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#392741 - 05/05/13 07:20 PM Breakin time
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
Ok, so the M80 are here and sound great. Is there a break in time
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#392742 - 05/05/13 07:48 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4082
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
There shouldn't be, but technically the T/S parameters can shift if you push them hard enough to where you are heating the voice coil. But it is more of a temporary thing once the signal is not present anymore.

It's really no big deal. However long it takes you to enjoy a pint or two while listening to some tunes on your new speakers. That's "break-in".
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#392743 - 05/05/13 07:55 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: BlueJays1]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7223
Loc: Canada
Actually its about 6 months. After that you will find that the permagrin starts to wear off, but the speakers still sound amazing. Oh, wait, you are talking about the speakers. carry on... grin
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#392745 - 05/05/13 09:44 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Troy, drivers cycle hundreds or thousands of times per second. Any permanent break-in occurs in a matter of seconds and probably took place during testing at the factory. Enjoy.
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#392748 - 05/05/13 10:56 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Your speakers are already broke when you get them. smile
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#392749 - 05/05/13 11:26 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
brwsaw Online   happy
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1125
Has Axiom confirmed a test being run on each speaker before it leaves?
It would be cool to hear the testing method, wattage, lenght of time etc.
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#392756 - 05/06/13 12:46 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I am not aware of any article that Axiom has produced on speaker testing before it leaves the factory but many times on the forum Axiom staff has mentioned each speaker is checked for operation before leaving the factory.

I don't imagine it is an overly exhaustive test, most likely simply hooked up, checked for sound/clarity from each driver and then sent on its way to the consumer.

The extensive testing is done long before the speaker is sold to the consumer with each new version/design change.
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#392776 - 05/06/13 08:30 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
I seem to remember something about it being Slayer, but I'm not sure.
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#392779 - 05/06/13 09:58 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: Ken.C]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6884
Loc: PEI, Canada
Originally Posted By: Ken.C
I seem to remember something about it being Slayer, but I'm not sure.


Attaboy Ken, go all stabbity on a guy who just died.
Jeff Hannerman Obituary.
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#392781 - 05/06/13 11:38 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto
I am not sure why some speaker companies insist there is a break-in time, I, personally, think it is all nonsense. I believe it has been said many times before, it is your EARS that are "breaking in", not the speakers.

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#392784 - 05/06/13 12:35 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6884
Loc: PEI, Canada
Sometime ago I listened to a radio documentary where a marketing company figured out the optimum length of time to offer a product as a free trial. In this case, "optimum" meant 'long enough that the consumer felt they could buy risk free but also long enough that the likely hood of the consumer being willing to return the product, was greatly increased."

My opinion is that a stated "break in period" is designed to serve much the same purpose. Eventually, you get used to them and the thought of going through a return cycle starts to feel less inviting.

Trial periods, however, are great especially for the consumer in this new online purchase world. One just has to enter the transaction being mentally prepared to take advantage of it if you don't get exactly what you expected.

By the way, this radio documentary is a weekly show on CBC radio that talks about marketing. It is quiet aptly named "Under the Influence."
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#392788 - 05/06/13 01:08 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: Murph]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10965
Loc: Central NH
Originally Posted By: Murph
It is quiet aptly named "Under the Influence."

It's clear now as to what prompted you to tune in!
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#392790 - 05/06/13 01:14 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: Murph]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 769
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: Murph
Sometime ago I listened to a radio documentary where a marketing company figured out the optimum length of time to offer a product as a free trial. In this case, "optimum" meant 'long enough that the consumer felt they could buy risk free but also long enough that the likely hood of the consumer being willing to return the product, was greatly increased."

My opinion is that a stated "break in period" is designed to serve much the same purpose. Eventually, you get used to them and the thought of going through a return cycle starts to feel less inviting.

Trial periods, however, are great especially for the consumer in this new online purchase world. One just has to enter the transaction being mentally prepared to take advantage of it if you don't get exactly what you expected.

By the way, this radio documentary is a weekly show on CBC radio that talks about marketing. It is quiet aptly named "Under the Influence."


An interesting analogy and no doubt quite correct, however, when it comes to the topic at hand, speakers, most of these companies still sell through retailers and it is the retailer that determines any sort of return policy, not the manufacturer. Unfortunately, unless you have some sort of arrangement with the dealer, after you buy them and take them home and use them for awhile, the best case scenario is an exchange, not your money back.

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#392795 - 05/06/13 05:49 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: Murph]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7223
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Murph
...
By the way, this radio documentary is a weekly show on CBC radio that talks about marketing. It is quiet aptly named "Under the Influence."

Awesome show! I catch it whenever I can.
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Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#392814 - 05/06/13 10:09 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Ken, I think you are referring to the torture test Axiom does on their speakers where they run +700W through the speakers for hours on end. I am pretty sure this isn't the same as a test run before shipping the speakers to the purchaser.
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#392818 - 05/06/13 10:38 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: jakewash]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7223
Loc: Canada
They also put each speaker though a 'quasi anechoic chamber' at the end of the line. I'm pretty sure Ian explained that here some time ago. What they did was build a small chamber on the line and calibrated it using a known reference speaker and measurements from the full chamber. As I remember it, this was a way to verify that the response of each speaker was as expected.
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Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#392833 - 05/07/13 12:31 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: fredk]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Yes, Ian has occasionally spoken of the "big" chamber to distinguish it from the "mini" chamber used in testing all drivers, as Alan described here
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#392845 - 05/07/13 07:23 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
AdrianD Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 85
Loc: Maple, Ontario
There is data that definitely shows changes in the characteristics of the drivers after the break-in; actually hearing these differences is another story.
My point of view is that at least the bottom end should improve a bit; all the rubber parts (gaskets and surrounding of the diaphragm where applicable).
How long is needed it's another issue; I would guess that it varies wildly, and that in some cases the speakers are broken-in when you receive them.
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#392851 - 05/07/13 08:28 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: casey01]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
it may be that enough "audiophiles" believe speakers, like speaker wiring, need some break-in time, so:
some manufacturers say their speakers need it.
they sell more.

simple enough, i think.
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#392855 - 05/07/13 10:04 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
brwsaw Online   happy
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1125
I'm fairly sure I heard a difference around 20hrs.
The highs seemed to mellow out a bit. At that time I really began to notice how clean they sounded.
It could be that I hadn't really turned them up until around that time.
I listened an hour here and an hour there. They were never on without me listening in those first +/-20 hours.
It could have been me, their position, any number of things really.
It did happen while I was listening. All of a sudden its like they relaxed.
Up till that time I wasn't sure I'd made the right decision. All smiles since.
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#392876 - 05/07/13 01:25 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5932
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I had a similar experience with my first pair of M22's on stands. But I attribute it to the source material played (Alicia Keys). She just made those speakers play smoother and deeper than I've heard them before.

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#392958 - 05/09/13 01:09 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: jakewash]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 177
Originally Posted By: jakewash
I am not aware of any article that Axiom has produced on speaker testing before it leaves the factory but many times on the forum Axiom staff has mentioned each speaker is checked for operation before leaving the factory.

I don't imagine it is an overly exhaustive test, most likely simply hooked up, checked for sound/clarity from each driver and then sent on its way to the consumer.

The extensive testing is done long before the speaker is sold to the consumer with each new version/design change.


Thank you all for bringing up this great discussion regarding the testing that is performed on production loudspeakers. It IS very involved and includes various forms of testing at a number of points during part production and final assembly. In fact, we decided that this would be a great topic for an in-depth video on the subject. Watch for it soon!

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#392960 - 05/09/13 01:29 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6622
Loc: It's all about the location.
I think to spruce up the video a bit, we should get the most excellent of actors, Steven Seagal to Karate chop an assembled M80 cabinet in two for a cross-section.
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#392964 - 05/09/13 02:47 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: Andrew]
ClubNeon Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3452
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
You should do two videos on breaking in speakers, and call the second one Electric Boogaloo.
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#392974 - 05/09/13 09:37 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
Hellcommute Offline
veteran

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 152
listen to the first 30 second of michael jackson's "man in the mirror" on a brand new out of the box pair of speakers. Pay attention to the synth chimes at the start. Then listen again after 20 then 40+ hours "break in" time.

New tweeters will almost always break up a bit with this torture test, and it's easy to hear them struggle new out of the box with this one. smile

Tweeters in general will definitely settle down and mellow out. Woofers I'm not so sure.

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#392982 - 05/10/13 12:58 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: Hellcommute]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Well, there's one data point in the anecdotal column. Ball's in your court, science.
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#392984 - 05/10/13 11:31 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: Andrew]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4842
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: jakewash
I am not aware of any article that Axiom has produced on speaker testing before it leaves the factory but many times on the forum Axiom staff has mentioned each speaker is checked for operation before leaving the factory.

I don't imagine it is an overly exhaustive test, most likely simply hooked up, checked for sound/clarity from each driver and then sent on its way to the consumer.

The extensive testing is done long before the speaker is sold to the consumer with each new version/design change.


Actually i did mention this many years back on my first trip to the Axiom Factory including taking a picture of a test chamber on the factory floor.
See thread here:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php/topics/34543/The_AXIOM_TOUR_2004
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#392988 - 05/10/13 09:54 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Wow, hard to remember that far back, pics/review are on page 9.

Thanks again Chess


Edited by jakewash (05/10/13 09:54 PM)
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Jason
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#392994 - 05/11/13 09:08 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: jakewash]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7223
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: jakewash
Wow, hard to remember that far back,...

They have a pill for that. Can't remember the name thought.
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Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#393010 - 05/11/13 10:51 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Glad to know I am not the only one, wait what were we talking about?
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Jason
-----------------
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#393027 - 05/12/13 11:30 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: jakewash]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7223
Loc: Canada
Well, we're not it the beer thread, so it can't be that.
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Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#393045 - 05/13/13 08:08 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6884
Loc: PEI, Canada
We are just breaking in the thread before we ask the real question.
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#393069 - 05/13/13 10:49 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
At pg.4 I think this thread could possibly be more broken than in.
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Jason
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#393075 - 05/13/13 11:52 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: TroyD]
brwsaw Online   happy
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1125
T u r n i t u p! !
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The Hobbit in HFR 3D was worth the wait.

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#393093 - 05/14/13 11:11 AM Re: Breakin time [Re: brwsaw]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: brwsaw
T u r n i t u p! !

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"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#393100 - 05/14/13 04:49 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: pmbuko]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7223
Loc: Canada
Awww maaaan! Now we gotta go another 4 pages to break in the turnip.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#393102 - 05/14/13 05:13 PM Re: Breakin time [Re: fredk]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
No worries!

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