particularly over the earlier tis.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#307525 - 05/21/10 02:05 PM Re: Auditioning Axioms In Your Area [Re: grunt]
woodsart Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 05/13/10
Posts: 11
 Originally Posted By: grunt
 Originally Posted By: woodsart

Dean, I have heard of a review (by Ninja)...would love the make that name smaller here. I'd like to know where the discussion is in the Axiom thread.

Wish you were near Richmond. I am antsie about hearing the M80s. JC is trying to arrange an audition in Tampa where I will be next week. I have been encouraged to listen to the M60s as well.


I believe this is the thread you are talking about Rob.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post252179

However, IMO to understand it you need to know the context which also lead to this thread:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=229651&fpart=1

Which all got started by a thread I canít find right now were a person who liked what the Ninja crossover did for his M22s posted that here on the Axiom forum. Misunderstandings and IMO some fanboyism ensued eventually leading to the Ninja leaving the forum a tad pissed off.

Understand that just offering to sell his crossovers here on the Axiom site is a violation of site rules which allow no selling with the occasional exception for legitimate charities. Despite this Axiom let the thread continue but like I said the way some things were said lead to the general impression that he was saying those stock M22s you all bought sound like crap but will sound great if you buy my crossover for 2/3 the original price of the speakers. I saw this same thing come up over at the TCA website were people got pissed at his poor choice of words which basically sound the same, that the stock (I think it was an AV123 speaker in that case) sounds like crap w/o his aftermarket crossover upgrade, though I think he smoothed that one over in the end.

Personally I donít pay any attention to reviews of speakers done in internet forums unless I have read the reviewers opinion on many different things, have some common basis for comparison, and feel that they are evenhanded in their opinions. So basically I stick to professional reviews with a few exceptions made for people whoís opinions Iíve come to respect by reading their comments over a long period of time.

Having just said you should take forum reviewers with a grain of salt ;\) , if youíre curious Sean (St_PatGuy) and I recently listened to my M80s in two different rooms and in one of them compared them with his Odyssey Loreleis.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=18571&Number=305734#Post305734

AFAIK Axiom estimates return shipping for a pair of tower speakers is about $60 so if you can afford that then. Also AFAIK if you try out the M60s but for some reason want something that can play louder and from what Iíve read likely sounds a little more forward then you can upgrade to the M80s within 30 day an Axiom will cover the return shipping. Should you choose to then return the M80s you would be on the hook for shipping them back.

Iím curious if you have decided yet what sort of speaker sound you are looking for? IMO the M80s are forward in their presentation causing the soundstage to sound like itís coming out toward you, and similarly produce a more ďwall-of-soundĒ type effect than many other speakers that might be considered more laid back. I like this sort of sound both for music and especially movies. However, IMO speakers that sound like this are often more finicky about placement in that more laid back speakers IMO have a wider range of placement over which the sound good. OTOH forward speakers have IMO a narrower range of placement where they sound good but when placed well sound better. But I am biased to like forward sounding speakers which is why I was looking at B&W, Focal, Paradigm and eventually bought Axiom.

Cheers,
Dean


Thanks, Dean...I knew you guys would be able to comment and that you knew already about the N.....guy. I do have the URL with pics of that review if you are interested in reading it. The man doesn't seem half bad. The review or dissection of the 6.1 was disturbing and I for one was very excited....but not that this has lessened my interest.

However, no one in the Richmond area or Tampa area has contacted me yet to hear them, of course they may be too busy for the moment, but JC said he may be contacting me soon, however I leave for Tampa tomorrow the 22nd. I will have my laptop with me. So, hopefully I will hear soon.

Anyways I will be auditioning The Swan line while I am there-All have good reviews and they are similar in price, maybe a little less.

I really don't know whether or not the 60s or the 80s will suite my needs. My room is large and I probably will have to submit a layout to somebody to get help. It is a square room and an odd layout. probably about 3800 cubit feet. That is why I thought I needed the 80s. I do watch more movies that listen to music, but it is maybe I'm particular about the SQ in audio. My wife told me I was becoming a video snob. I think it is referred to as an audiophile!!! I may not be that, though.

Well I will be checking out this thread again today. Thanks again for your comments.

Blessings,
Rob

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#307527 - 05/21/10 02:17 PM Re: Auditioning Axioms In Your Area [Re: woodsart]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6609
Loc: It's all about the location.
Woods, I can almost assure you that regardless of what speakers you end up choosing, whether they be Axiom or another brand...if they are a quality speaker that sounds "true", you'll be listening to more music than you originally expected or intended. That certainly was my case, and many others here as well. Good luck with the auditioning!
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#307532 - 05/21/10 03:09 PM Re: Auditioning Axioms In Your Area [Re: SirQuack]
2packer Offline
buff

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Wisconsin
Just wanted to say thanks for Merchman for having me over to audition his M80's. Very nice speakers. Was pleasantly surprised how great they sound even without a sub hooked up to them.

I also brought along my M22's. When hooked up only about 1 ft outside the M80's that was a very nice widened full sound stage when played together.

Now, if I could find someone locally who has some M60's to listen to.

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