Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater M80/VP150/QS8/Denon AVR-3805 experiences

Guys,
First, let me thank the kind and helpful posters in this forum. I finally heard the sound you guys were writing about.

In essence, I bought these speakers (M80, VP150, QS8s) based on the rave reviews from designtechnica.com, audioholics.com, audioworld.com and soundstage.com. I thought, when four different reviewers were excited about the Axiom sound, that is something ...

I'm glad to say I wasn't disappointed. The first few CDs I tested were average. I was initially disappointed. However, after some more tests, I realized that the source material was actually lacking. The M80s played good recordingsly masterfully, and appeared to reveal the quality of bad recordings.

Both Kill Bill (part 1) and U571 were terrific with this speaker.

The Denon AVR-3805 worked great with the M80. No issues. I watched U571 yesterday at reference levels (0 db) yesterday, without a sub. At one point, there was an underwater explosion, the whole room shook (the M80s are great!). No strain on the receiver though.


Regretfully, I decided to return the EP500/Denon DVD 3910. When it came time to pay the bills, I decided that I might have to settle for a cheaper sub/dvd player. I'm thinking of the SVS 20-39PCi/Denon DVD 2910. Will the 20-39 work well with the M80 you think?

Thanks very much for your great/helpful posts.

Ananth

Ananth, welcome and congratulations. You won't be giving up much (except expense ) by going the 20-39PCi/2910 route - both are excellect.

Ananth,

I have a similar setup to the one that you are discussing - M60, VP150, QS8, Denon 3803. I have the HSU VTF-3 Mk2 sub which I think is really superb value for money and will serve me for many years. I also just received a Denon 2910 which I hooked up last night to replace my Samsung 841 player. First impressions are really good - picture quality is superb, with no noticable black crush issues over component or DVI. Audio quality also seems to be a step up, although obviously not night and day. I watched Gladiator last night using the 2910 to do the DTS processing using the analog outs to my 3803 (although it seems that both the 2910 and 3910 systems only have 5.1 outs and therefore will not do DTS-ES or DD-EX which is surprising). All in all I think I will be keeping it, I will take a couple more weeks before I decide.

Hope this helps.

Stuart

Hi i took the plunge last night and ordered M80 Q8 and VP150 now the sales guy at axiom told me that DENON 3805 would drive the M80 but not good at Refrence level so i was worried but i think u just found out it does so can u fill in more details like why u were disappionted at first and then it turned arround more info please

Hi buckcrazy,
I'll try to be as specific as I can ... guys, if this is excessively lengthy, my apologies in advance

First concern: When I initially heard these speakers, my room in wall wiring was not fully functional. I have a 7.1 setup, and 3 speaker ports did not work at all. I somehow made it work by running 16 guage cables directly from the receiver to surround speakers (25-30 feet). Don't know if that impacted the sound or not ...

Second concern: I have a few CDs of John Rutter's English gospel music. I really like the sonorous sound in 'Faire is the heaven', 'Stillness and sweet harmony', etc. But one of those CDs did not appear to have been mastered well, or that's my impression. The mid range was not full bodied -- it sounded thin. I listened to a Fleetwood Mac live recording (forget the title). Nothing exceptional was my personal feeling.

A week later, the in wall wiring guys were able to run two 16 guage pairs (equivalent of 12 guage) to the surround speaker ports. I connected the fronts/center to the receiver using original Monster cable (12 guage). I tried to position the M80s as well as I could. I finally played a CD that my wife had bought -- a best of Shania Twain title I think. Her voice sound very natural through the M80s. I also watched two movies (Kill Bill p1, and U571). David Carradine's voice sounded a little deeper than normal, and seemed more anchored to the center speaker, than to the TV -- but that went away when I set the sound equalization to 'normal'. Don't know how setting the equalization to 'normal' moves his voice from the center speaker (positioned above the TV) to the center of the TV, but it does

I don't know if my appreciation of the M80's stems from a) better wiring b) better positioning of the speakers c) 'break in' period d) recordings that are mixed better

I suspect the main cause of the change in my perception is (d) -- better recordings. The 'break in' period appears to be a subject for controversy, so I'm not going in that direction

Don't know if that helps you buckcrazy ...

BTW, I believe that Alan Loftis recommends Denon (and two other receiver brands) for the M80s, so I think you should be Ok. Alan, if you want to add anything here, please feel free to do so, thanks.

Ananth

Typo. 'Alan Loftis' should read as 'Alan Lofft'. One of his posts on the Denon 3805/M80 is listed here: Alan's post
Ananth

Just a thought on the sub, look at the 20-39 PC+, compared to the PCI. I have NOT heard the PCI, so I can't really say. But if you look at the 12" driver on the plus, you'll see qiute a difference. And the 525 watt amp, compared to 320. maybe not a big deal depending on your intentions. It's 225.00 more. The way SVS explained it to me was there was a "considerable" difference in the jump from PCI to PC+, and while still a jump up to the ultra from the PC+, it was not near as significant, but again a better (their best) driver in the ultra, just a thought. Same size and physical characteristics regardless.

Hi Stuart,
I thought both DTS and Dolby Digital are supported on optical or coaxial connections? If I'm not lying to you, then, the 5.1 analog outs make sense to me because DVD Audio/SACD don't have more than five audio channels (other than LFE) -- and they'd be the only reason I would connect the receiver and DVD player through analog cables.

Let me know if I misunderstood.
Ananth

As you can see by my signature, I have a very similar setup to yours. I just upgraded my Denon 910 to the 2910 and I am extremely pleased with the picture quaility. I use my system 100% for movies only so that is why I didn't feel it was necessary to spend the extra 500 bucks for the
3910. I do not have a projector,plasma, DLP or LCD... so I am not supposed to see a difference with the DVI connection. But, I don't think the 910 was that great of a machine, so it seems like huge upgrade.

My next upgrade I am thinking about is going ahead and getting the M80's and then seeing if i can locate a good deal on the 5803. Who knows if that will happen though!

Good luck with your new system.

Hi Ananth,

The reason for my concern was that the 2910 and 3910 are supposed to have better DAC's than the mid line receivers and therefore (in theory) should provide better sound than my 3803. So I though it would be good to use this advantage under all circumstances. I always have the digital connection and the 3803 DAC's/processing to fall back on.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,
If the DVD player has a better DAC, and an analog cable connects it to a receiver, won't the receiver's lower quality ADC/DAC circuitry reduce the fidelity of the signal anyway?

Sorry if this is a stupid question

Ananth

Hi Coach2369,
Don't know if you had a chance to compare the Denon 2900 with the 2910? Some forum posters mentioned that the 2900 had a better video processing chip compared to the 2910. Don't know if the 2910 wins because of the HDMI connection though.
Ananth

Ananth,

Not stupid at all. If the signal is already analog when it reaches the receiver it is simply passed through directly to the (analog) amplifier stage, or seperate power amp. There is no need for it to be re-digitized at all. The receiver, in this case is simply acting as a conduit for the signals. To answer your other question, I do not have a 2900 but it is my understanding that the Silicon Image de-iterlacer provides a smoother picture while the Faroudjer chip is sharper. To my eyes the 2910 over DVI at 720P looks superb.

Stuart

Ananth, I just have my Denon DVD and AVR for about a month now - waiting for my m60/v150/ep500/qs8x2. I originally had 2910 with 3805 and I was pretty happy with them. However after a few days there was some problem with the 2910 loading tray and sometimes when in random CD mode the key functions would not work. I had to eject the CD and reload for all the functions to work normal again.

Then I tried to exchange to a new 2910 but it was out of stock! So I bit the bullet and got the 3910 instead (double the price though). I would like to tell you the 3910 with 3805 is a much better match. First of all, the loading tray is bigger and sturdier so as the overall build quality and details of the 3910. With the Denon Link connection, which 2910 don't have, everything sounds 25% better - more so with the DVDs.

Hi acap005,
This may interest you: What HiFi 3805/3910 review

What HiFi (UK Magazine) rated the 3910/3805 very highly. .

Here is their review of the 3910 alone: What HiFi 3805 review

Ananth

Hi Stuart,
That's only in direct or pure direct mode correct? Otherwise, if I enable Dolby Prologic IIx (music/cinema) or the corresponding DTS Neo processing, the receiver will have to convert the input signal to the digital domain for processing?

Will appreciate the clarification.
Ananth

Actually, you use 'Ext. in' mode to pass through analog signals directly.

Anthony - I am jealous, I really wanted the 3910 but couldn't justify the expense.

Stuart

Hi all,

Here's an answer I posted elsewhere to buckcrazy re the Denon/4-ohm M80 compatibility (and thanks for the correction on my name!):

The remark about the "reference level" by one our Axiom guys means that if you are in a really big room and you like deafening levels of playback with the M80ti, the Denon won't do it.

Be realistic. How big is the room (length, width, height)? My colleague at Axiom, Jean, managed to shut down three huge monoblocks (250 watts per channel) driving M80s to levels that he obviously liked in a huge room (10,000 cu ft). I had to leave the room.

If your tastes lean towards loudness levels like that and you are in a big room--6,000 cu ft. and larger--then get a basic 2-channel power amp with at least 150 or 200 watts per channel to drive the M80s.

I'd also add that the Denon A/V receivers will indeed drive the 4-ohm M80s in average-size to moderately large rooms (up to 4,000 cu ft). But if your tastes run to extremely loud playback in huge rooms, then a power amp is the answer for the M80s.

Regards,

Thanks Allan for clearing that up.
Here is my present setup details and I do not drive the volume up and the room is 20x20 and 10 high and I use like 60 % of it for HT as there is kitchen on right side and on the left enclosed by 3 walls it my HT setup now I am happy to run this at moderate levels and definitely not glass shattering levels now I would like to take this opportunity. to get advice from u on my HT set up it is for 95% movies and 5% music u guys recommend DENON 3805 so that is why I am leaning towards this I have a Pioneer Elite TX 54 with B&W 603 601 and LCR 600( I already sold them and ordered this set which is an upgrade in sound by all means that Is what I am lead to belive) which I use at -35 to -20 levels I got a good deal on that but now I am low balling this unit as some time in movies I felt the center channel is not coming out it could be speakers it could be the unit,I loved the occasional music cd that I popped in it that going through number of post I went in U R direction for speakers and good reviews on Denon and U R recommendations pushed me towards 3805 which I hear is great for Movies now if I keep my Pioneer Elite Tx 54 that will save some coin if I upgrade to Denon3805 basically spending another 250 bucks and getting good DSP modes for movies if I get Nad T763 which i prefer a little bit more than DENON will be another 600 bucks .
So my question is which according to you should serve my purpose?

so, ee cummings is into ht?

Best laugh I've had all day!!!

Buck, I'll mail you a dollar if you could figure out a way to incorporate an occasional period or other punctuation in your posts. You're obviously NOT an inarticulate idiot - maybe just a little lazy. Your posts would be a bazillion times easier to read, and I'd be eternally grateful.

Well, there are 5 whole punctuation marks in that post.

Yes, Ananth, as you point out, any processing to be done by the receiver(e.g. bass management or DPLII)is done in the digital realm and would require ADC re-conversion if an analog input was used. As Alan and others have pointed out, DACs are mature technology which exceed the needs of human ears and the program material. No audible difference will exist between them even though slight differences measurable in the lab still remain. So, don't let the DACs be any factor in your decision.

point taken, and will try to do that yes u got that right i am lazy after watching all the movies any way merry christmas and a happy new year. Opps my bad did i miss some puctuatiion marx.lol