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#396338 - 08/23/13 07:18 PM M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase!
leefarber Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 16
Now this is strange. I've had a pair of M60's for the past two years and have enjoyed them. They have dual binding posts, connected to my Sunfire Cinema Grand Series II Amp and a Marantz 8801 Pre/Pro. I've enjoyed the sound, but something always felt lacking, and I could never put my finger on it.

Today I was playing around with a calibration disc, and just for the hell of it, I ran the speaker polarity test. The out of phase test tone should have been softer than the in-phase test tone, but it wasn't! I found some other polarity tests online and ran those. Lo and behold, my M60's appeared to be out of phase!

I checked the wiring (which I had done myself) and everything was correct... Red to Red, Black to Black. But despite this, I went ahead and swapped the polarity of one speaker (both pairs of binding posts), and the result was a significant improvement! And this time, it passed all the polarity tests!

So my question is: how could this be possible, given that the wiring was correct? Could one of the M60's be cross-wired inside the speaker, forcing me to compensate by reversing polarity on the binding posts? Again, I checked and re-checked the wiring. It was absolutely correct before.

As an aside, whenever I ran an Audyssey calibration, Audyssey always reported that my speakers were out of phase. I disregarded that, as I knew it was wired correctly, and I've read that Audyssey can be prone to errors, but now it all makes sense.

Can someone help me explain what's going on here? Thanks in advance!

Lee

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#396342 - 08/23/13 08:31 PM Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase! [Re: leefarber]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
My m60's and current m80's also have dual binding posts, which is how Axiom manufactured them, but you should leave the strap on and only use one pair, was this the case? Just curious since you mentioned the dual posts and "buy wiring" would not be a benefit if that is what you were doing...
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#396343 - 08/23/13 08:38 PM Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase! [Re: leefarber]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1199
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Its could be out of phase any where along the chain from the pre pro on. All speaker manufacturers check the speakers at the end of the line I cant really see one sneaking by but I guess it could happen. I would pull the binding posts out and take a look. The speaker connectors at the drivers are 2 different sizes so there is no way they could be reversed. Truly a strange occurance. I know audyssey often tells me my speakers are out of phase but the next time round it will say they are fine. Maybe Ian or Andrew will see this post and have some insight.
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#396344 - 08/23/13 08:54 PM Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase! [Re: SirQuack]
leefarber Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: SirQuack
My m60's and current m80's also have dual binding posts, which is how Axiom manufactured them, but you should leave the strap on and only use one pair, was this the case? Just curious since you mentioned the dual posts and "buy wiring" would not be a benefit if that is what you were doing...


No, I don't use the strap. The Sunfire Amp has two sets of terminals for the mains and center channel, what they call a "Voltage Source" and a "Current Source". You can choose one or the other for a slightly more "tube-like" or "solid-state" sound, or you can bi-wire as I've done.

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#396347 - 08/23/13 10:00 PM Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase! [Re: Socketman]
leefarber Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 16
Originally Posted By: Socketman
It could be out of phase any where along the chain from the pre pro on.


The only other part of the chain are the XLR's going from the Pre/Pro to the Amp, but how could they be out of phase? It's only one connection per channel.

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#396352 - 08/23/13 11:01 PM Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase! [Re: leefarber]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10398
Lee, that's rather puzzling at this point. Just to take some of the rather gimmicky amplifier terminal setup out, try the normal "voltage" terminals(presumably lower output impedance and more accurate sound)alone with the speaker straps connected. See if the out-of-phase condition still exists.
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#396356 - 08/24/13 02:22 AM Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase! [Re: leefarber]
leefarber Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 16
I'll give that a try and report back. Thanks for the suggestion, John.

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#396364 - 08/24/13 12:42 PM Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase! [Re: leefarber]
leefarber Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 16
Unfortunately, I can't locate the straps, so I've emailed Brent to see if he could send me two pairs.

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#396373 - 08/24/13 07:54 PM Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase! [Re: leefarber]
a401classic Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 1192
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
In the mean time you could use a short section of speaker wire to jumper between the posts. Depending on the gauge, there should be room for a pair of wires in each post.
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#396381 - 08/25/13 12:32 AM Re: M60's Surprisingly Out of Phase! [Re: a401classic]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10398
Ditto.
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