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#173738 - 08/04/07 12:00 AM Re: M3's and in-ceiling mounting ? [Re: Ken.C]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
I agree with you Ken on all counts. I suppose if he has 2 x 12's in his rafters it might be deep enough, but would most likely sound like crap.
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M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#173739 - 08/04/07 02:41 AM Re: M3's and in-ceiling mounting ? [Re: SirQuack]
Jas_M Offline
regular

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 6
Alright fellas, you've talked me out of the in-ceiling idea, however, I really am in a bind. Do you guys think mounting the QS-8's facing down from the ceiling will work? (see rough sketch below)



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#173740 - 08/04/07 03:43 AM Re: M3's and in-ceiling mounting ? [Re: Jas_M]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10305
JM, welcome. Sure, mounting them on the ceiling facing downward would work if you secure them so that they don't slide off of the mounting bracket. Since they're side surrounds they should be separated as much as possible, to within a few inches of the side walls, rather than the more inward spot shown in your sketch.
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#173741 - 08/04/07 08:13 AM Re: M3's and in-ceiling mounting ? [Re: Mojo]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6212
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

I use direct radiators for my rears, and am considering moving them to my bedroom system and replacing them with dipoles that match my side surrounds.




Why? What are you unhappy about?



I don't think "unhappy" is quite the right word.

It is my opinion, and my opinion only, that if one uses 7.1 exclusively for HT, then multichannel speakers in the rear would provide a more satifying HT experience than using direct radiating speakers in the rear.

I put direct radiators in the rear because I love SACDs and DVDAs, and the common wisdom is that all speakers should be direct radiators when listening to multichannel music. The problem is that the correct position for direct radiating surrounds when listening to multichannel music is not where the surrounds should be for 7.1 movies. For multichannel music they should be approximately in the same location as your side surrounds, but at the same height as your mains and center.



So, either you are forced to be constantly moving your rear surrounds (depending on what you're listening to), or you live with your surrounds being in the wrong location part of the time.

I've got another reason for putting dipoles in the rear, but it only applies to me. When I started listening to multichannel music, I had a 5.1 setup only, with QS8s as my surrounds. I became accustomed to the sound of SACDs and DVDAs using multipolar surrounds mounted higher than they were supposed to be. I like it more than I like direct radiators in the correct position.

What I like multichannel music to do is expand the soundstage and give me the feeling I'm in a concert hall. I am not fond of the "you're in the middle of the band" feeling (ironic, since I was a professional musician ), and the multipolar speakers, mounted higher than recommended, minimize that 'middle of the band feeling,' should the disc happen to be mixed that way.

So, yes, shame on me for not doing things they way they were intended. But, it's my room, my speakers, and my choice. YMMV.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#173742 - 08/04/07 08:16 AM Re: M3's and in-ceiling mounting ? [Re: Ken.C]
Ajax Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6212
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Quote:

Jack, my comment wasn't directed at your post.



OOPS! My bad, Ken. (How's that for an old guy sounding hip. I used to be 'hip' ya know. Now I'm just 'hippy' . Come to think of it, I used to be one of those too, or is that spelled 'hippie'? ) Since your post said "RE: Ajax", I assumed your comment was directed toward me.
_________________________
Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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#173743 - 08/04/07 11:15 AM Re: M3's and in-ceiling mounting ? [Re: Jas_M]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13311
Loc: Iowa
You could do that, but I'd be concerned that the seperation from the left/right sides. With the tweeters firing to the left/right as designed you are enveloped in the sound. With them firing down, that is a different story.

I still don't see why you can't mount them on the sides, either to the front or behind the listener. They are very forgiving. If your considering mounting them flush, your not going to lose a lot by mounting them as you should, other than needing to leave a few inches for the top driver to breath.

Can you provide a picture or drawing of your side walls so we can understand your situation?
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#173744 - 08/04/07 02:45 PM Re: M3's and in-ceiling mounting ? [Re: Ajax]
tomtuttle Online   happy
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8130
Loc: Tacoma
Quote:

Now I'm just 'hippy'




Yeah, but you're 100% organic, not Titanium Man.
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bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#173745 - 08/04/07 02:57 PM Re: M3's and in-ceiling mounting ? [Re: tomtuttle]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10670
Loc: Central NH
You guys sure can go OT easily.

What does Jack's big hips have to do with anything?
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#173746 - 08/04/07 07:53 PM Re: M3's and in-ceiling mounting ? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Jas_M Offline
regular

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 6
As requested here is a picture of the side view.



Please forgive my poor sketching skills, but as you can see I can mount the LEFT surround perfectly on the wall, but the RIGHT surround is a lost cause. Because of this, I would rather have both go in-ceiling/on-ceiling for uniformity.

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#173747 - 08/04/07 08:13 PM Re: M3's and in-ceiling mounting ? [Re: Ajax]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3820
Loc: Up yonder
While Iím a definite proponent for rear surrounds in a 7.1 system, Iím beginning to think itís over rated for HT and you could throw up just about anything to exploit whatever garbled noise gets sent to them. I have been considering swapping out my M3ís for another set of QS-8ís, because the M3ís are just too darn big and look out of place for my small room. Well the other day I was chasing a possible wiring issue and ended up with just the Surround backs (M3ís) hooked up to my receiver. Has anyone ever done this?? If you havenít, do itÖ A PLIIx matrixed movie sends nothing but a mess of un-intelligible noise to these speakers. I donít care what you put up to reproduce this garbage, itís still just garbage. The only thing that sounded pretty darn good was when I put in my trusty SACD Dark Side of the Moon, and also a few Discrete 6.1 DVDís and two 6.1 Blue Ray DVDís I have. The sound coming from the back surrounds was much more identifiable and not just noise. So from my little science project with the rear surrounds, I wouldnít get too excited over the speaker you use, just use something. Ė Donít waste your money Jack. Try listening to just the backs first. You may change your mind.
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