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#405145 - 06/06/14 02:25 PM Re: Large TV Advise [Re: INANE]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5876
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
The way I understand it is, yes, the TV supplies extra frames, which is 1 or more intermediate frames between every 2 frames received. This enhances the motion flow, that others describe as the Soap Opera Effect.

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#405147 - 06/06/14 03:03 PM Re: Large TV Advise [Re: INANE]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1029
I've had a Sony XBR 50" LCD Rear Projection from 10 years ago that was replaced last year with a high end Sony 55 LCD, plus a lower end Sony 40" LCD in our bedroom.

I've never seen 'motion blur' on any of them. It just doesn't happen as far as I can see...

TAM

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#405148 - 06/06/14 03:28 PM Re: Large TV Advise [Re: tomtuttle]
oakvillematt Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 187
Loc: Oakville, Canada
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Wait, I don't understand, but I want to.

Are you saying that the frame rate for the native signal we get from "providers" is ALWAYS less than the native frame rate of even a 120Hz TV?


YES.

And if you are watching Actual TV, they send at 1080i, so you are only getting 30 full frames per second in an interlaced format. So first field is the even lines, the next field is the odd lines at 60Hz.

Most BluRays are recorded at 25Hz, But as the LCD TV is all digital, it can refresh at any rate it feels like. So there is no 4:3 sync BS with adding in extra frames to match a fixed refresh rate like old TV's. No, the TV just changed is rate to a slower 25Hz to match the BluRay.

With the faster TV's you are paying for either it to re-paint the same image on the screen 2, 4 or 8 times more than it needs to, or the TV has to make up what it thinks are the frames between what is has NOW and what it thinks it will get 16ms from now for TV or 40ms for your BluRay.

Now an IPS pannel were once much slower than a TN or PVA, but the speeds have caught up. so the newer IPS and its iterations can now transition between 5ms to 11ms depending on the colour change extremes.

Back when LCD first came out, the transition times were in the 40-60ms range, and YES there were issues with ghosting. The marketing teams use this to sell you a feature that you will never really use.
_________________________
Matt

People are like a box of chocolates. It's hard to tell initially which ones are nuts.

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#405149 - 06/06/14 04:11 PM Re: Large TV Advise [Re: exlabdriver]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5876
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
I've had a Sony XBR 50" LCD Rear Projection from 10 years ago that was replaced last year with a high end Sony 55 LCD, plus a lower end Sony 40" LCD in our bedroom.

I've never seen 'motion blur' on any of them. It just doesn't happen as far as I can see...

TAM


That's odd because I'm always seeing motion blur. Currently have a Panasonic 65 inch VT50 plasma. It's supposed to be one of the best for eliminating motion blur, but I see it all the time. Before that, I had a few LCD's. Didn't notice a lot of blur with them, probably because they were smaller.

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#405150 - 06/06/14 04:21 PM Re: Large TV Advise [Re: INANE]
Serenity_Now Offline
local

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 217
Loc: PEI, Canada
Is it film based material? Normal I think at 24fps to have blur in wide angle pans etc.

HD sports is where motion blur is introduced by an LCD and not plasmas. Plasma FTW!

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#405151 - 06/06/14 04:49 PM Re: Large TV Advise [Re: CatBrat]
oakvillematt Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 187
Loc: Oakville, Canada
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
That's odd because I'm always seeing motion blur. Currently have a Panasonic 65 inch VT50 plasma. It's supposed to be one of the best for eliminating motion blur, but I see it all the time. Before that, I had a few LCD's. Didn't notice a lot of blur with them, probably because they were smaller.


And there lies the crux. If the source material that you are watching has motion blur in it, then your TV will display that blur in full vivid colour. (assuming it's not a black and white movie)

It doesn't matter how much over sampling, high refresh rate or up-conversion to 4K video is done.. if the source is blurry, then you will see it. And with the new HiDef 1080p that we have, our eyes can now see that blur clearly, where as before in 480i (240 lines of actual resolution) you were lucky if you could even see any detail from the TV. Think non HD netflix on a dial up modem internet connection. The TV's were small enough that our brains compensated.

The TV's of today are like our beloved Axiom speakers. They show you everything, warts and all. But give them a well recorded source, and you will be swept away to nirvana.
_________________________
Matt

People are like a box of chocolates. It's hard to tell initially which ones are nuts.

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#405152 - 06/06/14 04:55 PM Re: Large TV Advise [Re: Serenity_Now]
oakvillematt Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 187
Loc: Oakville, Canada
Originally Posted By: Serenity_Now
HD sports is where motion blur is introduced by an LCD and not plasmas. Plasma FTW!


If I was to do a blind A/B comparison between a good quality LCD vs a good quality Plasma, I bet you could not tell the difference.

I have a PVR and have recorded fast action sports and went searching for blured sections on playback. This is 1080i direct recording in .TS format, exactly what you will see in HiDef on your TV. The actual frames that were blurry it was totally the source material. Everything else I could not get a single ghost or blur or artefact from the LCD tv not being able to keep up.
_________________________
Matt

People are like a box of chocolates. It's hard to tell initially which ones are nuts.

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#405154 - 06/06/14 06:24 PM Re: Large TV Advise [Re: INANE]
Serenity_Now Offline
local

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 217
Loc: PEI, Canada
Perhaps you are right.

But in any BB or Futureshop you can view the same demo reel on 20+ TVs and see the differences. The blind test stuff doesnt really translate into stuff you look at to apreciate. Jk. smile

You gotta be a little silly to not see a panny plasma as superior in a store setting beside an LCD. Kinda easy, no? I mean, CNET didnt become the goliath they are by guessing at this stuff.

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#405155 - 06/06/14 07:17 PM Re: Large TV Advise [Re: INANE]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1029
When I go into a store & look at a wall of TVs, I definitely cannot pick out a plasma among a sea of LCDs - they all look pretty well 'similarly good' to me.

What is most striking IMO is the different 'torch modes' that different manufacturers use to display their wares in a retail environment, settings that should never be used in a HT...

TAM

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#405156 - 06/06/14 07:27 PM Re: Large TV Advise [Re: INANE]
1sweetspot Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 173
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta
I prefer plasma and have 2 Panasonic Vieras. To me they seem so much more life like. Plus I can't stand the motion flow effect of the interpolated frames on an LCD boasting 120 or 240 hz. Reminds me of "Littlest Hobo"or a British documentary.


Edited by 1sweetspot (06/06/14 07:27 PM)

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