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#159724 - 02/26/07 01:49 PM Re: Auditioned Klipsch what are comparable Axiom's [Re: zuter]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
You are quite welcome. Of course, we're a little biased around here towards Axiom, so you are doing the right thing by listening to *everything*. If you have a CD burner, burn a mix CD of your favorite music and take it with you when you demo speakers. I find this invaluable, as I can hear music that I have a deep and passionate understanding of, instead of just whatever-the-dealer-puts-on music. It makes a difference. As another member says, 'Trust your ears'.

In looking for Axiom-like speakers to demo, it's hard to say that brand X sound's exactly like Axiom, because very often speakers within that brand will differ in their sound qualities. For instance, B&W's 6xx line sound quite different from Axiom (they are the opposite of the Klipsch's, I would describe their sound as having a hump in the middle), but the couple of 7xx line speakers I've heard do have a bit of the 'Axiom sound' to them and are quite lovely, IMHO. That is to say, accurate and smooth. My friend's B&W 801's sound like they're on a whole different plane of existence from anything by Axiom, but then again they're $12k speakers.

With that in mind, you could try to find an Energy dealer. I have owned and listened to several Energy speakers over the years, and while I certainly haven't heard *all* of them, the ones I have heard do sound 'familiar' when compared to Axiom. Especially the Veritas and Reference Connoisseur series. Again, a relatively balanced and smooth presentation without being overly bright, warm, or heavy.

Just to make things more difficult, you could also take a look at the Onix Rocket line of speakers. Another direct-to-consumer retailer, I have never heard them but they seem to have have a pretty serious set of online groupies too. Many, many folks seem to rave about them.AV123.com I'm not going to say they're better or worse than Axiom, since I've never heard them.

I would definitely try to hook up with an Axiom owner in Calgary and listen to their setup. Even better than that would be to just buy the m22's and return them if they're not what you want. You'd only be out the return shipping cost, with Axiom's 30 day return policy.


Edited by PeterChenoweth (02/26/07 02:01 PM)

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#159725 - 03/03/07 03:57 PM Update [Re: PeterChenoweth]
zuter Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 81
I did hookup with an Axiom owner, jakewash, in Calgary to hear the M22's, VP100, QS8's and a sub (didn't see maker's logo). Though jakewash wasn't available to demo the system Mrs Jakewash graciously allowed me a listen. Together we fumbled through listening to music and a couple movie excerpts.

My impressions concerning the M22's for music is they are a beautiful sounding speaker. Very impressive when mated with a sub for the low end. Crisp, clean and vibrant! These are an excellent choice for music, easily on par with the Totems I reviewed in an earlier post and at half the price!

The HT portion I played Phantom Menace and Saving Private Ryan. The sound clarity was precise but I felt a little sibilant...which could probably be tamed with a little tweaking. I wasn't familiar enough with the Denon AVR to correct this so my conclusion must be taken with this in mind! Even at high volume I heard no breakup in the sound, this setup remained very clean and clear throughout the playback. Compared with the Klipsch, reviewed earlier, the Axiom's dynamics weren't in the same league, even my current setup does a better job here...again the AV-R's available "headroom" may not be sufficient for an accurate comparison. Don't get me wrong, they weren't bad, far from it, they have a good range just not as large compared to others I've heard!

The real charmers in this setup were the QS8's! Background effects had me looking over my shoulder several times! The VP100 and the M22's blended perfectly as the dialog and effects were seamless. The QS8's brought up the "rear" and matched beautifully! All in all a very nice setup!

If I were looking for a music setup the M22's would be 1st on my list. The sound and price are unmatched to anything I've listened to so far. But...you knew there was a but...I'm looking for a HT setup and right now I'll continue my search. Not that I'll eliminate Axiom from my choices, the QS8's are as impressive as the Klipsch RS52's I heard and similar in cost. Both remain as equal contenders! Also, I need speakers for my living room. Though the wife probably won't approve of the M22's, due to their size, the smaller M2's or even the M3's would be a nice addition. After hearing "Axiom's" I'm sure the smaller speaker's sound quality wouldn't differ greatly!

A big thank you to Mrs Jakewash, real name's are omitted! And remember if I do make a purchase of the Axiom's, the commission goes to the wife! Having to put up with a total stranger, "she", was the one who earned it!

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#159726 - 03/03/07 04:52 PM Re: Update [Re: zuter]
Randy_Perkins Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 193
Loc: Franklin Indiana
I have the vp100,(under the tv) and have heard a vp150( above the tv). I felt I had noticed an improvement with the 150, and had added it to my list of upgradeitis. I was wondering if maybe it was a placement issue, but what I got out of your post makes me think otherwise. If I was to buy my center speaker over again, i would get the vp150.
_________________________
Axiom M22,Ep500,Qs8,VP150, Denon 2807,1940, Sangean HDT-1X

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#159727 - 03/03/07 05:44 PM Re: Update [Re: Randy_Perkins]
zuter Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 81
Center channel placement is critical, as it is in all speakers. As long as the center points into the listening position you should be fine. I'm told the difference between the 100 and 150 is the 150 is more dynamic, having a larger enclosure and more drivers.

I've been talking to Axiom regarding my center channel choice. I was interested in the VP150 more as an addition to my current setup, which they assured me would be a good match. However, we have also been discussing using a pair of M3's wired in series as an alternative. These would provide as good as center setup, or better, than the VP150. My only concern is what that would do to the ohm rating? Running in series, or parallel, two 8 ohm speakers would make it appear as a 4 ohm speaker!? Since my AVR is rated for 8 and 6 ohm I assume that the center will work the amp much harder creating an possible overheating issue. Fine for short durations but maybe a problem over extended periods. I'm still investigating and have sent an email to Pioneer for clarification.

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#159728 - 03/03/07 07:34 PM Re: Update [Re: zuter]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Once again I must apologize for not being there for the audition. A change in my plans for the weekend forced me out the door before I realized I shouldn't have been going out.

I have thanked my wife profusly and am working on ways to make it up to her, any thoughts?

Glad you were able to fumble through the Denon enough to have a listen. When I get my M60's and VP150 I will have you over and I WILL be there.

My wife said it was a pleasure to meet you and now says HI.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#159729 - 03/03/07 09:19 PM Re: Update [Re: zuter]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4825
Loc: western canada
Quote:

These would provide as good as center setup, or better, than the VP150



This certainly would be dependant on the listener, but being an owner of the VP150, and having had several people over who had queries about it (e.g. Jordan for one), it has always been an amazing performer and noted by all those who have had a chance to audition it in our system. The driver arrangement and size of the VP150 really encompasses a wide angle of sound before going off-axis.
I've tested this with pink noise a few times and i'm sure i looked rather silly scooting from left to right, slightly hunched trying to keep my ear level to the tweeters during the testing.

I've done sillier things in my time.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#159730 - 03/04/07 12:42 PM Re: Update [Re: jakewash]
zuter Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 81
Thank you again and no problem. Axiom is very lucky to have such an enthusiastic clientiele! A big "high five" to people like jakewash who open their homes so others can experience a truly remarkable product!

A nice night out away from the hub-bub of daily chores usually works for my wife, as a suggestion. Please tell her the pleasure was all mine. You have a very lovely family and home...that and great system, who could ask for more!?

Enjoyed the system immensely...especially the QS8's! Denon was one of the AV-R's that I was considering. I chose the Pioneer 81 Elite as it was first to come on sale! Yours wasn't hard to figure out, nicely laid out with very decent sound...but hey, that's Denon! But, being unfamiliar with it I wasn't sure of your settings. Had you done any calibration? Or, even what your current settings were? Didn't want to play or mess up anything.

You mentioned "lay-away" in your pm...didn't think of that! I'll have to enquire with Axiom about this since I don't have all...most, but not all...my monies for the upgrade yet.

Keep me posted about your new system as I would definitely be interested in a listen.

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#159731 - 03/04/07 01:22 PM Re: Update [Re: chesseroo]
zuter Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 81
Yes, both the VP150 and VP100 are still high on my list for a center channel. But one of the reasons I am looking at the two speaker setup, ie: a pair of M3's, is for placement and directional considerations. Our HT setup is in a room 20' x 11' x 7.5'. Which does well in channelling the sound to us in the seating area about 12' back. We both tend to be close to the outer 20' wall on opposite sides. If I could have the center point at us simultaneously then we'd each feel we'd have a near perfect setup. This would eliminate any "off-axis" for either of us! This twin speaker setup would, I believe, solve this problem.

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#159732 - 03/04/07 02:28 PM Re: Update [Re: zuter]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4825
Loc: western canada
Quote:

Our HT setup is in a room 20' x 11' x 7.5'. Which does well in channelling the sound to us in the seating area about 12' back. We both tend to be close to the outer 20' wall on opposite sides. If I could have the center point at us simultaneously then we'd each feel we'd have a near perfect setup. This would eliminate any "off-axis" for either of us! This twin speaker setup would, I believe, solve this problem.



zuter,
I am trying to picture your setup and considering that you say you sit 12' back, i'm assuming that your room dimensions then are 11' wide and 20' long.
With a width of 11' in the room, you will not require some angled dispersion from two centre channels. In my old basement setup, i tested the off axis repsponse if the VP150 across a range of about 12-14' approximately 9' away. Sitting even further back will blend the forward speakers even more.
I would estimate that at a 12' seating distance, you would have to be sitting at least 15' or more apart to potentially hear a difference from left to right.

Also keep in mind that having two units for a centre channel which are aimed differently can create sonic problems of its own.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#159733 - 03/04/07 05:05 PM Re: Update [Re: chesseroo]
zuter Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 81
Sorry I should have been more clear but yes, 20 long and 11 wide. I figured being that far back was helping with the center/mains blending.

I currently have my centre above the plasma at 6+ feet high pointed into the seating area. My mains at ear level. This does cause some issues with the sound field but does a pretty good job of focusing the dialog/action to the display. Once I mount my plasma to the wall I'll be moving the centre down to the mains level. As you can see I'm still not done. Just trying out new ideas and thanks for the input and experience.

Another reason I'm looking at the M'3s for my center is that they are a slightly fuller range than the center's with the added bonus of being cheaper to boot! I did consider that new issues could arise from using two speakers off axis for the same channel. However I got the idea from Yamaha's "Sound Projector" speaker. They use an array of speakers, pointing off axis to create the illusion of a surround setup. Not what I'm trying to mimic but if done right could enhance the center setup...or not!? Who knows, if it works we could start a whole new fad

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