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#165614 - 04/17/07 09:43 AM Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Hi all, this is the story. Most of my CD's sound like crap on my Universal DVD players (have the HK DVD22 and Oppo971H), some well recorded stuff sounds really awesome but 90% sound like thin hollow very edgy and bright pieces of crap, in other words I cannot listen to them.
So, In my wondering I began reading up on stand alone CD players. Of course forums are forums where most people say you can't hear the difference with a blind a/b comparison, and I now know that they have NEVER heard a "good" CD player.

After reviewng several entry level "high end" players I decided on the NAD C542 because it got generally good reviews and most importantly my local HIFI shop let me audition it at home for the night. First of all,the well recorded stuff sounds even better now,even fuller sounding and especially noticeable is the much deeper soundstage and even more detail with the intricate stuff. Now, this is the good part, that 90% of my collection that I couldn't listen to sounds friggin awesome! I could not beleive it, I traded discs back and forth between the Oppo and the NAD and the difference is simply stunning. I have only had a chance to try a few of those crappy discs so far but will pass on my thoughts later as I listen to more of the "horrid" collection.

So, bottom line, I will be taking my demo back today and laying down $700 odd dollars for one of these little beauties. If you have the same issues with your collection, don't take my word as all systems are different but go out and find a dealer that will let you audition without commitment or maybe a BB or CC that sell higher end Dennon CDP and have a good return policy, listen yourself and be prepared to be stunned.

Still shaking my head,

Chris
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#165615 - 04/17/07 10:10 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: KlipschGuy]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I'm glad you were able to increase your listening pleasure. Were you using the digital out or analog outs on the players?
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#165616 - 04/17/07 10:18 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
I was curious about the same thing recently. I have a 10 year old Sony 5-disc CD player that I used to play my CD's. I know what some of you will tell me, but I was curious if there might be any benefit of looking at a better player?

Randy
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#165617 - 04/17/07 10:37 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: SirQuack]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Hi guys, I am using the analog outs on the Cd player. Just listened to a few more of the no play list and all I can say is wow!. Billy Joel sounded just wonderfull, used to be really thin and edgy. G&R sounded better but the recording is really bad:(,

Randy, I would see if you can do a non commital audition but i suspect you will hear a huge difference. This unit is just incredible, the vocals and horns are sooooo silky smooth and natural, its just bliss.

I'm one happy boy with a new toy, won't catch me using a DVD player for Cd's any more.

Chris
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#165618 - 04/17/07 10:38 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: SirQuack]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1127
Loc: Ontario, Canada
If you are using the digital out on both players, and using the DA conversion chip in the receiver, both players should sound identical.

If you are using the internal DAC, and running the analogue out on the new CD player, it IS possible that it could sound better.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#165619 - 04/17/07 10:44 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: real80sman]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Shawn, when you come over I will a/b for you, its night and day.
Oppo..digital out using pre/pro DAC. analog sounds horrible.

NAD 542...analog out into CD on pre/pro

Chris
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#165620 - 04/17/07 10:54 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: KlipschGuy]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
Others will argue differently, but I am definitely in the “players sound different camp”. I have had numerous players on my rack over the past couple years and have been able to distinguish differing sound qualities from them. I have an Integra that I’m currently using for those times when I just want to pop in a disk and listen for a spell. The difference is sound between it and the mega changers is there.

I’d love to get another CD player for my two channel system, but it seams that I’m always too busy buying more important crap. If I were to buy one today, I’d most likely get one of the Cambridge units. They have a new up-sampling player out that looks like a dandy. If I had three or four grand lying about to blow on a player, I'd pick up one of the Marnatz Reference SACD players. It’s doubtful that will ever happen, so the Cambridge will have to do. It’s about $1200.

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=112&Title=Azur+840C
_________________________


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#165621 - 04/17/07 11:30 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: michael_d]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
Man, this is confusing stuff.

Doesn't this just mean that the DAC's in the NAD CD player are better than the DAC's in the Emo (since you're using the digital out from the Oppo)? Can it mean anything else?

I'm not arguing. I totally believe that you can discern a preference. I'm just trying to wrap my brain around this.

Thanks for reporting your experience.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#165622 - 04/17/07 12:26 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: KlipschGuy]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Congrats on that NAD cd player. The main sonic attributes you are hearing comes from the higher quality Burr Brown DAC in the NAD compared to the Oppo DAC. The Burr Browns are known for their linearity, very low signal to noise ratio, lower IMD and revealing low level detail.

I have several cd and dvd players and the best sounding one is my Rotel 1072 player which also has Burr Brown DACs.
_________________________
John

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#165623 - 04/17/07 01:03 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Hey guys and gals,
Yup, thats all there is to it, the NAD has better dacs than the EMO and better power supply etc than the Oppo, sure sounds good.
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#165624 - 04/17/07 01:11 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: KlipschGuy]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Hey Jakeman, thats a really nice unit you have there(Rotel), I liked the looks of that but they wanted a G note plus tax and no audition...end of that story.
Because of past mistakes I will never buy any audio gear without a home audition again, its just not the same as hearing potential new gear in your system in your room. If dealers believe in their products and you have room on your credit card, they should be more than happy to lend you a demo. My local Cambridge Audio and Rotel dealers lost a sale because of this idiotic policy.
Rant over

Chris
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#165625 - 04/17/07 01:15 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: KlipschGuy]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
I agree with you on the importance of power supplies. Even in Cd players a beefer, noise free transformer makes for a better sound. Great deal on that NAD. I'm with you no home audition...no sale.
_________________________
John

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#165626 - 04/17/07 01:38 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: KlipschGuy]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
If you think that NAD is nice, you need to try the AH! Bljoe Joeb. err. I mean Njoe Tjoeb.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#165627 - 04/17/07 01:57 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3191
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
pmbuko,

LOL!

Regards,
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#165628 - 04/17/07 04:28 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Quote:

If you think that NAD is nice, you need to try the AH! Bljoe Joeb. err. I mean Njoe Tjoeb.




What is something like that worth? Looks pricey anyway.

Chris
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#165629 - 04/17/07 04:32 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
Riker Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 375
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
I used to listen to my CDs in my 15 year old Yammaha carousel player. Then I got a Cambridge Audio Azur 540D DVD player and played my CDs via the DVD player but digital out to my preamp. The sound is night and day, that's because my preamp, the Anthem AVM 20 has really good AKM dacs. I listen to all my CDs on my Preamp

I'm sure high end dedicated CD units probably sound better, but given that 80% of my music listening is lossless encoded FLACs or APEs, that setup is good enough for the times I actually do listen to a CD.
_________________________
Acoustic Zen Adagio, Veritas center, Axiom EP500, QS8s, Anthem AVM20, MC20,Adcom GFA7400

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#165630 - 04/17/07 04:38 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1127
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Quote:

If you think that NAD is nice, you need to try the AH! Bljoe Joeb. err. I mean Njoe Tjoeb.




Wow! If I could get a CD player that would do that as well.....
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#165631 - 04/17/07 04:40 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Riker]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
I just saw this.... http://pioneer.jp/dvdld/player/dv_600av/

for those riding down the HDMI trail, this unit has promise. it's the first SACD player that will pass true DSD via HDMI. In other words, you should get (in theory) the same quality bit rate via hdmi as you do with the multi channel analoge. You'll need an audio processor with HDMI 1.2a though.

Michael needs to buy one and report back.
_________________________


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#165632 - 04/17/07 04:40 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: real80sman]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Quote:

Quote:

If you think that NAD is nice, you need to try the AH! Bljoe Joeb. err. I mean Njoe Tjoeb.



LMAO, too funny Shawn
Wow! If I could get a CD player that would do that as well.....



_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

Top
#165633 - 04/17/07 04:45 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: real80sman]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1127
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Well I would like to thank Chris (KlipschGuy) for the audition today. He was gracious enough to have me over so I could listen to his Emo setup with the new 80's. I'll have a report shortly....

And yes, big difference with the NAD player. When he A/B'd them, the vocals through the Oppo sounded a little more forward and shallow. Through the NAD, the soundstage and vocals seemed to have much more depth.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#165634 - 04/17/07 04:59 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: real80sman]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
Did you try listening to the Oppo through its analog outputs?

Seems like we now "know" (ha!) that you guys prefer the DAC's in the NAD to those in the Emo, but have we heard the ones in the Oppo?
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#165635 - 04/17/07 06:26 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: tomtuttle]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1127
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Hi Tom,

I didn't have enough time to personally listen to them, but Chris said that they were worse than the ones in the EMO. I have no reason to doubt him - he seems like a no BS, straight shooter kind of guy.

He did say how happy he was with the video quality of the Oppo, though. I'd have to agree - the picture it was feeding his Z5 projector was awesome.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#165636 - 04/17/07 06:46 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: SirQuack]
Spoiler Offline
aficionado

Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 680
Loc: South Florida
Hey Randy, I know alot of the mid-level Denon's and above have the Burr-Brown DAC's... so if your Sony has a digital out (and you're using it) you may not need to consider an upgrade.
_________________________
Epic 80 / SVS PB13 Ultra
Denon 3805 / M2200 Outlaw Monos /
Sammy 55" LED

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#165637 - 04/17/07 09:06 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Good one, Peter. Thanks for injecting a little humor into this thread of largely fantasies.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#165638 - 04/17/07 09:14 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Spoiler]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Hey Spoiler,

Yep, I'm using optical out to my Denon 2805. Can't remember if the 2805 had the Burr Browns or not, so maybe I'm all good.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#165639 - 04/17/07 10:32 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: SirQuack]
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
I think the 2805 has Analog Devices vs the 3805 Burr-Brown.

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#165640 - 04/18/07 12:49 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: JohnK]
Saturn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canuck
Many real average audio afficianado people have tried this tests with swapping out components and hear a difference. Blind tests, wife tests, machine tests. Many people have actually recorded differences using computers to track the difference or just plain using their ears and matching as close as possible the output levels.

johnk I do not understand that a highly respected person on this site as yourself can not fathom that one CD player can outperform sonically another brand. I think its time you open your ears or your mind. You definitely stereotype an audio snob of somesort...whatever that stereotype is.

For the rest, I appreciate the postings and observations as you fall into that same upgradeitus that a few/many of us fall into. Those observations may or may not be used for judgement calls for the next audio/video purchase. Sometimes it makes a difference...sometimes it doesn't. In the end of the day if one feels that their money was well spent to better enjoy their systems then why not.

I welcome the following rant that precedes this message and I know johnk you wont even jump in.

ps: Peter that was a funny.

Quote:

Good one, Peter. Thanks for injecting a little humor into this thread of largely fantasies.



_________________________
http://www.quadloft.com/hometheater- new HT

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#165641 - 04/18/07 12:55 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Saturn]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Nice to see you back, Saturn.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#165642 - 04/18/07 01:55 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
Saturn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canuck
Kudos...And you didn't finish that sentence.

Nice to see you back, Saturn ... and you haven't changed eh!


Quote:

Nice to see you back, Saturn.



_________________________
http://www.quadloft.com/hometheater- new HT

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#165643 - 04/18/07 02:09 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Saturn]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
I don't think anyone expected you to! So what are you running these days? Revel Ultimas? Magnepan MG20s? WATT Puppies?
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#165644 - 04/18/07 10:06 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Ken.C]
Saturn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canuck
Havent changed much in the last 1.5 years. The only thing I've been running is early morning shift diaper changes. click on the HT setup as my current gear.


_________________________
http://www.quadloft.com/hometheater- new HT

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#165645 - 04/18/07 10:10 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Saturn]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Congrats, Sat! Great-looking kid.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#165646 - 04/18/07 10:13 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: JohnK]
Saturn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canuck
Thanks johnk.
_________________________
http://www.quadloft.com/hometheater- new HT

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#165647 - 04/19/07 12:23 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Saturn]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Missing a few toes...
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#165648 - 04/19/07 06:29 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Saturn]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10965
Loc: Central NH
It's cute kids like that who want to make me have one!
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#165649 - 04/19/07 09:46 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Saturn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canuck
Thats what I said too until last week when I got home and he was leaning on the front of my speaker and smacking the speaker driver with the flat of his hand.
Just to add to my frustration when I picked him up rather quickly I noticed in the front hole of my speaker within the horn portion I saw his water bottle within the speaker.


Quote:

It's cute kids like that who want to make me have one!



_________________________
http://www.quadloft.com/hometheater- new HT

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#165650 - 04/19/07 11:05 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Saturn]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
If they weren't cute, they wouldn't still be alive.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#165651 - 04/19/07 01:55 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
Gawubba?

The Boy kept me up until 4 last night. Didn't want to sleep... Reeeeeaaaallly didn't want to be swaddled.

Don't really know why I'm posting this.

Mmmm... coffee....
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#165652 - 04/19/07 02:37 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Saturn]
korkster Offline
buff

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 56
Loc: northern n.j.
I remember many years ago walking into the family room only to see my dog lifting his leg on my brand new, beautifully crafted, solid walnut Advent speakers (back when Advent made really nice stuff). I guess he was showing these new "intruders" who was king of the house. It's a good thing he was cute too (LOL).

Getting back on theme here, I've been in a similar quandry as of late using my Panny RP79 for all of my audio as well as video. My 22 year old CD player finally bit the bullet a little while back. The Panny plays DVD-Audio as well which I have absolutely fallen in love with even though it seems very few others have and it is dying a slow but seemingly certain death. I've been thinking about upgrading since the DVD-Audio is sent via analog through my Outlaw 990 thus bypassing it's DAC and I'm not real sure how good the DAC in the Panny is. I'm just not sure what to do, or how much difference it would make, or if I should just purchase a really nice CD player since I have tons of CD's and only a few DVD-Audio discs.

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#165653 - 04/19/07 03:08 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: korkster]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Your quandry sounds familiar. I have a Panasonic s-97 which I use for dvd-a via analog and it sounds excellent. For CDs it isn't very good and the sound is just not as transparent and lacks dynamic range. When I use it for cds its just as a transport into an Arcam processor which has a better Wolfson chip. That's what led me to buy a higher end player like the Rotel 1072 with great DACs for cd playing. Because I like to compare and experiment I also picked up a sacd player Sony scd9000es which sounds wonderful with SACD but doesn't compare to the Rotel with ordinary redbook cds.

The difference in sonic quality is very evident to everyone who hears them. I have to admit I too am somewhat perplexed by people who scoff at how different players or processors or analog vs digital connections can sound different.
_________________________
John

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#165654 - 04/19/07 09:15 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: KlipschGuy]
chesseroo Online   crying
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4849
Loc: western canada
Quote:

So, In my wondering I began reading up on stand alone CD players. Of course forums are forums where most people say you can't hear the difference with a blind a/b comparison, and I now know that they have NEVER heard a "good" CD player.



I was going to berate this incredibly ignorant post and its generalization about the rest of "everyone else out there" let alone the complete lack of any attempt at objectivity before pronouncing on the rest of the world.

However Saturn posted a cute picture and Peter made a funny and now i'm just laughing (20% at the joke, 40% at the cute kid and 40% at the ridiculous content of this thread).
Glad to see you back Saturn. I have yet to drop in on you in TO. I haven't been there in awhile.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#165655 - 04/19/07 10:10 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Ken.C]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Ken,

It will get a lot worse before it gets better.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#165656 - 04/19/07 11:01 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: SirQuack]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
Thaaaaanks....
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#165657 - 04/19/07 11:04 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Ken.C]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Just like Buzz and Zurg in Toy Story II.

Zurg "Go long Buzz"

Buzz "Awe, your a great dad"
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#165658 - 04/19/07 11:15 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: SirQuack]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
Quote:

Ken,

It will get a lot worse before it gets better.




Then they turn into teenagers.......

Just be glad you had a boy Ken. Girls stop being human when their brain cells move to their chests. At around 22 they miraculously turn into human being again and say things like "I'm so sorry daddy, you were right" "here, hold your grand daughter".
_________________________


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#165659 - 04/19/07 11:37 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: michael_d]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
No kidding, I'm glad I have two sons. Some day they will say "Dad, that is what I like about them high school girls, I keep getting older and they stay the same age".
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#165660 - 04/20/07 12:32 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: chesseroo]
Saturn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canuck
Before this gets messy again ... lets stop the banter. If anyone wants to talk about DACs, CD and DVD comparison feel free to private msg me.

chess whenever your in town drop me a line. I'll torture you with a blind CD vs DVD test....joking!!!!!


I would gladly trade kid, dog and audio stories. I'll even show you my kids new toy storage facility within the horn structure of my speakers.
_________________________
http://www.quadloft.com/hometheater- new HT

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#165661 - 04/20/07 06:35 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: michael_d]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
Quote:

Quote:

Ken,

It will get a lot worse before it gets better.




Then they turn into teenagers.......

Just be glad you had a boy Ken. Girls stop being human when their brain cells move to their chests. At around 22 they miraculously turn into human being again and say things like "I'm so sorry daddy, you were right" "here, hold your grand daughter".




This is so true, my daughter is now 22 and she somehow seemed to just snap out of what ever world she had been living in for the past 10 years or so. We get along just fantastic now.

My son, at 21, now that's a whole different story. Can anyone say head up his ass
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#165662 - 04/20/07 07:32 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Saturn]
davidsch Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 678
Loc: Houston, Texas
You have some very impressive audio equipment there! Does it sound as good as it looks?

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#165663 - 04/20/07 10:52 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: davidsch]
Saturn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canuck
It sounds pretty good at least to my ears. Wide and deep sounstage in the 25x23 room. Thats coming form a tiny 3 inch full range driver.
My dogs not too happy when we are watching a movie and the 15 inch Rel sub shakes the foundations of all the units surrounding my loft unit.

Quote:

You have some very impressive audio equipment there! Does it sound as good as it looks?



_________________________
http://www.quadloft.com/hometheater- new HT

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#165664 - 04/20/07 01:38 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
korkster Offline
buff

Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 56
Loc: northern n.j.
Thanks for the insight Jakeman. I stopped in a high end store this morning and they suggested going the better quality CD player root as well, either the Rotel 1072 or the Rega Planet. They will allow me to audition either in my home system which is the nice thing about dealing with these type of stores. Plus they know their stuff. The Rega is a few hundred dollars more but I've heard such great stuff about it I think I'll have to give it a try. They're suggestion is to hook up the player via analog and let the Rega's DAC to the D/A conversion. I'm anxious to see how it does.

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#165665 - 04/20/07 01:53 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Saturn]
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5214
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:

Havent changed much in the last 1.5 years. The only thing I've been running is early morning shift diaper changes. click on the HT setup as my current gear.






I've said asked before, but it seems I need to ask again....don't any of you Axiom peeps have ugly children? I know ugly children exist. I see them all the time. Yet every time a forum member posts a picture of their child it's adorable! Are these pictures really your children, or are you all posting pictures of model kids?
_________________________
"A nation cannot prosper long, when it favors only the prosperous." -President Barack Obama

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#165666 - 04/20/07 02:00 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: spiffnme]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I've got a handful of less-than-glamorous pictures of my kids I could post...



And, no, I'm not referring to bathtub pictures.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#165667 - 04/20/07 03:10 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
I'm sure I could find one of Elliott doing scrunchy face, but he's still cute. Give him a few years. Junior high will not be kind, I'm sure.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#165668 - 04/20/07 06:31 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: korkster]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
I haven't heard the Rega but it does come highly regarded. Any chance you could do a home side-by side with the Rotel 1072? If your dealer really wants the sale he will give you both at the same time to play with.
_________________________
John

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#165669 - 04/21/07 04:46 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: chesseroo]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Quote:

Quote:

So, In my wondering I began reading up on stand alone CD players. Of course forums are forums where most people say you can't hear the difference with a blind a/b comparison, and I now know that they have NEVER heard a "good" CD player.



I was going to berate this incredibly ignorant post and its generalization about the rest of "everyone else out there" let alone the complete lack of any attempt at objectivity before pronouncing on the rest of the world.

However Saturn posted a cute picture and Peter made a funny and now i'm just laughing (20% at the joke, 40% at the cute kid and 40% at the ridiculous content of this thread).
Glad to see you back Saturn. I have yet to drop in on you in TO. I haven't been there in awhile.




Holy Crap! I post my thoughts and opinions on what I have read on various forums and my initial impressions on using a CD player versus a universal DVD player. I go on the road for four days and come back to see all these anal remarks and negativity, disgusted is the lite version of how I feel. This hobby along with music is my passion and for many others as here as well, I don't claim to be an expert in audio but get great fun and enjoyment from my gear and music combined and enjoyed reading others experiences and learning(sometimes) from others so it was natural for me to want to share my enthusiasim and opinions as well.

All forums dealing with CD player issues have the same negative nellies slamming anyone who claims to have heard a difference between the two, the same goes for the "all amps and pre/pros sound the same" crowd, if you look, its everywhere and for that matter it took about two whole seconds for JohnS to state that "its all fantasy" or some such ridiculous remark and you call me ignorant!!

You nasty vindictive folks need to get a life and let people who enjoy this hobby do so without your calous remarks, if thats how you behave in person, I'm not surprised you have to resort to forums to unleash your venom filled comments.

Get a life!
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#165670 - 04/21/07 05:10 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: KlipschGuy]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Chris,

First of all, you have not been around long enough to know some of these people and their backgrounds. Secondly, it is JohnK not JohnS. Thirdly, I don't see any of them calling you names like anal, negative, nasty, vindictive, calous, venom, etc. Maybe it is time for you to change jobs or whatever, seems your a little defensive for whatever reason. Not sure they are the ones that need to grow up. jmfo
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#165671 - 04/21/07 09:18 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: SirQuack]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5443
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Previous post deleted. I read back through the thread and Chris I would have to say that a reasonable person WOULD conclude that you called us ignorant and ill-informed. You could have been talking about some other forum of course. That's how I interpreted it, and I suggest everyone else interpret it the same way

Could we all agree to the following :

1. If two players have two completely different analog paths, ie if they are not simply feeding digital streams to the same dacs in each case, there is a good chance that one player could sound considerably better than another.

2. If the players ARE hooked up via digital PCM and are feeding unprocessed digital streams into the same DACs in each case, it seems unlikely that different players could have a huge difference in sound quality. I keep hearing the jitter story but I don't fully buy into it.

3. If you have a decent player hooked up via PCM to a decent receiver, and replace it with a really good player hooked up via analog inputs to the same receiver, it is quite feasible that the new player could sound a lot better.

KlipschGuy, if you read back through the previous posts I don't *think* you will find anyone making a blanket statement that all players sound alike. You will, however, probably find a similar sounding statement but with the qualifier about analog vs. digital paths.

I'm on dial-up (you all know how fast) and I really can't bear to go back and read the thread AGAIN. Can you guys with the fast ISPs work it out ?


Edited by bridgman (04/21/07 09:38 PM)

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#165672 - 04/22/07 12:50 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: bridgman]
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
Dun dun dun...

AVSForum meats Axiom Forums

Which is the "other white meat"?

Stay tuned...
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#165673 - 04/22/07 01:02 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: danmagicman7]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5443
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Hey, I know that one...

CAT, the other white meat

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#165674 - 04/22/07 01:20 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: bridgman]
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
Quote:

Hey, I know that one...

CAT, the other white meat




Hmm...the hatred of cats taken to the next level. I kinda like that.

I wonder how cat tastes? Stringy maybe?
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#165675 - 04/22/07 06:32 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: danmagicman7]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1127
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Quote:

I wonder how cat tastes? Stringy maybe?




It all depends whether you're using a burr brown digital fork, or a regular one......
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#165676 - 04/22/07 06:35 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: danmagicman7]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
I don't know about domestic cat but I did try lion years ago. It was real strong tasting meat; I didn't go back for seconds that's for sure.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#165677 - 04/22/07 10:44 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Wid]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5443
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I always imagined cat tasting unpleasantly like cat food...

... of course I mean "the way cat food *probably* tastes based on the way it smells"

It's not that I hate cats, I just resent their sneering domination of humans.


Edited by bridgman (04/22/07 10:47 AM)

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#165678 - 04/22/07 03:38 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: SirQuack]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
Quote:

Chris,

First of all, you have not been around long enough to know some of these people and their backgrounds. Secondly, it is JohnK not JohnS. Thirdly, I don't see any of them calling you names like anal, negative, nasty, vindictive, calous, venom, etc. Maybe it is time for you to change jobs or whatever, seems your a little defensive for whatever reason. Not sure they are the ones that need to grow up. jmfo




I've been here long enough. John and Chess went too far and came across as a bit callous to me with descriptors like "ignorant" and "fantasy". It wasn't worth mentioning until now because I didn't take offence, but I can understand why Chris did.


Don’t know about cat, but I’ve had dog. I was scared for life after finding out that was what I ate.
_________________________


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#165679 - 04/22/07 06:30 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: michael_d]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Here is a recent thread that reviews this topic in more detail. In that thread , I posted a couple of long posts discussing the whys and hows of DACs and formats. I tried to keep the technical jargon down. The analog vs. digital connection discussion is a red herring in a way because all digital signals needs to get converted to analog somewhere in the equipment chain. The better question to ask is where is it best to convert the digital signal. The answer will depend on the quality of your equipment with the quality of DAC being of prime importance, though not the only factor.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=161844&an=0&page=2#Post161844
_________________________
John

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#165680 - 04/22/07 11:11 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1127
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I also took offence to the "fantasy" quip. And Chesseroo laughing at "the ridiculous content of this thread". Because of my support of Chris's findings, these comments were directed at me as well.

I've always been skeptical of the boutique CD players with the vibration isolation feet and so on. Every CD & DVD player I've owned has sounded identical - regardless of connection path. Plus, I somewhat agree with John about recievers/amps sounding the same - BUT AT LOW LEVELS. Past that, I believe they can sound different. So going in, I wasn't expecting anything. But when Chris did the switch, (same CD) I DID HEAR A DIFFERENCE, and I was shocked because I wasn't expecting it. (Chris has his equipment behind the listening position so at the time, I thought he was just putting in another CD)

Regardless, I didn't hear enough of a difference, and I don't do enough "critical" listening to justify the $600 price tag. But Chris does, and that's all that matters. I've got friends and relatives that think I'm nuts for spending $3900 on the Epic 80/600, but to me it was worth every penny.

I don't care whether you believe me or not, but I certainly didn't appreciate (or expect) to be laughed at, or be told that I live in a fantasy world.
_________________________
Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#165681 - 04/22/07 11:24 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: michael_d]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I like to bridge the two "science" vs. "faith" camps when I can. Faith, you say? Yes. If you think you hear a difference between Item A and Item B after a subjective listening session, but you haven't done any tests to verify that difference objectively and beyond any doubt -- this kind of testing is tedious and requires persistence, patience, and the right equipment -- then conclusively stating that a real difference does exist is like saying you can levitate rocks, but only when nobody is looking. That's what it seems like to a trained scientist or someone familiar with the scientific method, anyway.

Some people just take their science more seriously than others. If they offend you, it is your right to let them know. Just know that it hurts their brain when something is stated as fact without adequate verification.

Also remember that the only thing that matters at the end of the day, with respect to audio, is that you enjoy the music and/or movies. Some of us are fussy over the equipment. Others are happy as clams with their HTIBs or BOSE systems. Thank goodness for non uniformity.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#165682 - 04/23/07 12:10 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5443
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>The analog vs. digital connection discussion is a red herring in a way because all digital signals needs to get converted to analog somewhere in the equipment chain.

I think the analog vs. digital connection is relevant for the specific topic of comparing two CD players, but I agree in general you are going to want to optimize the configuration across the entire system, and changing one component may mean that you need to operate other components in a different way now for best results.

Now, ignoring all that for a moment...

How many people here believe that you can have an audible sound difference between players when playing CD if you are using a digital PCM connection to the receiver in both cases ? In other words, do we believe that the audible difference between players comes on the analog side or the digital side or both ?


Edited by bridgman (04/23/07 12:12 AM)

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#165683 - 04/23/07 12:25 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: bridgman]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Analog transfer is less reliable. In other words, you can be less sure that the signal on one end of the cable will be identical at the other end of the cable.

I came across the following enlightening forum post a couple weeks ago. It talks about HDMI cables, but the lesson applies to all cables.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&message.id=828972
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#165684 - 04/23/07 02:05 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
I don’t get all that worked up over these debates. I just know what I know and what I’ve heard and seen.

That being said, in my case…

I have two Sony mega changers and one Integra 8.5 universal player. They are all feeding my Rotel Pre/Pro analogue inputs. I’ve done this time and time again for myself, and anyone else who cares to listen. When I play the same CD in the Integra, it sounds better. I’ve actually taken disks with scratches on them, played the track with the most noise on the Sony, then in the Integra. The Sony will skip, stutter, and sometimes not play the track at all. The Integra plays it just fine. I've also swapped good sounding disks back and forth for freinds and they've always been able to tell a difference.

Is this imaginary?? Fantasy? Ignorance? Or just wishful thinking on my part?? Maybe….but I doubt it. I’m not an audiophile and if I can tell a difference, any of you serious listeners surely can tell a difference.
_________________________


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#165685 - 04/23/07 08:24 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6255
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Quote:

I like to bridge the two "science" vs. "faith" camps when I can. Faith, you say? Yes. If you think you hear a difference between Item A and Item B after a subjective listening session, but you haven't done any tests to verify that difference objectively and beyond any doubt -- this kind of testing is tedious and requires persistence, patience, and the right equipment -- then conclusively stating that a real difference does exist is like saying you can levitate rocks, but only when nobody is looking. That's what it seems like to a trained scientist or someone familiar with the scientific method, anyway.



Excellent post Peter.

Quote:

Some people just take their science more seriously than others. If they offend you, it is your right to let them know. Just know that it hurts their brain when something is stated as fact without adequate verification.



I am one who takes exception to stating opinion as fact. However, IMHO, having a sore brain (or even being right) does not justify, or excuse, temper tantrums, calling names, and hurling insults. The same is true for believers as well. It is possible to make your point or state your opinion without figuratively poking those who hold a differing opinion in the eye. To me, the "poking" part is simply selfish indulgence in spleen venting. And, as you say, it is anyone's right to let those who regularly indulge in such behavior know that their actions are offensive.

Quote:

Also remember that the only thing that matters at the end of the day, with respect to audio, is that you enjoy the music and/or movies. Some of us are fussy over the equipment. Others are happy as clams with their HTIBs or BOSE systems. Thank goodness for non uniformity.



Would it be possible to sticky this final paragraph at the top of every page of every audio forum on the internet? I hate it when someone is so wise at such a tender age.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#165686 - 04/23/07 09:43 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Ajax]
KlipschGuy Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/23/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Waterloo, On
Shawn, thanks for backing me up. Just to explain, I initialy was talking about other forums , not this one and therefore was not calling anyone names. Perhaps I could have written a more accurate post, i didn't think it was going to be taken so literally.

Anyway, if I have offended anyone, my apologies.

Chris


Edited by KlipschGuy (04/23/07 09:44 AM)
_________________________
Emotiva DMC1, MPS-1 ,M80v2 ,Klipsch RC64,Mirage Omni260 surrounds,Paradigm PW2200 sub

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#165687 - 04/23/07 11:50 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: bridgman]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
My comment was a general one in that I notice in these discussion alot of comments about digital connections vis a vis analog and which one sounds better. All digital signals need to be converted to analog somewhere in order for us to hear sounds.

If all we are using dvd/cd players as transports (ie digital read of the disk and digital transmission to a processor) there should be no difference at all since the processor is doing the digital to analog conversion not the players. If we compare two identical players and use one as a transport and connect the other by rca or XLR cables, it is possible there could be a sonic difference if the DAC chip in the player is different than the one used in the processor and secondly depending on how well the player or processor minimizes distortion or other interference from internal power transformers or RF from internal circuitry.

Similarly if we connect two different players side by side and use similar analog connections into the same processor it is possible to hear a difference because of there different engineering and specs. We would be relying on the players chips and circuits to convert from digital to analog sound. There should be no difference if we use digital connections to the processor since we are bypassing the player DACs.

So if you are happy with the sound of your receiver/processor it is a waste to buy anything other than a cheap player or use anything other than a dvd player .
_________________________
John

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#165688 - 04/23/07 12:26 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
I hear things in binary.
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#165689 - 04/23/07 01:37 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: danmagicman7]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Quote:

I hear things in binary.



0100100100100000
011001000110111101101110001001110111010000100000
0110011001110101011000110110101101101001011011100110011100100000
0110001001100101011011000110100101100101011101100110010100100000
01111001011011110111010100101110


ok, ok. I'll make it easy for you.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#165690 - 04/23/07 01:50 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
John,

I’m wondering if the transport can / can not make a difference though. I know for a fact that it does in video, but what about audio??

For example. Some of the video purists modify dvd players with a SDI connection to where the raw 480i data is pulled off the disk directly and then sent to the downstream video processor. The guys who do these mods search high and low for a dvd player with great MPEG decoder. A few of the older Panasonics are on their short list for this mod (and others).The new Oppo 981 and 970 are also being touted as having great decoders (they share the same decoder whereas the 971 had something different). I’m actually considering having a guy do this modification to a 981 I have. I bought a 970 because it was one of the very few dvd players that have true 480i via HDMI to send to my video processor. But I recently found out that it doesn’t send a raw data stream. The 970 sends 480i at 4:4:4 and the data on the disk is 4:2:2, so the machine is doing something to it.

So taking that into consideration, wouldn’t the same logic apply to audio?
_________________________


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#165691 - 04/23/07 03:31 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: michael_d]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
You raise a good point Mike, one which I have seen before. It reminds me of the long threads about whether you get less artifacts with 8 bit 4:4:4 processing or 10 bit 4:2:2 processing. I think I've developed a permanent squint looking for the difference but I've convinced myself there are fewer problems with 10 bit.

I can see the difference between MPEG decoders. On the Oppos, hdmi720p using the FL2310 decoders in the 971/981 looks better with less grain and artifacts than the Mediatek decoder in the 970 at same resolution. I've played with all the Oppos and looked closely at them on my 720p projector and 1080p display. Where do you want to do the interlacing and upconverting, at the player or in the display? Same issue we were discussing above with audio and with the same answer, it depends where you have the better chip, circuitry and processing.

I know people concern themselves with jitter and loss of data in digital transmission but I doubt that's an issue with the better designed players, dvd or cd. Most of the internal firmware in these things has sophisticated error correction algorithms to deal with that potential problem, so how many ones and zeros can you possibly lose anyway? In that regard, I had fun with some fellow audio enthusiasts last winter to see if we could hear or see any difference with uncompressed copied cds/dvds. Needless to say no one could tell the difference and the guy who swore he could tell the difference ended up buying the drinks.

Whether the Oppo mod is worthwhile depends on how good your display is at video processing. Most good players like the Oppo have better chips/processing than most 720p/1080i displays I have seen. On the other hand if you use a 1080p display or plan to buy one eventually, it may be more productive to let the display upconvert to 1080p and run the 970 at hdmi480i.

While it may not be representative, I thought the upconverted 970 hdmi480i image wasn't as good as the the 971/981 hdmi720pimages. That was also confirmed when my ISF guy scoped the 970 hdmi480i with his accupel and there were some strange jiggles on his test patterns that weren't there at other resolutions. So I sold it.

I'm about to spring for a Toshiba hd-dvd XA2 because Toshiba has implemented that killer Gennum chip into its processing.
_________________________
John

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#165692 - 04/23/07 03:37 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
01010100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01110111 01100001 01110011 00100000 01101000 01101001 01101100 01100001 01110010 01101001 01101111 01110101 01110011 00100001
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#165693 - 04/23/07 03:48 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
01011001011101010111000000101110001000000010000000100000010011100110111100100000011011000110111101110011011100110010000001101111011001100010000001101111011011100110010101110011001000000110000101101110011001000010000001111010011001010111001001101111011100110010000001110111011010010111010001101000001000000111010001101000011010010111001100101110001000000010000000100000010001110110111101101111011001000010000001101111011011100110010100100000010100000110010101110100011001010111001000101110
_________________________
John

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#165694 - 04/23/07 03:50 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
HomeDad Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 3301
Loc: Central,California
Quote:

I'm about to spring for a Toshiba hd-dvd XA2 because Toshiba has implemented that killer Gennum chip into its processing.



Wow, I just purchased that on Amazon not 10 minutes ago, they had the best deal I could find at $555.00 with free shipping.
_________________________
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.

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#165695 - 04/23/07 04:44 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: HomeDad]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
wow...that'a pretty cheap considering they were $900 a couple months ago.

John,

I'm currently using the 970. Sending 480i to a DVDO VP-50. Out from that is 1080P / 24 fps / 24 htz to my projector (1000U). The image is pretty dam good. Not HD/BR good, but dam good nontheless. Seeing how I've got around 800 SD/DVD's, I'm considering modifying a 981 with the Serial Data Interface. I'd like the SD/DVD's to look as good as possible seeing how I don't want to re-invest into all HD/BR at $25 or so a pop.

Here's a thread on it at AVS. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=828704

What in the hell did you X and O geeks do to my monitor???? The stinkin lines go on forever instead of rapping into paragraphs. - now that's iritating.
_________________________


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#165696 - 04/23/07 04:57 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: michael_d]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Yes that is a great deal seeing how AVS charged me $650 a few weeks ago. That new toshiba is supposed to do a fantastic job processing SD DVD as well so you may want to go with it instead.

I don't know if I contributed to the reformatting of the window image with my binary post. If so, sorry for the inconvenience.
_________________________
John

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#165697 - 04/23/07 04:58 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
That's what did it. It also happens when people post images that are too big or links that are too long.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#165698 - 04/23/07 05:01 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
JaimeG Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 556
Loc: Ashburn, VA
01100100 01110101 01100100 01100101 01110011 00101100 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110
01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100100 01100101 01100011 01100101
01101110 01100011 01111001 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100001 01100100 01100100
00100000 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101111
00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010
01111001 00100000 01100011 01101111 01100100 01100101 00101100 00100000 01110011 01101111
01101101 01100101 00100000 01110000 01100101 01101111 01110000 01101100 01100101 00100000
01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101101 01110000 01101100 01100001
01101001 01101110 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 00111010 00101001
_________________________
The sailor does not pray for wind, he learns to sail. --Lindborg

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#165699 - 04/23/07 05:04 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: JaimeG]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
010001110110111101110100001000000
110100101110100001000000110111001

101111011101110010111000100000001

000000011101000101000
_________________________
John

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#165700 - 04/23/07 05:13 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
01010100 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101111 01110010 01110011 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100100 01101111 00101110 00100000 01001100 01101001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01110100 01100001 01101100 01101011 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01100001 01100010 01101111 01110101 01110100 00100000 01100011 01100001 01100010 01101100 01100101 01110011 00101110
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#165701 - 04/23/07 06:31 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Ken.C]
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
01000100 01101111 01100101 01110011 00100000 01100001 01101110 01111001 01101111 01101110 01100101 00100000 01100101 01101100 01110011 01100101 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110011 01110101 01100100 01100100 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110101 01110010 01100111 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110010 01101111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01100001 01110010 01101111 01110101 01101110 01100100 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110000 01100001 01100111 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100000 01110100 01100101 01111000 01110100 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01100111 01101100 01100101 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110000 01110000 01101001 01101110 01100101 01110011 01110011 00111111
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#165702 - 04/23/07 06:34 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: danmagicman7]
JaimeG Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 556
Loc: Ashburn, VA
01101110 01101111 01110000 01100101 00101100 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000
01110010 01100101 01100001 01101100 01101100 01111001 00101110 00100000 00111010 00101001
_________________________
The sailor does not pray for wind, he learns to sail. --Lindborg

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#165703 - 04/23/07 06:40 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: JaimeG]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
01000010
01100101
01110100
01110100
01100101
01110010
00100000
01110100
01101000
01100001
01101110
00100000
01100001
01110010
01100111
01110101
01101001
01101110
01100111
00100000
01100001
01100010
01101111
01110101
01110100
00100000
01000011
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00100000
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01100001
01111001
01100101
01110010
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00101110
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#165704 - 04/23/07 07:24 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Ken.C]
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
00110001 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110000 00110000 00110000 00110000 00110001 00110001 00110001 00110001 00110001 00110000 00110000 00110000 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110000 00110000 00110000 00110000 00110001 00110001 00110000 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110000 00110001 00110000 00110000 00110000 00110000 00110001 00110001 00110001 00110001
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#165705 - 04/23/07 07:27 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Ken.C]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
Haven't you guys just about pegged the geekometer, now?

And, no, that certainly would NOT be my first choice of things to roll around in.


_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#165706 - 04/23/07 07:30 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: tomtuttle]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
4e 6f 74 20 72 65 61 6c 6c 79 2e 20 49 27 76 65 20 67 6f 74 20 73 6f 6d 65 20 6d 6f 72 65 2e 20
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#165707 - 04/23/07 07:35 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Ken.C]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13344
Loc: Iowa
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun

Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun

Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun

Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun

Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun

Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun

Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#165708 - 04/23/07 07:35 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: SirQuack]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
84 119 111 32 97 108 108 32 98 101 101 102 32 112 97 116 116 105 101 115 44 32 115 112 101 99 105 97 108 32 115 97 117 99 101 44 32 108 101 116 116 117 99 101 44 32 99 104 101 101 115 101 44 32 112 105 99 107 108 101 115 44 32 111 110 105 111 110 115 32 111 110 32 97 32 115 101 115 97 109 101 32 115 101 101 100 32 98 117 110
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#165709 - 04/23/07 10:03 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Ken.C]
AdamP88 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 639
Loc: Omaha, NE
Wow. Did everyone receive their pocket protectors today or something?




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#165710 - 04/23/07 10:05 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: AdamP88]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
My bad.

The funny thing is, I'm too damn lazy to decode the messages, so I have no idea what they're all talking about.

Hopefully not my mother.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#165711 - 04/23/07 10:16 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
I had one about rolling about gleefully in pages of printed binary.

That was the only one worth decoding.
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#165712 - 04/23/07 10:24 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: danmagicman7]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3922
Loc: Up yonder
What's this place coming to? Spell / Grammer checking teanaged girls and now this.

They're no longer Geaks Tom, they have crossed over to dorkdome.
_________________________


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#165713 - 04/24/07 12:20 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: michael_d]
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
We're not dorks...



That guy is!
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#165714 - 04/24/07 12:52 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: danmagicman7]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Hmmmm. Most appropriate for this thread is 00000000.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#165715 - 04/24/07 06:31 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: JohnK]
jakeman Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
For those of you who forgot to order your pocket protectors.

http://www.geekboys.com/geekwear.html
_________________________
John

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#165716 - 04/24/07 08:05 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: danmagicman7]
GrammarBot Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 12
You're right, Dan.

You're rubber, he's glue.
_________________________
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

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#165717 - 04/24/07 11:40 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: jakeman]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
Ah, I love the smell of faux-elitism in the morning.


As opposed to what I (and the other geeks) were practicing: real-elitism.

I just happen to like codes and the like. Here's a cool converter tool if you want to find out what we were saying. Nothing of consequence.

U3RpbGwgYmV0dGVyIHRoYW4gYXJndWluZyBhYm91dCBDRCBwbGF5ZXJzLCB0aG91Z2guIA==
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#165718 - 04/26/07 12:26 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: Ken.C]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5443
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Two pages of posts in binary and we're complaining about the Bot Brothers ?

Geez, I only went away for a couple of days, what happened ?

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#165719 - 04/26/07 02:16 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: bridgman]
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
Peter happened.
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#165720 - 04/26/07 08:41 AM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: danmagicman7]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16298
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Peter happens.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#165721 - 04/26/07 12:07 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: pmbuko]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8305
Loc: Tacoma
A big, steaming pile of Peter?
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#165722 - 04/26/07 01:02 PM Re: Auditioned CD Player in my HT last night [Re: tomtuttle]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6404
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
"Old truckers never die, they just get a new Peterbilt?"
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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