Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M22Ti Distortion at higher volumes

Hi,
I've owned a pair of FO M22Ti's since March. I've been using them with a Denon 2802AVR and a Sony DVD changer in my dorm room. I'm now back at my parents house for the summer and I've had the opportunity to turn the volume up a bit more in a larger room. The Denon's volume control goes from -70 up to +18db and I was very disappointed to find that the sound gets very distorted around +04 or +06. The only thing I can guess is that it's the 12 guage Radioshack wire with bare wire connections are the binding posts. I tried switching to what I think is some old generic 16 guage wire to better position the speakers; that didn't seem to make it better or worse. I'm using a digital coaxial connection between the DVD player and the Denon, which I don't think matters. The reciever is rated at 90 watts per channel and the M22Ti's are rated up to 200 watts. I just assumed with that, even with the dynamic power requirements of playing music, it would be distortion free no matter how much I turned it up. If anyone could provide me with any insight on my situation I would appreciate it.
Thanks in advance,
Matt

Matt
here's my take. The M22's are rated at being able to handle up to 200 watts, not a constant push of 200 watts. That would make them EXPLODE!

putting your amp up to +04, +06 is a very high volume. Denon amps are excellent at pumping clean volume, but once you get into the +#'s, you're really pushing your amp. At this point, the current it starts sending can get dirty or muddy, or even worst, it could clip and damage your tweeter.
I have the 1602 (the little brother of the 1802), and it's rated at 70 wpc, and it goes from -60 to +10. I find anything past -10 is too loud to listen to, and it does distort at these volumes. Some recordings that are more dense will distort at -15 or so.

I doubt it has anything to do with the wiring, unless the binding posts are not screwed properly. I, too, barewire them.

What kind of music are you playing through them? Do you have the speakers set at large? Personally, i love the sound of the M22's at large, but I have to keep the volume lower at this setting, otherwise it distorts quicker. If you are listening to bass intensive music with the speakers set at large a +04, then, yes, it will distort. Setting them to small will reduce this.

post back if you tried my suggestion and it didn't work!

If your volume control is that high, you are probably driving your preamp to distortion. Check the output of your source. Most likely something's funky between your source unit and amplifier. I can't get my M22's near that setting and they play remarkably loud and clean.

Thanks guys,
I've fiddled with it a bit more today. I'm not sure exactly what your saying about the preamp distortion. I'm pretty sure it's not the source output; my Sony NC600 DVD player turns off any local decoding of the source when using a digital output, and my digital coaxial cable is properly rated.
I've been thinking about the power ratings. 200 watts is probably the maximum peak power the M22Ti's are designed to handle and the Denon can probably push beyond that at times since 90 watts is its continuous rating. Setting the speakers to small instead of large makes it take up to +10 or so to distort, but the loudness seems reduced. So I can't say I know exactly what's going on still, but they play plenty loud before distortion sets in so its not a big deal. I just wanted to be certain that I had my system set up properly and I can't find anything wrong.
If I make any great discoveries, I'll let you know.
Thanks again,
Matt

mdm

One possibility: You haven't said anything about any possible tone control settings. If by chance you have the bass boosted by any significant amount, then the amp would (or could - depending on source material) start to clip at a "lower" volume setting, thus causing the possible distortion at high speaker volumes. Just because a speaker is rated at 200w - doesn't mean that it and play really loud at ALL frequencies.

If you continue to have problems that you can positively identify as originating from the lows, then you might want to get a powered subwoofer to take some of the very low frequency load off the m22s.

Good Luck

Randyman

Hi Matt,

You've got to understand that "maximum power handling" is just a rough estimate of the maximum amount of clean, undistorted power the speaker can absorb without being damaged. This says nothing about what the speaker will sound like at such high levels.

Speakers are electro-magnetic mechanical reproducers, and as power is increased, the voice coil (that's the speaker's motor) may be forced out of its linear range of travel. It then becomes somewhat uncontrolled, distortion increases, and the tonal accuracy changes. It's called dynamic compression, and we used to measure it in Canada at the National Research Council. The frequency response of the speaker actually changes (in one famous English speaker, the plastic dome tweeter actually began to melt. When power was reduced, the dome tweeter assumed its correct shape again and the speaker sounded decent once more).

Despite its excellent dynamic capability in a medium-sized or small room, the M22ti, like all speakers of modest size, has limitations. If you boost the bass at all and try and fill a large room, a compact speaker's distortion will rise to audible levels (above 1 or 2 %). THAT is a signal to TURN DOWN THE VOLUME! Every speaker has different symptoms when you reach these levels. Some sound "edgy" or "harsh"; others with cheap drivers may actually snap or click as the voice coil hits the magnet structure! (not the M22ti, incidentally!)

Moreover, all volume controls on preamps, receivers, and integrated amps have different "tapers", which means the control may "open up" very quickly, even before the halfway setting, sending the amp section into clipping long before the volume control is moved past the halfway point. I think that's what's happening in your case, Matt (or a combination of the aforementioned factors).

It's sneaky, but some brands use these fast-taper controls, because on the sales floor, one receiver may sound "louder" than a competitor, with its volume control at only a 10 o'clock setting. The customer thinks that brand has "more power", when in fact it may not. It might be close to clipping. But the sales guy makes the sale and the customer thinks that the receiver will continue to produce more power as he turns up the volume control.

Regards,

Due to the fact that music, or any recording short of straight pink noise or a constant tone, will have dynamic peaks. The volume you can go to on an amplifier will be limited by these peaks and the amount of dynamic head room the amplifier has to handle them. The Denon receiver we have at our lab, on normal source material, goes into clipping above +04 on the volume control. This would seem pretty consistent with what you are finding also. I think if you want more output you will need a larger amplifier.

I have an Denon 1801, 70WPC and run have run it at higher volumes w/out distortion on my M22tis. That being said, I have exp a bit of distortion at the higest levels. Well, I live in an apt so I rarely if ever would run it at that high of a level anyway.

Point I am going to make is this, buy a sub (I have the Sony SAWM40, $140 + cost of 1 bag of polyfil to make it a bit tighter), and set those M22s to small. With HT and Music it sounds great. Let's face it the M22 is best at mids, and highs, I bought them knowing this and love them for it. Let a sub handle the lows (the M22s do blend very well with the sub). You will be very happy with the results.