Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Code of Conduct

There becomes a real problem with where to draw the line any time you undertake to add any sort of censorship.

If the problem is the "tweaking" of the board BG color and such, simply turn HTML off in the preferences for UBBThreads - it's the safest way to run a message board anyway. Playing around with BODY tags is just annoying, using HTML to load ActiveX controls can be a great way of spreading more malicious content - UBBCode can still be used for all the oft-used HTML tags (image display, etc).

If it's postings that are more your concern (and I don't come around here much at all anymore - not sure what's going on) then it becomes tough to determine where that line is, and it will be different for each person (for me, I could do without the misogynist posts for instance).

Bren R.

I think the opinions stating a code of conduct is only as good as the people who adhere to it are correct. However, having one would make it easier for a moderator to justifiably ban trolls and delete threads. I have checked the FAQ and don't see it as an option, but wonder if it's possible to setup some sort of ignore for specific users. That way every time I see someone being a troll I can just /ban or /ignore all their posts.

I like this forum a lot. Most folks are nice and helpful with only the occasional hissy fit (probably due to too much sugar or forgetting our meds). But, lately we have had some rather nasty threads and personal attacks. I’d really rather not see this forum locked down. The openness is part of it’s charm. Maybe we regular members can make an extra effort to disregard and not respond to those who chose to troll and not take throw away comments or opinions so personally. And if someone does attack you, let them. It’s just some shmoe on a message board you don’t know or care about. The only way to get rid of trolls is to not feed them. Rising to their bait is like wrestling a pig. You end up covered in mud and only the pig is happy.

james r

Well, I wanted to postpone writing until I could fill my stomach and my head with Important Thoughts. While I was gone, everybody else pretty much said what I wanted to say! And they said it better than I could have.

I'll add just one thought that hasn't really been discussed:

Far be it for me to speak for Ian and Amie, but let me offer a point that they may be hesitant to bring up. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, so….

This is NOT a public forum. Many people confuse the fact that this forum resides on the internet with thinking that free speech is a "given" here. This forum is fully underwritten by a private, for-profit company. This important point brings up two considerations. One, which HAS been mentioned, is how incredibly generous the folks at Axiom are both in providing this forum at all and, even more remarkable, allow us to write of and even recommend other brands of speakers besides their own. I have been a member of many, many different forums over the last ten years and can tell you that's unusual!

Point two, which really has NOT been discussed yet, is how a "bad apple" can, in a very real way effect the bottom line of a company like Axiom. Put things in a different context: If you owned a coffee shop that offered seating on the sidewalk, what would you do if every day a customer sat out front, talking loudly, swearing, and making other customers uncomfortable… maybe so much that they don't want to come in and order a coffee? What if you owned a storefront, and everyday some kid came along and spray-painted graffiti on the front of your business?

This is how I liken recent occurrences here.

I personally think that this is a great forum; I feel like I'm part of a little family here and have even given up other forums to feed my Axiom BBS habit! There's familiar faces, sometimes predictable responses (a GOOD thing!) from those with opposing viewpoints and a little teasing. It's comfortable. That's my personal feeling.

The business side of me says that this forum is a great sales tool for Axiom. How many of us can attribute part of our "Axiom decision" to these forums and the people that fill them? Many, I'm sure.

So, back to that customer at the café or the kid with the spray can. I know what I would do if someone were threatening my reputation, my livelihood and my friends.

But what can be done on an internet forum? Is an IP address a realistic, workable method of blocking access? What about a more stringent method of registering? Not to impede people initially, but to have control over their access to the forum if things get out of hand?

Unfortunately, this is not an area where I have any expertise. Anyone have a technology solution?

Nicely put, Mark. Your words made me remember a post I started a long time ago. I wrote in Word, because I wanted time to think about what I was saying, before I shot my mouth (eeerrrr, fingers off). Before I could post it things settled down, and I never did post it. I'm going to do so now.

I thought about editing it, because there are references to things that are in the past. But, I decided to leave it as it is, so you can see that it was done quite awhile ago. So, I present it for your thoughts, and with apologies to 2x6.

Well this is a fine kettle of fish. Guys, we’ve lost sight of the goal around here, and it’s time to step back for a little self examination. Imagine how this thread looks and sounds to an anonymous surfer who has come here to learn about Axiom speakers. Were I that person, I’d be outa here in a second. Like it or not, we represent Axiom, and we should never lose sight of that.

2x6, you’ve endured a lot of “shots” you shouldn’t have had to endure. Unfortunately, that’s made you, not altogether unreasonably, quick to reach for your gun, resulting in your handing out your share of unnecessary “shots.” Let’s just for the sake of argument, assume Alan is correct that tube amps “color’ the sound. So what? If you like that coloration, you like it. You don’t need to justify that preference to anybody. Like and dislike are completely separate from right and wrong. So Alan can be “right” that tube amps “color” the sound, and you can be “right” to like that coloration. I’ve never heard a tube amp (actually, at my age I probably have, but I just don’t remember it), and would like to very much.

It is generally accepted that Citizen Kane is the best movie ever made. I’ve never liked it. The two positions are NOT mutually exclusive. It CAN be the best movie ever made, and I can STILL dislike it.

So, lets all allow 2x6 to like the sound of tube amps without trying to make him feel a fool for doing so. His liking them doesn’t make our liking SS amps wrong. I’m glad he’s here to inform us, and others, about them. His presence adds to the credibility of this forum. And 2x6, put a strap on that holster. It just might slow you down and keep you from shooting an innocent bystander, like Peter (OK. Not so innocent, but a bystander none the less).

A word about language. Let’s take the word f***. Now, I’m familiar with that word. In fact, it would take most of you younger guys 10 years of saying it every second to match the number of times I’ve said it. If you’d come around for a Browns or Indians game, you’d hear me still using it at just about that rate, usually with the word “mother” explosively placed in front of it.

You younger people have grown up in an environment where you feel you have the right to speak as you please. But, what about others’ rights to NOT hear what you’re saying? Others do have rights too, you know. We used to call it consideration for others. That concept seems to have gone down the tubes today, along with a lot of other good values. The problem is, when that language crops up here, it is usually to punctuate a personal insult such as “get your head out of you’re a$$. First, try to skip the personal insult. Secondly, at least have the good taste to disguise the word as above. We’ll all get the point.

Finally, the human race never ceases to amaze me. We have 98% of things in common, and yet we chose to scourge each other over the 2% we don’t. No wonder I’m a misanthrope. Let’s try to allow others to think and feel differently than we do. They’re being right doesn’t mean we’re wrong.

Don’t misunderstand. I’m not suggesting that we all whip out our guitars and start singing "Kumbaya," or "It’s a small world after all." I love the freedom that the folks at Axiom allow us here. But freedom isn’t license. So I humbly suggest that when the steam starts coming out of your ears, and your fingers are menacingly poised over the keyboard, you take just a moment to remember where you are, and what the goal is here. Then remember that strangers are watching and listening. And finally, remember that you represent Axiom.

I apologize if it sounds like I’m standing on high, loftily (sorry Alan) handing down condescending words of wisdom. I’m more guilty of some of these transgressions than many here, less so than others. So, if you’ll try, I’ll try.

OK. Take your best shots.

All,

Most of you have noticed by now that I post rarely...

I try to help only when I feel qualified or have information that may assist someone...be it on topic or off topic.

I rarely take a major stand primarily because I don't feel that I should have to.

The prospect of a code of conduct (as has been mentioned) cuts both ways...but the primary point is that it is only valid as those willing to adhere to it.



I have sat back and watched the trolls come in and ravage our forum...

I have seen usually logical members lose their cool and in essence, (in this case) the troll has been able to reproduce by forcing (or enabling) someone to stoop to their level and so the carnage ensues.

I have seen people sign on with the intent of maliciously "stirring the pot" to get their jollies.

I have seen well meaning members attempt to mediate (most times to no avail) in hopes of regaining some semblance of civility to the forum.



I guess what I am trying to say is this:

My dearly departed Mother (within the last two years) tried to instill in myself and my four siblings as well as the numbers of foster children cared for, this one simple idiom:

"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything"

As simplistic as this may sound, it is valid for this discussion.

Sometimes it is as simple as biting your tongue and keeping your mouth (or keyboard in this case) closed.

This applies to all who have been considered trolls as well as those who unintentionally feed these trolls...even by trying to break things up.

We all are human...

We all have a passion for audio...in some it is more declared than others...

We all have (more often than not) differing opinions about a myriad of topics.



Bottom line: Think before you type.

If you feel incensed about a topic, sleep on it and revisit it tomorrow...



Remember:

It is only an Internet discussion group...

Your life does not depend on your opinion or anyone else's being in the forefront.

A troll not fed usually dies of boredom.



I do not write this to offend anyone and pray I have not...if so you have my sincerest apologies.

It is what it is.

WhatFurrer

I just find it sad that Axiom has to even think of doing anything. I believe they have done a fine job of setting up this forum for all to use and I enjoy reading the banter. I for one don't take offence to anything any one says on this board nor do I take it as truth, even with proof. Until I can assertain what is right or wrong , good or bad for myself, all input is just that, input and more information for me to decipher as to what I think about said subject. These are just words dealing with audio equipment,for the most part, a very subjective topic and differences will be numerous. Just look at the thread of favorite movies.

I realize the problem is in attacking others on the forum. A couple of rebuttles and the thread could be shut down or removed and life goes on and hopefully the combatants realize their errors and walk away.

I believe most people know when things are going wrong and try to negate the damage. I have read many other forums and the etiquette here is top notch. I have seen other forums where members are removed or discouraged from mentioning other products, now that IS censorship.

Ian & Aimee do as you feel you need to do to protect your product. As Mark said this is YOUR forum.

I leave you guys unattened for a few weeks and now look.

Must be very proud of yourselves

BTW, i liked it better when the forum opened up to parent instead of blank.

Ajax...

I am now certain that I chose the wrong word, but I can't seem to think of one more suitable right now. I am not implying that they are not responsible for the things that they got involved with, and I did not mean to imply that the forum membership in general was the "culprit". I was simply referring to the fact that a few poorly worded comments caused a huge fire storm that got out of control, and it escalated into what amounts to a huge mess. If you can somehow associate the word "victim" in that context, I think you might have a better idea of what I meant.

Having on at least one occassion put my own foot in my own mouth, and losing the respect and friendship of an individual on this board that I admire, and hold in extremely high regards in the process, I've learned to think a little more carefully about what I write. Or at least I thought I did. The fact that you, and at least one other person so far did not understand my intentions tells me I've still got work to do. There is a point to my madness. I was trying to be very general for Amie's sake, and my own since I have an opinion on why this got so out of control. I will not elaborate any further because doing so would require that I possibly offend another forum member. It takes at least 2 to tango, and my personal feelings are that things would not have escalated to the level of ugliness that they did if more of us had just said "yuck" and moved on to the next thread, or composed the next reply without commenting on the original offensive comment. I was just as offended by GD's implication that we all don't know what they heck we are talking about as the rest of you guys were. I had an unusual problem that was caused by the shape, size, and materials of my TV. I initially blamed the speaker, but further investigation proved that it wasn't the cause of the issue. I find it entirely believable that GD heard what he says he heard, but I also think he didn't take the time to find out what the REAL culprit was. But did it really need to get that far out of control? I feel that the comments he directed at you and some of the others were ENTIRELY out of line. You did NOTHING at all to deserve that. Some folks did assist with pushing him in that direction, though, and I feel that it was a small part to a larger picture. Yes, his behavior did cause the bulk of the problems, but someone took a unnecessary shot at him a while ago, and from that point on he was a stick of dynamite with an already lit fuse.

I understand the silence / consent relationship, but sometimes silence is just simply the refusal to go below a certain level.

I apologize to ANYONE who misunderstood what I meant, but I am not sure that I know how to clarify it without muddying the water even more. Amie asked for comments about conduct, and I was simply pointing out that sometimes things happen in a written forum where the lack of the tonal inflections present in spoken word cause misunderstandings, hard feelings, and overall hate and discontent. When speaking face to face with someone, we also hear what are saying when we say it, and we glean from other's facial expressions and physical reactions wether or not the intent of what we are trying to say is getting through to the person that we are speaking with. In a written forum, you write what you think you want to say, and hit send. If the other person is offended, or doesn't get your point, you have no way to know that until a heated reply comes back your way, and you go "whoaaa! what is this jerk saying?". By then it is too late, and the argument just keeps escalating and escalating. (wow... I think I just accurately described what I meant by "victim") I think if everyone involved in that thread were sitting around in the same room, drinking beer, and having the same discussion, it would have turned out differently. It would have been a very heated discussion ending either with an "oh well, we agree to disagree" or an all out rumble, followed by more sitting around tilting back more tall, cool ones...

Oh... and how I've been able to hang out on here for as long as I have without seeing that "notify moderator" link is beyond me... Can I borrow your bifocals, Jack?

Thank you everyone for your thoughts on this thread. A lot of you have made the points that we feel also and it is excellent to see them reinforced.

After reading through all the suggestions, I think the code of conduct is clear, and we will formulate it and add it to the header for all to read and agree to before they post. Although we do not want to leave our 'open-board' policy, it's clear that there are occasions where posts need to be deleted or, in extreme repetitive cases, users need to be banned. Following the suggestions put forth of using the “Notify Moderator” icon we should be able to let the board members decide through multiple complaints when action is necessary; we are still hesitant to make all these calls ourselves. This leaves the boards open unless multiple complaints from board participants are received. BrenR's suggestion to disable HTML is also a good one and has been followed.

I am sure we all look forward to the return of the Axiom Boards we all remember; an open, welcoming, friendly environment that seeks to help and improve our listening experience. They are certainly a big help to us here at Axiom for all kinds of feedback we can use to improve our company. In fact it was a message board post, a challenge really, that started the research that ended up becoming the EP500 and EP600 with their revolutionary DSP engine. Albeit it took over two years of research to answer that post in the form of products but it did eventually happen.

Michael, I meant no insult and hope none was taken. As I said, my reaction was one of surprise, not anger. You've explained your point well, and I now understand it.

I DO believe that feeding the troll just makes things worse. But, the difficulty arises when differentiating between feeding the troll by lowering yourself to his level, and reasonable rebuttal.

Being specific, it was one posters implication that the original poster could NOT get an objective opinion from anyone on this forum, and must go elsewhere to get a reasonable answer to his question that set things off. Being one who believes there is NO SUCH THING as an objective opinion, I agreed with the the first part of his implication. The thing that bothered me was the general implication that an objective opinion could be found elsewhere, and specific implication that any opinion would only be objective if it agreed with his own.

What if the original poster BELIEVES that? It's not so much that I feel the necessity to defend the forum's honor, although that is, admittedly, a factor. But, rather it's the desire, and commitment to provide the original poster with accurate information. I feel it's important to answer that kind of misinformation, for the forum's sake, for Axiom's sake, and for the original poster's sake.

When he resorts to name calling, I feel no need to respond in kind, because that kind of behavior speaks for itself. I do feel the need to point out that that kind of behavior is unacceptable. The trick is to do so on a higher road than the troll, so as not to feed him.