Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater High-end interconnect and speaker cable ?

Sorry for the mis-statement... recorded all with my friends CD player. I really need to preview when I'm writing posts at 11:30. Started the project with my player before I remembered (by way of getting out the coax and trying to find the jack) it has no dig. coax out. Although the files were still the same. I also seem to have too much time on my hands lately. Subwoofer showdowns, testing optical vs. coax digital.

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Assertions that all receivers are equally transparent especially set off alarms in my head. If you think about it, they really couldn't possibly unless they used the exact same circuit designs, the same amount AND exact same make/part number of transistors, resistors, capacitors, transformers, etc... Any change in the formula could easily change the sound.

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Just a short comment. When an engineer designs a reciever, he starts with the basic assumption that his unit will take an input signal from a source, and present an exact copy of that signal at a larger amplitude (volume) to the listener. Assume that there are 10 engineers from different companies designing 10 different recievers. They all start off with the same exact goal in mind, which is producing a distortion free copy of an input signal at the output stages of the amps. If all of them achieve what they set out to do, then you should have 10 recievers that sound exactly the same. The only way to change the sound is to introduce distortion. "Distortion" generally includes any change to the signal caused by the circuitry, including amplitude. They intentionally distorted the amplitude, because that is the whole purpose of the amplifier. Any distortion that would make the reciever sound differently comes from something altering the frequency or shape of the signal. During the design and testing of the circuit, the engineer would correct anything in the circuit that would be causing significant distortion. Here's where the differences between high end and consumer grade come into play. Rotel is going to allow FAR less "acceptable" distortion than the manufacturer of your typical Wal-Mart HTIB system manufacturer will. They extra dollars you pay out going to getting a more precise copy of the original signal. Better components, extra filters where needed, etc.. If they get it "perfect", then it should sound the same as every other "perfect" reciever out there.

All well designed, high quality, recievers should sould the same, IF the engineers started off with the goal of producing a larger, but otherwise unaltered copy of the input signal at the output stages. All bets are off if they started off with the goal of producing a "tailored" sound, which some probably do. Bose comes to mind. They make no attempt at all to produce an exact copy of the input at the output. They intentionally emphasize some frequencies so as to "trick" the mind into thinking that the ears are getting the whole signal when they really aren't. Other reciever manufactures may intentionally emphasize certain frequencies or ranges of frequencies, or otherwise alter the signal slightly to add "warmth", "depth", etc.. Bottom line is that you have to know what the engineer was TRYING to build, before you can compare his unit against another unit.

The designers of one of the other brands of speakers that I was considering before buying my Axioms clearly stated in an email to me that he designed the sound of the speakers to suit his personal tastes. I didn't buy those because I want an exact copy of what the artist put on the CD coming out of my speakers. Now, can the 2 speakers scientifically be tested "against" each other? Yes and no. You could, but they were built to do different things, so you are kinda wasting your time. They ARE going to sound different because one of them started off on paper with the goal of producing a different sound (which is "distortion", and why I didn't buy those speakers).

Ok... That wasn't so short, but opinions are like... well, you know. I've never tossed my hat in this ring before so I had to vent.

Ok then. But I must ask, why bother auditioning different receivers or components of a common class, price, and feature set? Further, are you referring to "distortion" in the figurative sense that the sound gets altered or in the literal sense that measurable noise is introduced into the signal path?

Warning -- totally unconfirmed personal hypothesis follows :

My best understanding is that within "normal operating parameters" (not such high volume that the peaks are even approaching clipping level, not such low volume that class AB/B crossover notch is a factor, speakers with reasonably flat impedence curve etc...) there isn't much difference between "good" receivers and the best amps. As you start to get closer to the edges, however, the design nuances start to make a difference.

I'm pretty sure I heard a subtle difference (that "more solid bass" thing) going from a moderate power HK stereo receiver to the HK 630, although I have *not* done A/B testing to confirm that. I also have collected enough anecdotal experience over the decades to believe that a big honkin' high quality power amp *is* going to make a difference in sound over a lower power amp or receiver, even if you're not clipping the lower power amp.

The best component amps tend to be "overdesigned" and conservatively rated, which is where I think the sonic differences come from -- more than any inherent advantage of discrete components over an integrated amp or receiver.

If you have enough overkill in your receiver (eg you listen at volumes which a 1705 could handle but you bought a 3805) my guess is that adding a separate power amp wouldn't make much difference. On the other hand, if you have challenging speakers to drive, a large room, and good enough speakers that cranking the volume is a pleasure, you can probably start to get near the limits of even a high end receiver and *that's* where the sonic differences start to creep into your listening room.

Anyways, this is just my 2 cents. Never had time to do enough testing to prove anything.

I just sold my car to buy some new cables. The results have been amazing. Turns out that my Axiom speakers are only as good as the wire used to connect them to my amp. While listening to my favorite MP3 downloads on my tape deck, I immediately noticed that the sound is much warmer, more articulate, musical, forward, backward, smoother, more transparent, has a wider soundstage, more palpable, real, seamless and truthful.

Of course, my perceived sonic benefit has nothing to do with the amount of money I paid for the cables. The truth is, the more expensive, esoteric and mysterious the science behind a cable, the better it sounds. Regardless of the basic laws of physics, packaging and price tags make cables great. I am riding the bus now, but boy, my speakers sound great!--Andy

I sense no sarcasm whatsoever...

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I sense no sarcasm whatsoever...

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That's debatable. Consider this sentence: "I just sold my car to buy some new cables."

I sense no humor detection mechanism whatsoever...

peter man.... you got a million of 'em..

bigjohn