Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase!
#396338 08/23/13 11:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
frequent flier
OP Offline
frequent flier
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
Now this is strange. I've had a pair of M60's for the past two years and have enjoyed them. They have dual binding posts, connected to my Sunfire Cinema Grand Series II Amp and a Marantz 8801 Pre/Pro. I've enjoyed the sound, but something always felt lacking, and I could never put my finger on it.

Today I was playing around with a calibration disc, and just for the hell of it, I ran the speaker polarity test. The out of phase test tone should have been softer than the in-phase test tone, but it wasn't! I found some other polarity tests online and ran those. Lo and behold, my M60's appeared to be out of phase!

I checked the wiring (which I had done myself) and everything was correct... Red to Red, Black to Black. But despite this, I went ahead and swapped the polarity of one speaker (both pairs of binding posts), and the result was a significant improvement! And this time, it passed all the polarity tests!

So my question is: how could this be possible, given that the wiring was correct? Could one of the M60's be cross-wired inside the speaker, forcing me to compensate by reversing polarity on the binding posts? Again, I checked and re-checked the wiring. It was absolutely correct before.

As an aside, whenever I ran an Audyssey calibration, Audyssey always reported that my speakers were out of phase. I disregarded that, as I knew it was wired correctly, and I've read that Audyssey can be prone to errors, but now it all makes sense.

Can someone help me explain what's going on here? Thanks in advance!

Lee

Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase!
leefarber #396342 08/24/13 12:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840
Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840
Likes: 13
My m60's and current m80's also have dual binding posts, which is how Axiom manufactured them, but you should leave the strap on and only use one pair, was this the case? Just curious since you mentioned the dual posts and "buy wiring" would not be a benefit if that is what you were doing...


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase!
leefarber #396343 08/24/13 12:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,281
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,281
Its could be out of phase any where along the chain from the pre pro on. All speaker manufacturers check the speakers at the end of the line I cant really see one sneaking by but I guess it could happen. I would pull the binding posts out and take a look. The speaker connectors at the drivers are 2 different sizes so there is no way they could be reversed. Truly a strange occurance. I know audyssey often tells me my speakers are out of phase but the next time round it will say they are fine. Maybe Ian or Andrew will see this post and have some insight.


DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry
Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase!
SirQuack #396344 08/24/13 12:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
frequent flier
OP Offline
frequent flier
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: SirQuack
My m60's and current m80's also have dual binding posts, which is how Axiom manufactured them, but you should leave the strap on and only use one pair, was this the case? Just curious since you mentioned the dual posts and "buy wiring" would not be a benefit if that is what you were doing...


No, I don't use the strap. The Sunfire Amp has two sets of terminals for the mains and center channel, what they call a "Voltage Source" and a "Current Source". You can choose one or the other for a slightly more "tube-like" or "solid-state" sound, or you can bi-wire as I've done.

Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase!
Gr8_White_North #396347 08/24/13 02:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
frequent flier
OP Offline
frequent flier
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: Socketman
It could be out of phase any where along the chain from the pre pro on.


The only other part of the chain are the XLR's going from the Pre/Pro to the Amp, but how could they be out of phase? It's only one connection per channel.

Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase!
leefarber #396352 08/24/13 03:01 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
Lee, that's rather puzzling at this point. Just to take some of the rather gimmicky amplifier terminal setup out, try the normal "voltage" terminals(presumably lower output impedance and more accurate sound)alone with the speaker straps connected. See if the out-of-phase condition still exists.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase!
leefarber #396356 08/24/13 06:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
frequent flier
OP Offline
frequent flier
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
I'll give that a try and report back. Thanks for the suggestion, John.

Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase!
leefarber #396364 08/24/13 04:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
frequent flier
OP Offline
frequent flier
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
Unfortunately, I can't locate the straps, so I've emailed Brent to see if he could send me two pairs.

Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase!
leefarber #396373 08/24/13 11:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,333
In the mean time you could use a short section of speaker wire to jumper between the posts. Depending on the gauge, there should be room for a pair of wires in each post.


Scott

My HT
Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase!
a401classic #396381 08/25/13 04:32 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
Ditto.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,939
Posts442,452
Members15,615
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 200 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4