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#177573 - 10/01/07 02:40 PM
Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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I have Axiom setup with a Harmon Kardon AVR635. M22's, QS8's, VP150, and a EP500.
When I watch HD-DVD or DVD movies at loud volumes sometimes the voices come across with a raspy-ness and harshness during conversations. I've read that it might be the receiver being too "bright". I often find myself turning the treble way down to alleviate the problem.
Anything I can do/check to help this out?
Thanks for any help!
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177575 - 10/01/07 03:17 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Hm.. Well if you ask my wife it's WAY TO LOUD. But in all honestly I wouldn't think at the volume I'm talking about would push the reciever to the max. Loud enough to give the theater effect. But still alot of volume to go on the reciever knob. Does that answer the question? And how would I know if I was pushing the reciever to much?
Thanks!
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177576 - 10/01/07 03:49 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
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Quote:
And how would I know if I was pushing the reciever to much?
Raspiness and harshness for one. It may sound like I'm trying to be funny but I'm really not. Unless you have an oscilloscope to see clipped waveforms, your ears are the best judge.
Does the tone control help? If so, you're likely not over-driving it.
You said "sometimes" which leads be to believe that your HK's 75W are being taken to task during movies that have large dynamics. Or, maybe you have a damaged tweeter or amplifier channel.
Turn your speakers off and then turn each one on all by its lonesome. Any raspiness or kazooing from one and not another could be an indication of tweeter damage. Replace that speaker with another and if the kazooing moves with the speaker, tweeter damage is probable. If not, that particular HK channel has a problem.
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#177579 - 10/01/07 04:58 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: RickF]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Thanks everyone.
I definitely don't turn it up to the Max volume. I really don’t think I’m straining the receiver. If the volume was more close to full tilt I would definitely feel that may be the cause.
When I say sometimes I mean it depends on the movie and the person talking I guess. Depending on the deepness of the voice of the person it could sound like they are whispering. Hope that makes sense. I want to make it clear that it's not every movie or voice. And it's usually only noticeable when there is a conversation without much background noise. I distinctly remember a scene in the latest Mission Impossible movie when Tom Cruise is talking to his wife near the fridge in the kitchen. It was very evident something was strange with the sound. It sounded like he was whispering with a “hissing” at the end of the words.
Adjusting the Treble helps but does not solve the problem. And obviously hurts the sounds overall.
So if this is a possible bad tweeter what other tips are helpful in locating it? What else could it possibly be if not a tweeter or strained receiver?
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177581 - 10/01/07 05:35 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3247
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
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If it is just for some movies, it could also be that you are victim of extra highs in the sound material itself added to compensate for movie theaters size and number of people. Does your receiver have a "re-eq" feature to compensate? With many movies meant for big, big screens (Harry Potter, X-Men and so on), I have exagerated "s" until I turn the re-eq to on.
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!
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#177583 - 10/01/07 07:25 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: EFalardeau]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Ok. So I went on a hunt for a damaged tweeter or driver and came up with nothing. I couldn't hear any differences between them.
I also remember another well known music DVD where I experienced this problem. It's the Eagles Farewell Tour: Live From Melbourne. What an amazing sounding DVD btw. I listen to it set on DTS and I could hear the harshness with the highs.
Anyone with the H/K 635 know of a "re-eq" setting? I'm going to hunt for it.
Thanks again everyone.
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177584 - 10/01/07 07:32 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: jbsengineer]
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axiomite
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
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Quote:
Anyone with the H/K 635 know of a "re-eq" setting? I'm going to hunt for it.
JB I did a 5 or 10 minute quick through of my 635 manual and didn't come up with anything regarding the equalization that either Eric or Mojo is referring to...maybe a more thorough search will yield something.
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#177585 - 10/01/07 07:55 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: RickF]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
Quote:
Anyone with the H/K 635 know of a "re-eq" setting? I'm going to hunt for it.
JB I did a 5 or 10 minute quick through of my 635 manual and didn't come up with anything regarding the equalization that either Eric or Mojo is referring to...maybe a more thorough search will yield something.
I Couldn't find anything either unfortunately.
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177587 - 10/01/07 08:05 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
Do you have your grills on or off?
Right now, off (Because I was trying to find a bad tweeter or driver). Usually they are on.
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177588 - 10/01/07 08:12 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: EFalardeau]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
If it is just for some movies, it could also be that you are victim of extra highs in the sound material itself added to compensate for movie theaters size and number of people. Does your receiver have a "re-eq" feature to compensate? With many movies meant for big, big screens (Harry Potter, X-Men and so on), I have exagerated "s" until I turn the re-eq to on.
That's exactly how I would refer to it... Exagerated "s".
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177589 - 10/01/07 08:20 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3247
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
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This won't help much, but at least the letters "Re-Eq" are now well identified to be a THX trademark! (no kidding). Onko Asia's Web-site (I have an 805) says the "very helpful"  following: "Re-Equalization (Re-EQ™) Movies are mixed for large cinemas, where the speakers are placed farther away from the listener. THX Re-EQ re-establishes the accuracy of the tonal balance for close-range home theater speakers. Without THX Re-EQ, higher frequencies sound excessively edgy or bright." Too bad they don't mention EXACTLY which frequencies and by how much. That would allow you to either just play with trebble settings or, if you have an equilizer, use its more precise knobs. You may want to look it up on THX web-sites (if such a thing exists).
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!
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#177590 - 10/01/07 08:22 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: jbsengineer]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13145
Loc: Iowa
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Not familiar with the HK's but do they eq settings like the Denon's auto setup? If so turn them off, in my opinion. My Axioms had to much midrange sound when using the auto eq.
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M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana
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#177591 - 10/01/07 08:38 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: PorterPlex]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
Not familiar with the HK's but do they eq settings like the Denon's auto setup? If so turn them off, in my opinion. My Axioms had to much midrange sound when using the auto eq.
So the plot thickens. Because your not familar with the H/K's you probably don't know the answer to this question. I'm hoping someone familar with the H/K's will know this. I used the Auto EQ to initially. It set the speaker delay, size, etc. However the current setting is Ez Eq: Off. Also most of the settings I adjusted which turned EZ Setup settings off. So I would assume any Equalizer settings are off.
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177592 - 10/01/07 08:39 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: PorterPlex]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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BTW, Hi sirquack!
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177594 - 10/01/07 08:58 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: jbsengineer]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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I don't suppose its just some poorly recorded sections in the movie and the system is just exposing it as such?
_________________________
Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#177595 - 10/01/07 09:40 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: jakewash]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
I don't suppose its just some poorly recorded sections in the movie and the system is just exposing it as such?
At first I assumed as such. But it's has become apparent to me that it's too consistent of a problem to be poor recordings. Atleast I think so.
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177596 - 10/01/07 09:52 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: Mojo]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13145
Loc: Iowa
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Having the Denon EQ (or any other brand) on after autosetup CAN affect the sound of the speakers, especially at higher levels. And that goes for modes other than DD or DTS. After initial setup, with EQ turned on, my m60's sounded to harsh sounding because the midrange/high frequencies were enhanced by the eq settings.
After turning these features off and using a non altered signal, the music sounded natural and true to the source.
That goes the same for tone controls in my opinion.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana
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#177598 - 10/01/07 11:45 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: jbsengineer]
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axiomite
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 9975
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JB, even those who like to create imaginary sound flavors for receivers would put the HK in their "warm" list rather than their "bright" one, so you can disregard what you read on that point.
If you have EZEq off, that can't be part of the problem, but you might try the EQ process on the chance that it would help(which some users report)rather than hurt.
As was mentioned, Re-Eq is a proprietary THX process to reduce high frequencies in some movies which sound excessive in home listening. The 635 isn't THX and doesn't have it, but applying some treble cut with the tone control on offending material has a somewhat similar effect.
If you've checked carefully enough for a damaged tweeter(my first suspicion), it would appear that some of the material just has too much treble for your listening room(or you should listen to your wife and turn it down).
_________________________
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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#177599 - 10/02/07 12:00 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: JohnK]
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connoisseur
Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3600
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
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Quote:
JB, even those who like to create imaginary sound flavors for receivers would put the HK in their "warm" list rather than their "bright" one
Can I get mine in Brighterscotch Ripple?
Bren R.
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#177600 - 10/02/07 12:07 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: BrenR]
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making
Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 10801
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
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Quote:
Can I get mine in Brighterscotch Ripple?
Mmmm, what a deliciously disturbed waveform.
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#177602 - 10/02/07 09:41 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: jbsengineer]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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I'm going to try the EZEQ setting to see if I hear an improvement.
Just to double check. What should my crossover's be set at?
Does anyone know of this feature inside the Dolby Digital setup called Night Mode? It's set at the "Mid" setting.
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177605 - 10/02/07 10:42 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
JBS,
you might be more happy with a couple of M2s wired in parallel, or a couple of M22 centre channels. (vertically orientated of course).
just a suggestion.
Hm.. How come?
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177606 - 10/02/07 10:55 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
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Quote:
Hm.. How come?
Some people prefer the sound of the Axiom bookshelves compared to the axiom centre channel. I have heard both the VP150, and my dual centre M2s...I like the sound of the dual M2s better...the VP150 sounded just as you described...at least to my ears. It doesn't matter to my father-in-law, which is why I suggested the VP150 centre for his room.
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#177608 - 10/02/07 11:25 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright"...
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
Yep, that's exactly what night mode is.
You said "...it got to the point where I wanted to do something about it.". Does this mean that this problem has been getting worse?
No. I wouldn't say that. I would say it didn't bother me that much at first. But time and time again I had to low the treble to the point I decided to post a question.
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177609 - 10/02/07 11:30 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
Quote:
Hm.. How come?
Some people prefer the sound of the Axiom bookshelves compared to the axiom centre channel. I have heard both the VP150, and my dual centre M2s...I like the sound of the dual M2s better...the VP150 sounded just as you described...at least to my ears. It doesn't matter to my father-in-law, which is why I suggested the VP150 centre for his room.
Interesting. Would switching the VP150 channel with the M22 channel give me a hint that it could be the overall sound of the VP150?
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177610 - 10/02/07 11:50 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
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Quote:
Interesting. Would switching the VP150 channel with the M22 channel give me a hint that it could be the overall sound of the VP150?
Yes it would. if you can situate the M22 vertically, it would be best. IF you like the M22, you will like the M2.
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#177611 - 10/02/07 01:55 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Northern NJ
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Since I've been using essentially the same setup for several years (Harmon Kardon AVR635, M22's, QS8's, VP150), I'll chime in. John is right in that the 635 does not have the THX Re-EQ option.
I don't know how long your night mode has been at 'mid', but that should definitely be off, unless you truly are using it with the intention that it was designed for. Turning night mode off seriously might rectify your problem.
I use the H/K auto-EQ on more than off, and do find it useful. As discussed, perhaps try using that again.
Maybe try some resistors in the VP150 and see if that tames the harshness of the tweeters you are hearing.
Bottom line, with my system, I've never noticed a pattern of the problem you're describing. Sure, a particular DVD or CD might have a little harshness, but that is more the source. So something sounds a little strange in your case. Hope you can figure it out.
Edited by gem41573 (10/02/07 01:58 PM)
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#177612 - 10/02/07 02:45 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Yes it would. if you can situate the M22 vertically, it would be best. IF you like the M22, you will like the M2.
We must get together to try all the different speakers we have as centers, VP100,VP150,M2,M3,M22,M60 and get Mojo to bring an M80! I think this would give us an extremely good idea as to which would make the best center for most people.
_________________________
Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#177613 - 10/02/07 03:07 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: gem41573]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
Since I've been using essentially the same setup for several years (Harmon Kardon AVR635, M22's, QS8's, VP150), I'll chime in. John is right in that the 635 does not have the THX Re-EQ option.
I don't know how long your night mode has been at 'mid', but that should definitely be off, unless you truly are using it with the intention that it was designed for. Turning night mode off seriously might rectify your problem.
I use the H/K auto-EQ on more than off, and do find it useful. As discussed, perhaps try using that again.
Maybe try some resistors in the VP150 and see if that tames the harshness of the tweeters you are hearing.
Bottom line, with my system, I've never noticed a pattern of the problem you're describing. Sure, a particular DVD or CD might have a little harshness, but that is more the source. So something sounds a little strange in your case. Hope you can figure it out.
I'll switch Night mode to OFF first thing. When you run the auto-EQ setup doesn't this force the speaker "sizes"? Once you adjust it manully it automatically turns the auto-EQ off?
Edited by jbsengineer (10/02/07 03:09 PM)
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177614 - 10/02/07 04:00 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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veteran
Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Northern NJ
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Quote:
I'll switch Night mode to OFF first thing. When you run the auto-EQ setup doesn't this force the speaker "sizes"? Once you adjust it manully it automatically turns the auto-EQ off?
Honestly, I haven't run the auto-EQ in years, but from what I recall, it requires plenty of fine tuning. If I recall, I would run it in auto mode, it would set my speakers to large and with funky crossovers, then I'd manually set my speakers to small with the crossovers I wanted (80hz for M22's, and then 80 or 100 for the VP150 and QS8s (I can't remember)), and then I'd re-run the EQ in manual mode. Then everything should be set up the way you want it, and the EQ should be on.
If it turns it off, then just go into setup and turn the EQ on. The beauty is, it is pretty easy to switch back and forth, so you can see if you like it on or off.
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#177617 - 10/02/07 08:57 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: gem41573]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Ok. The auto EQ is horrible. I tried it a few times and everytime I turned it on it was a substantial decrease in audio quality. Not to mention my problem got worse.
Watched a few different clips of movies tonight in Dolby Digital and DTS. The hissing, exaggerated ssssss, or the whisperyness was still very evident. If I listen carefully to each speaker it's definetly from each one. So it seems it's either the speakers... or the reciever. Since knowone else with a 635 seems to have this issue or atleast gets bothered by it... I'm not sure what to do. Frustrating...
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177618 - 10/02/07 09:03 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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A1400-8, nuf said?
_________________________
Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#177620 - 10/02/07 09:15 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jakewash]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
A1400-8, nuf said?
Wife.... nuf said
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177621 - 10/02/07 09:17 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: RickF]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
I'm thinking a processor and not an amp is what JB may be in need of at the moment ... sounds like maybe a receiver issue to me.
What are you thinking? Try a different reciever?
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177623 - 10/02/07 09:32 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3292
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Quote:
If I listen carefully to each speaker it's definetly from each one.
Which speakers are you referring to? All of them or just specific ones?
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#177624 - 10/02/07 09:36 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: RickF]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Hm... I don't know anyone that has a decent reciever either.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177625 - 10/02/07 09:37 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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The fronts. The M22's and the VP150.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177627 - 10/02/07 09:47 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Yes... I would have to find different guage wire though.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177628 - 10/02/07 10:00 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
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Even a bad receiver might help you eliminate either the speakers or the receiver from the equation. Perhaps you could take your M22s and/or receiver to an audio shop and ask to hook them up to see if they have something that sounds better. This could help you troubleshoot and if you find the problem you’ll already be in a place to start looking for a solution. Quote:
Ok. The auto EQ is horrible. I tried it a few times and everytime I turned it on it was a substantial decrease in audio quality. Not to mention my problem got worse.
Since the problem got worse with the auto EQ on is it possible that your receiver is set to apply a manual EQ that just isn’t as bad. I had a similar problem with the auto EQ on my Denon making my center mostly and main somewhat sound hollow or weak and tinny with exenterated hissing sounds from some male voices. It was caused by the auto EQ clobbering the lower vocal frequency range which it automatically copied to the manual EQ when I first used it. This also only showed up in the three front and the QS8s I suspect because there just weren’t many male voices coming from the surrounds.
Dean
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3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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#177630 - 10/03/07 12:11 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Quote:
A1400-8, nuf said?
Wife.... nuf said
I think mine is holding back the "...you bought those so now I get to go buy something...."
Edited by jakewash (10/03/07 12:11 AM)
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Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#177634 - 10/03/07 11:12 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
jbs,
is this problem with all the speakers or just the VP150? I highly suggest trying out the M22 centre to see if you like it.
Hey Hutzal,
It definetly sounds like it's an overall soundstage problem. I'm thinking about disconnecting the center and seeing what results I get though. I may do that tonight.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177636 - 10/03/07 11:33 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Wired in phase?
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#177637 - 10/03/07 11:36 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
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Quote:
Wired in phase?
positive from speaker to positive on receiver, negative on speaker to negative on receiver.
Its probably smart to double check just to make sure they are all connected properly.
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#177638 - 10/03/07 11:37 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Gotchya. Might as well. I remember being very careful. But who knows.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177639 - 10/03/07 11:41 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making
Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 10801
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
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Quote:
I remember being very careful. But who knows.
Yeah, who knows. My parents were very careful, too, and then they had me.
Not really, but I'm trying to add to my mythology.
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#177640 - 10/03/07 12:27 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: CV]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Let me throw this out there. All my tests from quality music, DVD's, etc come from a Xbox DVD/HD-DVD player. I'm using an Xbox Monster cable/Optical cable. Is it all possible a source problem?
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177642 - 10/03/07 12:39 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Let me throw this out there. All my tests from quality music, DVD's, etc come from a Xbox DVD/HD-DVD player. I'm using an Xbox Monster cable/Optical cable. Is it all possible a source problem?
I have found when I use my DVD player as my source for my music, the cds all have a little to much brightness and when I use my cd player with analog output they sound smoother, whether or not it is due to the digital out I don't know but both players have virtually the sam especs for their cd playing ability, ie. Signal to noise ratio, etc.
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Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#177643 - 10/03/07 12:53 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
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Quote:
Let me throw this out there. All my tests from quality music, DVD's, etc come from a Xbox DVD/HD-DVD player. I'm using an Xbox Monster cable/Optical cable. Is it all possible a source problem?
You can try to connect the right left of the xbox outputs to the "CD" inputs on your receiver, and it should get the signal regardless of the fact that optical is connected as well.
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#177644 - 10/03/07 01:01 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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I'm sure the audio will then be so mucky it won't matter.
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#177645 - 10/03/07 02:19 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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This latest idea of the source just made me realize I need to try the M60s with the DVD player. I will report later.....
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Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#177646 - 10/03/07 06:45 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
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Quote:
I'm sure the audio will then be so mucky it won't matter.
It technically SHOULD be cleaner, as you are using left and right coaxial inputs.
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#177647 - 10/03/07 07:45 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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But won't I lose the Dolby Digital, DTS, etc?
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#177648 - 10/03/07 07:56 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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The xbox only has the component and optical cables. I'll have to find the original xbox cable with the left right composites.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177649 - 10/03/07 08:37 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jakewash]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
This latest idea of the source just made me realize I need to try the M60s with the DVD player. I will report later.....
FWIW, I did find the mids/uppers a little more distinct with the digital off the dvd player compared to the analog cd player, but not enough to come close to the M22 using analog.
I did hear more sibilance on the digital feed when using the M22s alone.
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Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#177651 - 10/03/07 09:25 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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So I did ALOT of testing tonight and found the following: *Sirius via Anaglog composites had no harshness with music *CD's via the Xbox DVD player had no harshness whatsoever *Eagles Farewell tour DVD had alot of harshness and exaggerated "SSSSS"'s from voices when cranked loud. This came from the entire soundstage. *HD-DVD and DVD movies with quality Dolby Digital audio have harshness and exaggerated "SSSSS"'s. Only when the voices are solo. The sound is amazing otherwise. When I cranked the treble way down to about -8 it really helped with the harshness when watching the movies. It didn't seem to effect the overall audio. On the Eagles DVD it really hurt the overall audio when I did that even though it improved the harshness of the voices. I did give the Auto-EQ another try and found it helped the problem with harshness if I gave it a -5 tilt. However this significantly lowered the overall volume and pretty much took most of the lower freqencies out. This left me without a sub,  . My listening position is directly in front of the VP150 about 10 feet back. If I move about 4 feet to the left or right the harshness decreases but is still evident. Instead of disconnecting the center I lowered it's output to the max -10. This obviously helped but it was still evident. And it was horrible without a center... I'm still looking to try another reciever. And plug a M22 into the center instead of the vp150. So it looks like good quality audio with no background noise really shows the harshness of voices during conversation. I must say I'm frustrated at this point, .
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177652 - 10/03/07 10:39 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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axiomite
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 9975
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JB, enough strands can simply be trimmed off of the stripped end so that it'll fit. The thickness of the last 1/2" doesn't change the overall resistance of the wire significantly.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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#177653 - 10/04/07 12:23 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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frequent flier
Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Brampton, ON, Canada
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Is it possible that you just need some junk in your room?
Do you have bare walls and hardwood in that room, or have you got bookshelves and carpet and other things to break up the reflections?
My sound improved after I put a microwave on bench off to the side where there was formerly just a big empty wall.
_________________________
M22s
VP100
QS8s
EP500
Yamaha RX-V659
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#177654 - 10/04/07 01:51 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This latest idea of the source just made me realize I need to try the M60s with the DVD player. I will report later.....
FWIW, I did find the mids/uppers a little more distinct with the digital off the dvd player compared to the analog cd player, but not enough to come close to the M22 using analog.
I did hear more sibilance on the digital feed when using the M22s alone.
Are you saying I need to purchase M80's, ?
No, the M80s are just as bad as the M22 for upper end, the M82 combo is what you are looking for , which means you need M60s in parallel with the M22s. The 60s take any edge off the M22s.  I am getting to like this combo more and more. Switch off the M22s when a poor cd is in the player and switch them back on for good ones. Movies are having more richness and fuller sound as well!
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Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#177655 - 10/04/07 04:13 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jakewash]
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axiomite
Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 7638
Loc: Tacoma
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Please forgive me, I'm trying my best to follow along.
Is it *possible* that the XBox as the source is the problem for DVD's? Is there a chance you can try your setup with another (stand-alone) DVD player and see if the results are different?
Are there adjustable output settings on an XBox? Seems like you're only having trouble with DVD's, so perhaps it is the DVD player rather than the speakers or the receiver.
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We are a whole community of "that guy" - StPatGuy
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#177656 - 10/04/07 06:19 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: paradoiley]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
Is it possible that you just need some junk in your room?
Do you have bare walls and hardwood in that room, or have you got bookshelves and carpet and other things to break up the reflections?
My sound improved after I put a microwave on bench off to the side where there was formerly just a big empty wall.
Probably. I have hardwoods and fairly bare walls. Small room.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177657 - 10/04/07 06:20 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: tomtuttle]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
Please forgive me, I'm trying my best to follow along.
Is it *possible* that the XBox as the source is the problem for DVD's? Is there a chance you can try your setup with another (stand-alone) DVD player and see if the results are different?
Are there adjustable output settings on an XBox? Seems like you're only having trouble with DVD's, so perhaps it is the DVD player rather than the speakers or the receiver.
Step ahead of you. I'm going to borrow a PS3 to test some DVD's and Blu-Rays next week.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177658 - 10/04/07 06:24 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Quote:
JBS,
you might be more happy with a couple of M2s wired in parallel, or a couple of M22 centre channels. (vertically orientated of course).
just a suggestion.
Ok Hutzal. I switched the Right M22 with the Center Channel. And the results are........
Less harshness. But exaggerated S's are still there. Most evident from the Center channel. I'm assuming it was only less because the fact I was down 1 tweeter and driver.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177659 - 10/04/07 07:37 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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I can get my hands on a Onkyo TX-SR705 to borrow for some testing. How would this compare to my H/K 635?
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#177660 - 10/04/07 07:46 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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axiomite
Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 7638
Loc: Tacoma
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I think it would be comparable enough for you to tell if the receiver is the problem.
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We are a whole community of "that guy" - StPatGuy
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#177661 - 10/04/07 09:39 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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If its not better with the PS3 nor Onkyo, and as your room is quite reflective, I will suggest that you will need some wall/floor treatments, which isn't a bad idea regardless of the outcome.
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Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#177663 - 10/05/07 01:34 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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But his room has hardwood floors and yours doesn't. The reflections off jardwood can be pretty severe.
_________________________
Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#178178 - 10/09/07 06:11 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Ok. I have aqcuired an Onkyo TX-SR705. My results are as follows.
Results with the 705:
1.) Using this Re-EQ feature helps the issue with exaggerated "S"'s
2.) As always cranking down the treble helps as well
3.) Lowing the center channel output helps the issue as well
4.) Standing to the left of the VP150 takes away the harshness of the "S"'s
So essentially there was very similar results between the H/K 635 and Onkyo 705. But the 705 has more features to handle the issue. I must say I really like the feature set in the Onkyo.
It seems atleast for the harshness that it is coming from the center channel.
The exaggerated "S" can sometimes be very distracting and harsh to the ears. To the point where I don't understand what people are saying.
As per Hutzal's suggestion I tried the M22 and it was better but was still there.
Now as far as hardwood floors etc. I'm not sure this would help with the center channel because it's aimed at the listening position. I have tried pointing it above or below but it puts to much of a reflection on the voices.
What are my options?
_________________________
HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178186 - 10/09/07 06:35 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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aficionado
Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 673
Loc: South Florida
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...but JBS says the problem is still there with the M22. There must be a problem with the 150 if it is that sibilant. I suggest you contact Axiom. ...but JBS says the problem is still there with the M22. Maybe it's better with the M22 because of 1 less tweeter? Just throwin' ideas out...
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Epic 80 / SVS PB13 Ultra
Denon 3805 / M2200 Outlaw Monos /
Sammy 55" LED
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#178189 - 10/09/07 06:44 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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JBS,
are you still using the xbox as your source? Have you tried other sources? Still have the problem with my HDTV DVR over Optical.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178190 - 10/09/07 06:46 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Spoiler]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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...but JBS says the problem is still there with the M22. There must be a problem with the 150 if it is that sibilant. I suggest you contact Axiom. ...but JBS says the problem is still there with the M22. Maybe it's better with the M22 because of 1 less tweeter? Just throwin' ideas out... I just tried a phantom center. And cranked the M22's way up. Very harsh at loud levels. 
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178191 - 10/09/07 06:48 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 3600
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
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Not trying to be a smartass... but have you ever been checked for a formerly torn eardrum?
What you're describing often happens to divers and audio engineers who have ruptured an eardrum.
Just suggesting all possibilities.
Bren R.
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#178193 - 10/09/07 06:52 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: BrenR]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Not trying to be a smartass... but have you ever been checked for a formerly torn eardrum?
What you're describing often happens to divers and audio engineers who have ruptured an eardrum.
Just suggesting all possibilities.
Bren R. Nope. But I've never had an issue with hearing, always perfect scores! I guess having the wife suffer through a testing session wouldn't hurt.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178194 - 10/09/07 06:55 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: RickF]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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"4.) Standing to the left of the VP150 takes away the harshness of the "S"'s"There must be a problem with the 150 if it is that sibilant. I suggest you contact Axiom. Ya think?  The harshness goes away moving to the left. The exaggrated "S" still exists. Same results with M22 except I would have to give it more volume.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178201 - 10/09/07 07:32 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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What if you move to the right? Same results.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178207 - 10/09/07 07:55 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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I don't know how far to the left or right you've moved. Do you hear the harshness 25 degrees off centre and 50 degrees off centre? I'm approx about 9-10 feet back. and I will move approx 4 feet to the left. So around that area and further (left and right) the harshness is gone.
Edited by jbsengineer (10/09/07 07:56 PM)
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178210 - 10/09/07 08:06 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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axiomite
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
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#178215 - 10/09/07 08:28 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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That means you can't handle the accuracy of the tweeters. When you move off axis, the response attenuates. Get some resistors from Axiom. Interesting. I can understand the basics of a resistor. How exactly will it effect the tweeter though? And how are they applied to the speaker? Does Axiom provide these upon request or?
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178217 - 10/09/07 08:29 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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I second the resistors.
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Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#178223 - 10/09/07 08:44 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Apparently Axiom does supply upon request. I am not sure how exactly they are terminated. You may have to solder them on. The resistor will decrease the power fed to the tweeter and make the tweeter sound "softer". It may be acceptable to you or it might not but it doesn't hurt to try. Let me throw this out there. Is it possible for the drivers to give out this harshnees?
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178231 - 10/09/07 08:53 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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I very much doubt it. You can always disconnect the tweeters to assure yourself. I don't know how easy it is to do that. I imagine they use quick disconnect or screw on terminals. Good point. I may try this tomorrow night.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178234 - 10/09/07 09:23 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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I very much doubt it. You can always disconnect the tweeters to assure yourself. I don't know how easy it is to do that. I imagine they use quick disconnect or screw on terminals. harshness = gone Disconnected the tweeters on the center. Of course losing all the highs but no harshness.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178284 - 10/10/07 08:56 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Congratulations. How were the tweeters connected? So you'll get yourself a couple of resistors then? They were "quick" disconnects. A couple connections not really quick and would rather refer to them as stubburn disconnects. I'm going to get ahold of Axiom and see if I can get some resistors. If this fixes my issue I see M80's in my future!
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178302 - 10/10/07 10:28 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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Try to get Axiom to terminate the resistors for you so that you can just slip them on to the tweeter and the wires.
Let us know how it sounds when you're done. Unfortunate news. Per Axiom they do not advocate using resistors as it would alter the sound, etc. They have suggested working with the placement of the center. Damn.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178338 - 10/10/07 03:09 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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I have had M3s with M22s, although the differences are minor, the M3s less honest qualities (and the 6.5" woofer) do not add to a seamless soundstage with the M22s. And since it is the tweeters that are causing the problems, I do not think an M3 would solve it.
Just my opinion tho...after having M3 centres with M22 mains, I ended up ordering M2 centres and they match a whole lot better than M3s... If I can get this harshness under control I will be upgrading from the M22's to the M80's using the tradeup program. I would assume the 150 would mesh better with M80's.
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178341 - 10/10/07 03:18 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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I really think with your sensitivity to harshness from the VP150, I would really recommend auditioning the M80s first...the M60s have 1 less tweeter and may be better suited to your listening preferences. I was thinking that as well. Disconnecting one of the tweeters in an M80 won't work? 
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178364 - 10/10/07 05:04 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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I have had M3s with M22s, although the differences are minor, the M3s less honest qualities (and the 6.5" woofer) do not add to a seamless soundstage with the M22s. And since it is the tweeters that are causing the problems, I do not think an M3 would solve it.
Just my opinion tho...after having M3 centres with M22 mains, I ended up ordering M2 centres and they match a whole lot better than M3s... If I can get this harshness under control I will be upgrading from the M22's to the M80's using the tradeup program. I would assume the 150 would mesh better with M80's. It is my feeling that the M60 would suit you much better, as the highs are nowhere near as forward and the M80s. I feel the VP150 actually matches better to the M60s as well. The VP100 plays a little more cleanly(bright) than the 150 so I would say it would match the M22/M80 unless in a medium to big room and the volume is high, which you seem to like. M60 and VP150 is what you should be going for, IMO.
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Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#178367 - 10/10/07 05:36 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jakewash]
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veteran
Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 171
Loc: Northern NJ
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I was around during the prior resistor discussions that took place here. I also used the resistors for a little while on my M22s way back when. Axiom used to provide them willingly upon request. That said, I have not used the resistors on my M22s for several years.
Basically, around the time I requested them, the anti-Axiom rhetoric on different boards was at its peak. And I kind of got caught up in the hype of people calling Axioms bright, etc. So I asked for the resistors, used them for awhile, and while I still enjoyed the Axioms, I felt a little of the magic was missing for me. So I took the resistors off, put them in a drawer, and haven't thought about them since.
But anyway, as to the current problem, I just don't think there is any magic answer. Sure, the resistors may be a partial solution, but maybe Axioms are just not the best speaker for jbsengineer. I'll see if I can find my resistors so you have some idea at least what type they were. And they did come ready to attach to the tweeter, which was a very simple process. Good luck.
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#178391 - 10/10/07 08:14 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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He finds the M22 too harsh as well, so M2s included? Maybe M3 with M60 would work or (gasp) M50s and M3s. maybe auditions are in order.
Robb we need to listen to M3 and M60.....
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Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#178460 - 10/11/07 10:07 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jakewash]
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connoisseur
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
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I would love to hear some M50s...they do intrigue be quite a bit... Currently, where I have my studio monitors placed, I would say they are about 8-10 inches from the back wall...and pretty close to the corners...and they have ANNOYED the heck outa me when I am recording bass because of that damn hump! I subbed out the M3s for M22s last week just to see what it sounded like...MAAAAANNN...I NEED M22s in my studio!! I am saving up for some black custom ones...we'll see what happens...  I still stand by my comment that M3s would not help his situation...I don't think it has anything to do with the woofers, only the tweeters. I just think the "axiom" sound from the tweeters is to JBS' preference...we shall see!!! I think JBS should order all the tower speakers and decide in his own room
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#178463 - 10/11/07 10:17 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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connoisseur
Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
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The tweeter's response is far more subdued in the M3 than the 150. well that is something that I did not know...where is this info? just from the curve? If this is the case, then M50's and M60's are something he would probably like...
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#178478 - 10/11/07 11:04 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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The tweeter's response is far more subdued in the M3 than the 150. Mojo, Interesting. I'm definetly willing to try them if this is the case. How do you know this?
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178494 - 10/11/07 11:34 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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The tweeter's response is far more subdued in the M3 than the 150. well that is something that I did not know...where is this info? just from the curve? If this is the case, then M50's and M60's are something he would probably like... Hutzal, Have you tried M3's as centers instead of the M2's?
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178498 - 10/11/07 11:50 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: gem41573]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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I was around during the prior resistor discussions that took place here. I also used the resistors for a little while on my M22s way back when. Axiom used to provide them willingly upon request. That said, I have not used the resistors on my M22s for several years.
Basically, around the time I requested them, the anti-Axiom rhetoric on different boards was at its peak. And I kind of got caught up in the hype of people calling Axioms bright, etc. So I asked for the resistors, used them for awhile, and while I still enjoyed the Axioms, I felt a little of the magic was missing for me. So I took the resistors off, put them in a drawer, and haven't thought about them since.
But anyway, as to the current problem, I just don't think there is any magic answer. Sure, the resistors may be a partial solution, but maybe Axioms are just not the best speaker for jbsengineer. I'll see if I can find my resistors so you have some idea at least what type they were. And they did come ready to attach to the tweeter, which was a very simple process. Good luck. NO. Don't say that, !! I love my Axioms. They are for me, or atleast I think so. I love every aspect about them! I may be a little too sensitive to the tweeters I guess... ,
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178527 - 10/11/07 01:47 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Hutzal]
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connoisseur
Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
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I like the sound of my M3 centers. One above and one below my SXRD.
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#178532 - 10/11/07 01:52 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: bugbitten]
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veteran
Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 171
Loc: Central New York
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I like the sound of my M3 centers. One above and one below my SXRD. Have you compared them to a VP150 or M22 before?
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HG Cherry M80's, QS8's, VP150, and a pair of EP500's
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#178546 - 10/11/07 04:39 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: jbsengineer]
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connoisseur
Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
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I like the sound of my M3 centers. One above and one below my SXRD. Have you compared them to a VP150 or M22 before? I had a VP150 before my M3s and was able to compare the sound before I shipped back the VP150. You have to realize that I like the sound of the M3s. I have 3 pair!
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#178547 - 10/11/07 04:40 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: gem41573]
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axiomite
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
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But anyway, as to the current problem, I just don't think there is any magic answer. Sure, the resistors may be a partial solution, but maybe Axioms are just not the best speaker for jbsengineer. Good luck.
Out of the 140 or so (thus far) very helpful replies to this persons obvious speaker troubles this is probably the single best result for him/her at the moment. Every probable solution has been exhausted by numerous knowledgeable members, including the removal of tweeters, adding resistors and so forth? Maybe it's time to raise the white flag.
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#178612 - 10/11/07 07:59 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: bugbitten]
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connoisseur
Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
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I like the sound of my M3 centers. One above and one below my SXRD. Have you compared them to a VP150 or M22 before? I had a VP150 before my M3s and was able to compare the sound before I shipped back the VP150. You have to realize that I like the sound of the M3s. I have 3 pair! Hey; I do too! ....well; the number of drivers also adds up to twelve!!  Yup; the M3 for center duties is a real winner! Even more fun crossed at 60! 
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#178623 - 10/11/07 08:32 PM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: bugbitten]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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I like the sound of my M3 centers. One above and one below my SXRD. Have you compared them to a VP150 or M22 before? I had a VP150 before my M3s and was able to compare the sound before I shipped back the VP150. You have to realize that I like the sound of the M3s. I have 3 pair! I see you have M80s as well, quite the mix of different sonic signatures. Not so sure I would like it, (I sent back V1 QS4s becuase the tweeters were different and sounded a little off) but obviously you do and thats all that matters. Care to elaborate on the M80 M3 center pairing?
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Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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#178705 - 10/12/07 06:33 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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connoisseur
Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
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I am sure they sound very nice.
You said they all use the same tweeters as if to imply that they all have the same tweeter response. The tweeter response however depends not only on the tweeter itself but also the cross-over frequency and the subsequent equalization. Nope; only mentioned the tweeter cause you mentioned it yourself when you stated you returned your old QS4s. Naw; I'm not the one who says they sound good together, cause I've never heard them. But Axiom felt that using the same tweeter throughout the entire audiophile line was important enough to remove the old hybrid tweet. But yup; how the tweeters fit each box and the mids is important for sure. I'd really like to see a white paper with waterfall plots for all these speakers. That would be jolly fun! 
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#178756 - 10/12/07 11:48 AM
Re: Movie voices sometimeseem raspy or too "bright
[Re: Mojo]
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shareholder in the making
Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10345
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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That would be me that returned the QS4s, that hybrid tweeter was just off enough for me to tell and it bugged me alot.
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Jason ----------------- TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT! My HT
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