Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Several Questions for you audiophiles

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm very happy to have found this message board. I've been reading for a few weeks and have found everyone to be friendly and helpful- unlike many boards I've come across. I decided to pack my questions all in this post, rather than flood the board with several different ones.

CURRENT SETUP: I have a Phillips 55" HD widescreen (love it) and a Sony "HT in a box" 5.1 audio system. Not exactly top of the line audio, but I got it for about 100bucks because the box was damaged (I work for SCEA, so I can purchase from the local "Sony store" which is open to employees only). I live in an apartment and my living room is approx 15x15. I sit about 11 or 12 feet from the front of my T.V., with my couch pushed right up against the rear wall.

My plans are to upgrade to a Yamaha2400 and Axiom speaker setup- I just want to make sure I'm making the best decisions.

Questions:

1. Surround sound. I am probably going to go for 6.1 for now, and possibly 7.1 in the future. If I go for 6.1, would a QS8 as a rear center be the "optimum" choice? If I end up going to a 7.1, I think I would end up being stuck with an extra QS8. Do you think I should go with maybe an M3 or M2 as a center rear speaker for a 6.1, in case I go with 7.1 in the future? Should I just skip over and go straight to 7.1. The thing is, since my couch is against the wall, I am probably going to go with two extra "presence" speakers up front. Is this a good set-up? Is it worth it- or should I just stick to 6.1 until I get more space to work with?

2. Speakers. Of course, M60's are very tempting. Here are my concerns: My T.V. is fairly tall, so the VP150 would be a good height above the M60's, so I'm concerned it won't necessarily be "balanced" with the height of the speakers on the floor. Will the M22's on 16" or 24" stands be considerably higher, and even preferable as far as matching the height is concerned? Is it even noticeable if the speaker is much lower? I live upstairs, and I really don't need to be blasting my neighbors ears out. I listen at fairly low volumes at night, but I want that sound to be clear and "strong". Are M60s going to be a "bigger" sound at equal volume compared to M22s (both with a subwoofer at low volumes)? I'm not really concerned about the price, but of course, an extra 400dollars is nothing to sneeze at. I could get two pair of M22s for the price of the M60s- or maybe a pair of M22s and a pair of M2s or M3s for the dedicated "presence" speakers. Besides the "what if" factor, would I realistically miss the M60s if I rarely crank it up REALLY loud?

3. DVD-A/SACD players. Should I even bother? I have a 5 disk DVD/CD changer that works fine- but I would love to listen to SACDs and DVD-As. The thing is- it seems most of the players aren't a very good value. First of all, we only get analog connections with them because the record companies don't want us to have "perfect" digital connections for copyright issues (similar to how most cable companys have deactivated the DVI outputs for HDTV STB's). In addition, many recievers don't have bass management for analog inputs- those that do must do an extra conversion to digital just to make that feature work- and the SACD players that have bass management (I think) are quite expensive. So tell me, are SACDs REALLY that impressive?!?! Could some of this just be the placebo effect of the owners who dished out big money for these players (much like people who swear one brand of reciever is "bright" and another brand is "warm"- or the whole speaker break-in debate). I don't doubt that they MAY sound a little better- but is it really THAT noticeable (and worth it)? I have listened to several DVD concert videos that were recorded (or remastered) in digital 5.1 and I think they sound great- what do I really gain with DVD-a or SACD? I would probably buy one if there was a player that had DVD/DVD-A/SACD/CD capability, could hold 5 disks or even 200-400, upconvert to 1080i with a DVI output, and has bass management.. I looked but I don't think one exists yet.

4. Remotes. I have done a lot of reading about the various cool remotes out there and I can't pull the trigger because they all have good pros and cons alike. I am aware of the programming issues of the Pronto, but I'm kinda leaning that way (recent firmware release supposedly fixed a lot of nagging issues people had with them). The Harmony seems pretty interesting also (either the 688 or 768). Lately the MX700 has caught my interest also.. what do you folks have, and what do you like/dislike about it?

5. Setup. So here is what I am thinking - M60's or 22s in front, VP150, QS8s, and either the EP175 or an STF-2 (I'm not concerned with shaking the building- I just want a good quality sub). Do you think that for the extra two speakers in a 7.1 that I should go with the M3s or the M2s? The M3s seem that they would have a little "bigger" sound simply because of their larger driver- but the M2s MIGHT match a little better with 22s or 60s.. would I even notice that one "matches" better than the other?

6. Antenna. Anyone know of a good quality powered FM antenna? I would like to pick up more stations, and clearly. I saw one at Radio Shack for about 30bucks, and haven't done any research on these.. does anyone have one that they like or consider to be the best quality?

7. NBA playoffs. O.K., this is OT - but does anyone else in the world, besides me, think that the East actually has a chance this year? They play MUCH harder every possession and their defense is just astonishing.. Who thinks the Lakers don't play hard enough and are gonna end up getting spanked by pure hustle and better team-play? Go Pistons..

Thanks for any responses/advice!

welcome eltorrente-

i am leaving work in 45 minutes, so i aint even gonna begin to try and tackle this post. but here are quick responses.

the 22's have plenty of sound. with a sub, you might never miss having the 60's. the stf-2 will shake your apartment, the one below you, and 2 or 3 to the sides of you.. it is very potent. you might not even get to use it to its FULL potential til you move out of the apt. use QS8's for side surrounds, and the M2 or M3's for rear. especially if your couch is directly on the wall, the down firing speaker on the QS8 might be a little distracting as a rear surround. my 150 center is almost 3 1/2 feet above my M60's, due to my entertainment center.. its not that big a deal. just angle it toward your sitting position and it will be OK. sacd players are cool, but not a necessity. dont kill yourself over it now, and buy one in a few years when the price goes down and you can get the features you want. i am rooting for anyone other than the lakers..

that just about covers it.

bigjohn

I suppose it would be hard to root for the Lakers if you lived outside the LA area, but having grown up here... eat my shorts! The Spurs and the Lakers have been the only teams with a chance to win the championship for several years now. Spurs are out, it's over.

Re. audio: it sounds like you definitely would do well to downsize in your current apartment. That is, are M60s really necessary? It seems to me that M22s, VP 150, and QS8s (or QS4s) in a 5.1 setup will yield awesome results in a small HT. The QS8s spray the surround sound all over the place, I can't imagine the need for 6.1 or "presence speakers". IMO, many times the latest/greatest innovations are really just gimmicks to get us to part with some extra dough.

You may also want to order just M22s at first to pait w/ your sub, to ensure that you like the Axiom sound. If so, they will surely still give you the 5 piece discount when you order the rest.

ElTorrente, Welcome!

I'd listen to bigwill (except for that drivel about the Lakers, of course).

In that size room, I don't really think going to 6.1 or 7.1 is going to give you sonic value for the extra money. Especially if your listening position is against the back wall. Likewise, I don't really get the allure of "presence" speakers; it seems to me that you're just going to muddy-up the soundstage.

I'd go 5.1 in the beginning and then try to decide what the next, best upgrade is. Really, a rear-surround speaker is not going to be "behind" you, is it? Consequently, I'm not sure you'd be doing yourself any good. If you decide to go for more channels later, you could add a pair of M2's for the 6th and 7th channels.

Everybody loves the M22's paired with a good sub. I've never heard them. You'd probably be delighted. I think your room IS big enough for M60's, especially with your listening position that far away. I adore my M60's, and feel very happy with their imaging and the big, rich sound they convey. I'm not helping, am I?

Does your current player decode DVDA? If so, you might be able to audition at least some multichannel audio without buying a new player. Personally, I'm happy enough with good old Stereo for music. Doesn't Sony make a universal mega changer? Perhaps it lacks the DVI output you're seeking.

I have the MX700 Remote. My wife likes it. Ray3 helped me set it up. It's all good. But you might want to wait and see if you are sufficiently annoyed with the Yamaha remote before you take the leap. It might be just fine. Bliss, even.

There are about 4.7 million threads here about subwoofers. People seem generally pleased with their Axiom, Hsu and SVS holdings. You can't really go wrong. Consult with each vendor about your room size and listening habits, pick a budget and flip a coin.

Remember that Axiom offers both special finishes and Factory Outlet (B-stock) speakers if those options are meaningful to you.

With all due respect to my friend bigwill, I'm on the "anybody but the Lakers" bandwagon. Or I would be if I cared enough.

Keep us posted.

Yep - the M22s sound like your option. Even thought the Yammy does 7.1, set yourself up for 5.1. 6.1/7.1 is really ubiquitous yet and money for 1 or 2 extra speakers nowcould best be spent elsewhere, say on a MX-700.

If you go to SurfRemoteControl, you can find an "open box" MX-700 for less than $200 and they come in pristine condition. Tom and I bought that way and are both pleased with them. I could go on and on about the thing, but I'll just say it is incredible. Get over to Remote Central and read the review on it - very comprehensive.

At Remote Central, in the Files section, you can also download the MX-Editor software and the programming manual. I programmed mine on the PC while it was in transit and just loaded it up when iyt arrived. Very elegant. Also uses Pronto .ccf files (my preference) that allow you to drag & drop commands & the site has 6400+ device files. Very burly macro capability. There is no mistake in buying this remote. I will mention that you can set up macros such that a single button push will switch you from what you are watching/listening to to whqat you want to watch/listen to - turns things on & off and swithces inputs for TV and receiver. VERY high on the spouse-o-meter for simplicity.

If you want to get to more detail or you decide to buy the thing, I'll be glad to help you out (read the programming manual first). Based on the unfortunate Tick episode that Tom instigated, I'll bet he would also be willing to help .

1. I'm running 6.1 right now and don't feel it adds enough that you should worry about. In your situation, I'd go 5.1 right now, using the QS series speakers (either 4s or 8s would work in a room your size) for surrounds. They are wonderful speakers. If you later decide to add more, I'd go right to 7.1 with a pair of M2s. I have no personal experience with "presence" speakers, but I seem to recall mostly negative comments about the whole concept, here on the forum.

2. M22s would probably do just fine in your room. If you have the itch, and the money, the 60s would not be overkill. Don't agonize about having all the speakers at the same height. That's the ideal, but almost nobody can achieve it. The tweeters in my center (VP150) are a good 3 feet lower than the tweeter in my M60s (the center is aimed up toward my ears). No problem. John has his center well above his ears, and aimed down. No problem

I changed from M22s to M60s because I thought they would provide a fuller sound in my room. I feel I was right. There are any number of satisfied M22s owners here who will tell you they are thrilled with their 22s. They are fine speakers. I would've kept mine, if I hadn't needed the money.

3. I'm in the process of getting my first SACD/DVD-A (universal) player. So I'm not qualified to tell you if those formats are worth it.

4. Don't talk to me about remotes. I've just purchased my fourth universal remote. For years I've been using a Sony RM-AV3000. I like everything about it but two things. Size: If you don't have a table to set it on, it's requires two hands to operate. The touchscreen: I wish the touchscreen had a grid so my finger wouldn't drift off the button I want to push so that I end up changing the wrong settings.

Tried the Harmony 659, and though not bad, I didn't care for it.

Having been seduced by Ray3, and TomTuttle waxing poetic about theirs, I've just received my open box MX700. I'm still in the process of programming it. I have to wait for a new DVD player to arrive (next week, I hope) before I can get it up and operating, but, so far, I'm optimistic that it will be as versatile as the Sony, and solve both gripes I had with it.

5. I have the STF-2 and am very happy with it. Cannot speak of the Axiom sub: I've never heard it. M2s (or M22s) for rear surrounds in a 7.1 setup.

6. I have a powered antenna (Terk). Doesn't do anything.

7. I'm a fair-weather Cleveland Cavaliers fan. 'Nuff said.

Gotta go watch LOTR.

Jack - soon you will be in remote heaven. If you run into any bumps, give me a holler. Also, once you get set up with it, I can give you some suggestions on some neat macro applications.

I am an M22 man and I love them, do not let all the M60 guys bully you, the M22's actually have a flatter frequency response. They just do not have as much mid bass as the m60's. But a sub will take over for that. Either way, you can not lose.

Pistons rule, down with the Lakers

You'll be fine with M22s, unless of course, the next housing jump is you squatting in Carnegie Hall.

Consider saving the money on your surrounds - I've got a bigger space with the listening/viewing area about the same size as yours (basement level of a 3 level split - yes, we're those DINKs with a formal sitting room) and the QS4s do the job admirably. The only reasons (and I've asked twice now) people here give for getting the 8s is to squelch the "what if?" voices in their heads and to "match" the 5.25" woofers in the QS8s to the 5.25" midranges/woofers in their mains. Honest, the QS4s will do fine, include one for a single rear centre too, since you don't have any room behind the couch anyway, having two M2s pointed at your head along with a pair of QSs... just may be overkill in your room.

As for the second "presence" speakers - I'm at a loss, you want to use two sets of mains? I want your job, whatever it is - 'cause I'm not paid enough to want to fork out money to have a redundant speaker array.

DVD-A/SACD - no clue, nothing I listen to is released on either so it's a non-starter for me.

Remotes - I learn what I'm given, I hate the new Toshiba DVD remotes, the engineer should be tied down and.. *trails off*

Subs - get whatever works best for you, it's a sub, a box full of rumbly stuff - it often gets the most debate here, but in the end, it's the least musical speaker and takes care of the smallest frequency band. Axiom, Hsu, SVS - they'll all cover you.

Antennas - no idea, we have cable FM here.

Basketball - Euro Cup starts in 16 days, and I intend to watch every game - go DFB, go Clockwork Orange!

Bren R.