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#40667 - 04/10/04 11:54 AM Re: Bookshelf comparison between M22i's and Rockets
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
He has been allowing this for the comparison tests... I think he has discovered that being more open brings more people in... which is a good thing !
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#40668 - 04/10/04 12:34 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between M22i's and Rocket
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4825
Loc: western canada
In reply to:

I know Tony G has stirred up some stuff here,..... and he had a round of sh** with Markotran of AVS fame that was pure entertainment...



I think it is a sad state of our society for those who find entertainment in such things and that the source of such occurrences comes from the same people across multiple forums.

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"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#40669 - 04/10/04 12:40 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between M22i's and Rocket
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Chesseroo ... In this case Tony was defending a product he did not even own (SVS), and Markotran is legendary in his hating SVS products... and it was entertaining to read.

Did you read it ?

Also, I appreciated the PM from you regarding my methodologies in testing... did you by chance read the text from the original shootout ?
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#40670 - 04/10/04 01:01 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between M22i's and Rocket
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4825
Loc: western canada
As i said craig, i do not find two people arguing for the sake of arguing anymore entertaining than having to watch the violence already fed to me via the daily news on wars across our globe. It proves nothing more than two people who like conflict or perhaps have no other place to resolve their personal anger problems in an anonymous way.

I did not read the text from the original shootout. Please post the link. I would be interested in perusing it.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#40671 - 04/10/04 01:13 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between M22i's and Rocket
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Since you did not read it, I find your statement that it was arguing for the sake of arguing to lack credibility.

If someone attacks a quality product in a forum, and another person defends that product, I consider that to be proper behavior. That is precisely what Tony did in that example. For example, If I saw where someone went after Axiom, I would definitely defend their products... we really like the M-22's

I thought Rijax had posted a link already...

As an aside... I am also looking at the M80Ti's ... the custom finish idea is pretty compelling...

This could also end up a floorstanding shootout...
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#40672 - 04/10/04 01:36 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between M22i's and Rocket
mhorgel Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/02/03
Posts: 438
Loc: Louisville, KY
Craig;

I am one of those who read your subwoofer shootout and was quite impressed. Though I was rooting for the Hsu (as a Hsu owner), you validated the prevailing opinion that Hsu and SVS subs are both excellent, and I am still very happy with my Hsu despite the fact that SVS came out on top in your shootout.

If you are going to do a floorstander shootout, I would humbly suggest that you test the M60's. As an M60 owner, naturally I am somewhat biased toward that speaker, but there are other reasons to consider testing the M60. The M60's and M80's are reputed to have very similar sound, with the M80's playing somewhat louder and able to fill a larger room. The M80's are a 4 ohm load, and therefore not everybody's electronics can drive them. The M80's are reported to be much more finicky as regards placement, meaning that you might have to do several hours of experimentation with placement before starting the testing. I would also guess that the M60 is far and away the best selling floorstander in the Axiom line, so a review of the M60 would have more applicability to prospective customers.

Whatever you decide, I am sure it will be a very high quality shootout, and I will be looking forward to it.

Mark
_________________________
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#40673 - 04/10/04 01:49 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between M22i's and Rocket
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Mark... Thanks, and in regards to the VTF-3 Mark II, there will be some follow up on the original review... when I posted the original, that was with about 50 hours of listening to each subwoofer... now we are up to about 200 hours.

The VTF-3 is a great all purpose subwoofer... it should be a fairly good read.

I will look at the M-60's also... and may review them on their own... or against a Rocket product and some B&M speakers

One interesting by-product of the original shootout is that some guys who were always arguing between SVS and Hsu became friendly... hopefully that will happen here as well.

Personally, it looks to me like both Axiom and Rocket have superior value to brands like Paradigm, PSB, and other B&M type of speakers... I love it when a guy PM's that he almost bought a $2000 Velodyne, but opted for a $700 Hsu because it sounded as good... and he thanks me introducing him to the product... THAT is what makes this review process worth the time it takes...:)
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#40674 - 04/10/04 01:56 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between M22i's and Rocket
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6250
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Craig,

I don't think Chess said that the Tony vs. Marko thing was arguing for the sake of arguing, but it could be inferred from the way he said what he said. It seemed to me he was referring more to Marko who, I assume you'll agree, does like to argue.

I have not read the thread either. However, with Marko involved, how could it be anything else but arguing for arguing's sake . I gotta respect (and at the same time, question the sanity) of anyone who gets into it with Marko. It's a dead end street and will inevitably become a "you said, " no, I said, then you said," "no, I didn't say that," kinda thing. Chess understandably finds that offensive. Strangely, so do I though I plead guilty to getting caught up in it, as Tony, and Chess, for that matter (apologies Chess) can attest.

I posted links to the two shootouts on the SPOT. I haven't been following for a couple of weeks as I told you. Are you saying that Marko showed up at the SPOT? PLEASE tell me he didn't. Either way, can you point us in the direction of the Marko vs. Tony debate?

Glad you like the 22s. Floor standing shootout would be cool. Many of us here own the M60s and M80s, and of those who don't, many own the 22s .

Emoticons are a do it yourself project here. This will show you how to do them. A bit more complicated than the other forums, but it gets the job done. I copied the HTML section, pasted it into Word, and printed it so I wouldn't have to refer to the web page while typing a reply. While you're there, you might take a quick peek at the rest of the FAQ. They explain a lot.

Hey Ray! Turn Craig on to your emoticons.


_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#40675 - 04/10/04 02:02 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between M22i's and Rocket
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1306
Jack - Thanks for the clarification ...

Chess... Sorry for mis-representing you then...:)

Marko was almost like a train wreck for me... You know... looking is in poor taste, but you just cannot help it... He was so obtuse, I could not let it go....

Oh... and AVS actually deleted the thread where Marko and Tony went at it... and no, Marko has not gotten to the SPot... THAT would be interesting....
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#40676 - 04/10/04 02:08 PM Re: Bookshelf comparison between M22i's and Rocket
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6250
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
In reply to:

and no, Marko has not gotten to the SPot... THAT would be interesting....




Oh thank heaven! I can breathe now. Whew!

_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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