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#40927 - 04/28/04 12:19 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between Mi's and Rocket
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Mark - I totally agree that the M-80 is a nice $2500 speaker for $1100... This means they can also build a nice $6000 speaker for my $2500... Just because I can afford the $2500 does not mean I don't want a bargain ... hehheh

Jack... Last night you were floating, now you are on the floor ? Are you ok ?
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#40928 - 04/28/04 12:30 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between Mi's and Rocket
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6250
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Well, like everyone else, I have my ups and downs.
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#40929 - 04/28/04 03:59 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between Mi's and Rocket
Petre Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 26
YOU MEAN TO TELL ME ... You had them 8 feet apart and you say 13 feet away ... AND toed them in ???

Well that explains it!!!

You were getting a gross over of sound from the left speaker to your right ear and vice versa . No wonder the soundstage stayed between the speakers . You were hearing everything in reverse




Edited by Petre (04/28/04 04:05 PM)

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#40930 - 04/28/04 10:29 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between Mi's and Rocket
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Petre, to put your musician's mind at rest... I even read the "pro" reviews on the M22's ... In both cases, the reviewer agreed with you in that the width of the soundstage was wider than the speakers, they also said that the depth was disappointing and shallow.

By using a slight toe-in, I achieved an excellent balance between width and depth. If you note, I was very positive about the depth of the speaker. They also noted the speakers were tilted up in the treble, and likely to get harsh in a large room (their words, not mine). I have a large room.

Also, while I admire the fact you are a musician, there is something no musician will seem to acknowledge... you have NO idea what the music sounds like when you are on on stage. That is why orchestras have conductors and Rock and large Jazz bands sound engineers (I was one for years)... We make you guys sound GOOD to the people listening.

I treat a speaker or subwoofer the same way I do a singer... get the best sound possible from that component or individual...
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#40931 - 04/29/04 10:34 AM Re: Bookshelf comparison between Mi's and Rocket
Petre Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 26
I agree that the depth is "shallower" than some , but not much. I get a very wide sound stage and a 3 dimensionality that's forward (as you saw) and extends to the back wall .(I keep them about 3 feet from the back wall .)

I still say you'd have benefited greatly by spacing them further apart. 8 feet apart 13 feet away is just too tight IMO. I personally think the triangle should be more equilateral . I also think these speakers sound better facing forward , not toed in. Just my opinion though.

As a musician ... I can fully understand that we don't know how it sounds from the audience perspective . That's what the mixing/sound engineer is for. But I do know the audience perspective too ... as do you . I also know what live instruments sound like.

So when I hear a speaker that makes lets say ... a triangle (Which should really ring) or Chimes (Which should sparkle) sound lightly muffled ... it's off my list right then and there.

You hear people cry bright when cymbals CRASH ... and I think to myself ... that's what they do ... you want them to hit the cymbals with a pillow ?!?



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#40932 - 04/29/04 12:11 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between Mi's and Rocket
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1660
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Isn't the whole debate on what something (live intruments) sounds like really 'relative' to where/what/when/why/blah anyway, its jsut always going to be different. This greyness continues into the realm of speakers and actually throughout life as we know it.

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#40933 - 04/30/04 12:50 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between Mi's and Rocket
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Inane - You are quite correct. Somewhere in the 200 posts I did between these two speakers, I did say the Axioms are more of a "You are in the front row" sound, vs. the ELT's being in the "You are in the 15th row" sound.. Which is also why I did not declare a "winner", but rather said I prefer the ELT's and why... and also said the Axioms would also be a great choice, especially for those who want a more forward sound.
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#40934 - 05/01/04 12:07 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between Mi's and Rocket
Petre Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 26
I'm suprised this comparison was not posted in the Rockets forum .

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#40935 - 05/01/04 12:27 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between Mi's and Rocket
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
I just demoed the M-22's to a great guy... He bought a PB2+ from me, and has Martin Logan mains, and wants to upgrade his surrounds... He should be registering here... I think, for 6 channel surround, he should look at the M3i's for the surround channels.

Jack - He lives in Cleveland, so I told him a bit about you ...

Petre, It was posted on the Rocket site... and HTF, HTS ... and I have also had three PM's from guys looking at Axiom speakers... all 3 ordered...
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#40936 - 05/01/04 01:03 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between Mi's and Rocket
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6250
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
In reply to:

I just demoed the M-22's to a great guy... He bought a PB2+ from me, and has Martin Logan mains, and wants to upgrade his surrounds... He should be registering here... I think, for 6 channel surround, he should look at the M3i's for the surround channels.



Craig, If you demo your Axioms for someone, and he/she orders, Axiom will send you a check. I don't know how the procedure works, since I've never done it. But, I would suppose that the buyer would have to confirm that you demoed your speakers. Nor, am I sure of the check amount, but I think it's 5% of the speaker price. Don't hold me to that though. Maybe someone who has demoed, and had a sale, will chip in.


In reply to:

Jack - He lives in Cleveland, so I told him a bit about you ...



Good! I hope he introduces himself as the fellow you demoed for, so we know.


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"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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