Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Having Possible Second Thoughts

OK.....After lurking around here and posting a few things, I have recently purchased the following set: M22i, VP150, QS4. I bought them from the factory outlet, so I have a couple of months to go until they arrive.

The one problem w/ long shipping times is that it gives you time to think. To add to that, the other day, I took a lunchtime jaunt to Best Buy to exchange my scanner. While I was there, I did my usual run over to the speaker rooms to putz around. Actually, I was focused on hearing the Athena line out of curiosity (AVS Posts). I didn't bother with the floor-standers. I kicked on the bigger of the two bookshelf models (AS-B2 I think) with that jazz track they have on there. I was surprised by how good they sounded. I was even more surprised when I realized that they sub that was previously on had kicked off when I made the switch. These things were punching out a lot of bass for a bookshelf. One of the BB guys walked up and told me that they have a pretty big bass sweet spot if positioned correctly in reference to the wall.

OK....so, I go back to work, but the back of the brain is running pretty hard now. I just purchased a set of speakers w/out ever hearing them. Are they going to sound "that much" better than what I just heard? I could have picked the Athena setup for about 2/3 the price of the Axiom setup.

So, to shut the voice up, I figured I'd get some opinions from those probably most able to contribute. Has anyone ever heard a side-by-side w/ the M22s and these Athenas...or any Axiom/Athena comparison? If so, please provide your opinions. Is the extra 50% in cost worth it?

As with any big purchase, the waiting period is the worst when it comes to buyers remorse and second-guessing. Thanks in advance for your input.

I've also been to BB, and I looked at the salesman and bluntly asked him what the best speaker in the store is? He replied that the Athenas were by far the best. So, I listened to them and I listened to the Yamaha NS line up, along with the JBL n38s. To my ears the Yamaha NS-555 sounded better. I wasn't that impressed with the Athenas. I ended up returning the Yamahas a couple weeks later, the old ear fatigue issue. So, I ordered the m22s. It is my belief that the Athenas cannot touch these. This isn't even a competition. Once I heard my m22s I came to the decision that bass is overrated.

Give that voice some medication.

I listened to the big floorstanding Athenas and thought they were pretty good for the money. BUT after hearing the transparency and detail of the Axiom M60, there is no comparison. I did NOT do a side-by-side; those are just my impressions.

It is a physics problem. The Athenas are quite a bit bigger form factor than the Axiom counterparts. Big enough to generate a increased sense of bass, but still insufficient to produce the "real" bass that you get from a subwoofer. You simply cannot get enough bass for satisfying HT without a sub, regardless of speaker placement or box size.

Littleb's comment is telling also; I think BB is trying to sell this line pretty hard, and I think their motives are not necessarily pure (gasp!).

M22 plus a good sub is a formula that many, many people are absolutely delighted with for both HT and music. The other thing to keep in mind is that having a matched set of speakers makes good sense, and the Athena surrounds are simply not up the design standards of the Axiom QS series.

I'd keep the Axiom order. After they arrive, you could always audition the Athenas next to them to make sure. But I would bet you'll keep the Axioms.

In reply to:

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You simply cannot get enough bass for satisfying HT without a sub, regardless of speaker placement or box size.

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Good point on the sub. It really is a must for HT.

I find most speakers generally sound pretty decent until you get to compare them side by side. I listen to my old system and think it still sounds pretty good for bookshelf speakers. Then I listen to my M22's and this just reminds me how much better the axioms are. I haven't heard the Athenas but I would bet they are not as good the M22's. I have heard a set of NHT bookshelves which sounded pretty clear and detailed. Then we tried the Axiom's, just that much cleaner. Well worth the money.

Well for 1 thing i notice that u aren't using a Sub? well the Mi 22's need a Sub an then u will have ur Bass an all the Detail also i have a Shanny ole Radio Shack Sub an it sounds pretty dang good paired with the Mi 22's i can only imagine how they would sound with an Hsu or an SVS but don't give up on them , i have taken them over to a budd's place with Higher End equip an he goes how much u pay for these lol i jus smile he is thinking about ordering the M80's get ya a Sub an u will b Fine an Dandy

I do have a sub, but I often forget to include it since it is not a new purchase. It's a JBL PB10, which does the trick for now and should compliment the M22s fairly well. I suspect that a new sub will be in the not too distant future, since the PB10 is great at the theater booms, but probably will not cut it on the music listening....We shall see.

I think that I'll stay the path for now and trust in my purchase. Perhaps I will do as Tom suggested and pick up a pair of the Athena's later for kicks and see how they stack up. Thanks to everyone....I think that I've shut that pesky voice up....for now. Let's hope I can keep it that way when I begin to wonder if I should have taken my original path w/ the M60s.

Set your mind at ease. The M22's are that good. Save some more pennies, and get a Hsu STF-2 to pair with them, and the next time you're at Best Buy, and walk past the Athenas, you'll be laughing at them.

I have never been to a Best Buy and not thought the sound of all of thier speakers was not atrocious, they just have the worst set up of any store in the world. No speaker has a chance in that store. So if you thought the Athenas sounded good in their store, the Axioms will be a revelation in your home (As long as you set them up right yourself.) I would say spend the extra $40 on the M22's to get them now, and then relieve your worries.

Also, the wait times can be a lot less, they just give you the most amount of time it will take.

I also usually don't find the BB speakers to sound that good, except perhaps the expensive special-order JBL floor-standers that they had out, which sounded pretty good. I usually don't even bother w/ the bookshelves because they sound like crap, but I was curious about the Athenas, since I had seen mention of them numerous times on the AVS forums. I was just surprised mostly by the base output. The highs and mids weren't extremely detailed, but the amount of bass was again surprising.

Regardless of my passed transgretions, I have put my mind at ease.

BTW, this is the best sentance I have heard in a little while: (Thank You)

"Also, the wait times can be a lot less, they just give you the most amount of time it will take."

Sorry I meant tell you, not give. I had a long week in Las Vegas.

That leads to two obvious questions...

1. Did you win?

2. What'd you play?

Just my .02 cents. The Athena bookshelves are fantastic sounding speakers for their intended market; they simply aren't as detailed or precise as my M22's. You'll be extremely happy with your purchase, especially as you have the sub to take care of the M22's lack of low end fortitude.

I do have a sub...a JBL PB10. I think I said earlier that I will not be surprised if I have to upgrade that based on it's musical performance.

Along those lines, I went to COMPUSA during lunch to see if by chance they had an HSU STF-2 on sale for the advertised $350 that everyone's been buzzing about. The online inventory site said that they did not, but I figured I'd blow some lunch time and take a look.

Picture me standing there completely conflicted like a deer in the headlights when I see two of them out in the middle of the aisle w/ a "Blowout $350" sign on top. The reasonable side of me said that I should wait and see how the JBL handles things, but the impulsive side of me said to grab this thing while I can.....a chance to get this for $50 less than HSU direct (shipping washed against the tax). Man, did it ever take a lot for me to turn and walk out of there.

You have far more courage than I. I would have grabbed one for my brother, and simply insisted he pay me back. LOL...

Hey Guys! I've been posting over in the Stereo forum about the new M3ti's I just bought and saw this discussion of the M22's and thought I'd ask a few questions.

I'm not totally happy with the M3s. But, I bought a pair of Athena AS-B2's for comparison and they have some short-comings, too. There are traits that I like about each of the brands. If only I had something in the middle.

I've heard it mentioned that the M22's are lacking in the bass department. One of the Axiom techs even mentioned it. But, I'm am not in need of big, booming bass; and I do want clear, crisp mids and highs. I'm wondering if the M22's might not be the answer I'm looking for.

Of course, I was hoping not to be spending more than the cost of the original speakers on this project ($275), so I'm wondering if can get by without a sub using the M22s. Otherwise, there is the feared Domino Effect: More and larger speakers, a new receiver, a new TV, a surround system, a new condo with a full floor devoted to my new system, a new SUV to transport the equipment..............where does it end?

And all I wanted was couple of bookshelf speakers! Any thoughts?

PM,
If the M3s are not 'clear' enough for you in the high end, i would certainly sugget the M22s. They do not have much bass, many bookshelf speakers don't, nor should they unless they can encompass a large driver to compensate for their smaller enclosures (although even this is limiting).
The M22s should be about the clearest sounding speaker that Axiom has.

Hello pewterman. I have the M22s and a fairly cheap sub (10" dayton from partsexpress). With any bookshelf speaker you are going to miss some bass. I love my M22s and usually turn my receiver to stereo mode (this sends everything below 80hz to my sub) when listening to music, but I don't always. There are times that I forget and don't miss it. That often depends on the music of course.
If you want 'clear, crips mids and highs' you will most likely NOT be disappointed in the M22s (there is a first for everything! .
I wish I could calm your fears about the Domino Effect. However, it got me by the short and curlies when I started upgrading. Now I keep telling myself there is no reason to get a better TV since I don't even have cable (and i'd rather spend that money towards a new laptop ...power book or alienware....the dilemas!).

jr

PM, as I said in a previous reply, the highs would be essentially identical, but if the clarity is actually more of a midrange issue, then the M22s would suit you better(as they do me). I ordinarily use the M22s without a sub and yes, you can definitely get by without one for nearly all music which doesn't contain much extremely low bass. Yet another alternative would be the M2s with the same mids and highs but significantly less bass than the M22s. An inexpensive sub such as the Dayton which JR uses(a little over $100)could be combined with them.

However, you should have no fear; we stand ready to advise you on the new condo and SUV.

OK....I've concluded that the factory outlet route is sadistic....it leaves you to second-guess your decision to oblivion. Yes, I'm at it again. This time, it's another set of Athenas.

I was blissfully comfortable with my decision to avoide the Athena AS-B2s and stick w/ my M22 decision. Then, I see on AVS Forum that the AS-F2s are on sale for $199 (originally $299). Now, I've got that voice inside my head saying that I could get a pair of those for a bit more than the M22s. I may sacrifice the clarity, but I'll get that big full floor-standing sound.

So, today during lunch, I ran over to Best Buy to give these things a listen. I was actually able to convince the better half to come an listen with me. She may not enjoy it very much, but she's actually pretty particular about the sound when you can get her there. The good news is that we both found the mid-range to be lacking on these things, which was suprising. We actually hopped from room to room to compare all of the different large floor-standers. We both agreed that the best sounding pair was the "special order" JBLs.

So, it looks like I avoided another bout with that little voice. The only interesting thing is that I am now beginning to get some concern that the wife is actually going to be disappointed w/ the M22s. She really likes that full/large sound.....she balked at all iterations of the bookshelves that BB had to offer. Me thinks that this may be an opportunity to discuss further and perhaps upgrade order to M60s.

Well i for one have the Mi22's an love them i have a Radio Shack 100 watt Sub LMAO Hush u all i know it is weak but for now it will do me but the MI22's need a Sub if u have one then u are set the Mids an high's are great but if u can see who in your area has teh 60's or the 22's an go listen i am sure if someone would b in ur area they would let u Audition them. I have been to Best Buy also an nothing they have holds a Candle in the Mids to high Dept they jus don't sound as good as the 22's maybe more Bass but is it good Bass ? getcha a Good quality Sub an in my opinion u will b happy an Wifey will b happy also, but hey if she agrees to the 60's lol go for it

turbodog, i have never heard the 22's, but i have never heard anyone that has them say anything bad about them!! in fact, they all say how impressed they sound for a bookshelf model. but with that said, if the 'better' half will allow for the M60's, then you would be doing yourself an injustice to not get them.

all this second, and third guessing is just gonna run-up your blood pressure. you have chosen well with the 22's.. relax, and let it ride. and if the M60's are even an option, then go with that. WOW, now i sound indecisive!!

bigjohn

I have come up with the ultimate solution.....I bought both!!!! I just called Axiom and updated my order w/ a set of M60s. This way, I'll be able to do a side-by-side w/ the wife to see which one fits our tastes. Then, I can ease the credit card woes and sell the runner-up on Ebay.....hopefully to an Atlanta resident. I am a happy camper!!!...and I've shut that voice up...for now. What makes this even better is the fact that the rep from Axiom let me know that the scheduled ship date is on my birthday. Can't beat that...except if they arrive on my birthday.

Dog, just for the pleasure of keeping you spinning - have you considered using the M22s for your surrounds?

OK....that's just cruel. Actually, I might have considered it for my rear surrounds, but my setup won't handle it and I'd get crucified by the wife if I spent over $300 on my surrounds when I had previously been looking at in-walls, which will cost maybe half that.

Good try, though. Tonight, I will sleep soundly.

That's why we nominated Ray to harass the undecided folks this month. He's just darn good at it.

It was a good thing that you're wife was cool about odering both sets. Otherwise, he'd get out the "Dr. Ray" hat and start up with the marital advice again.

Trust me, go find a good bartender...