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#185905 - 11/28/07 12:43 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: tomtuttle]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3885
Loc: Up yonder
 Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Or a reality TV episode.


Tom, Get back in your room. This time I'm taking away your remote! \:\)

The way I interpret the LFE and LFE + Main sub setting is:

Set the sub setting to LFE if you want bass below the crossover point from all speakers set to “small” to go to the sub. All speakers that have been set to large will still be sent a full range signal. No bass from the channels/speakers set to large will be directed to the sub.

Set the sub setting to LFE + Main if you want all bass below the crossover point from all speakers set to “small” to go to the sub AND bass from the speakers set to “large” to go to the sub as well. What I do not understand is at what crossover point will this Denon termed “low bass” is, and just how much bass will be added to the sub in addition to the full range signal still being sent to the speakers that are set to “large”.

I have tried both with a 5.1 audio source (Avia test disk) and could not detect a difference by ear or by indication on my SPL meter. Because I find this LFE + Main setting confusing, and also contradictory, I have elected to leave my sub setting at LFE. I have not testing this with a two channel CD and suspect that if there is a difference between these two settings, it will be with two channel that does not have a dedicated LFE channel.
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#185910 - 11/28/07 01:08 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: michael_d]
Bayne Offline
local

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 266
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I've found that indeed with 2 channels LFE + Main is the only way to get your sub working. If you select LFE, then the sub isn't utilized. For movie's, I too can't hear any difference, so I just leave it set to LFE + Main.
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#185912 - 11/28/07 01:14 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: Bayne]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
solved the problem guys, with a little help from AVS forum.

so I had my sub set to 'yes' and 'lfe+main' with a crossover at 80 hz.
These settings were applied in the GUI at the following location

manual setup->speaker setup->speaker config
to set the mains to large, and
manual setup->speaker setup->subwoofer set up
to put the sub to 'lfe+main'

It turns out that there is another place in the gui you must make adjustments for stereo playback

in the GUI go to
manual setup->audio set up-> stereo/direct

here it showed subwoofer to 'no'

I changed it to yes and lfe + main, with an 80 hz crossover to test the bass output

Holy crap my sub POUNDS in stereo mode with an 80 hz crossover.
I think setting you mains to 'large' with sub set to 'LFE+main' is different then a 'small' setting with a crossover because the mains AND the sub are playing the low range signals (at least as low as the m80's can possibly play)

if I set it to LFE the sub does not work with stereo sound (because it is only sending the low range signals from 'small' speakers to the sub, and my mains are set to large.)

If I turn it to LFE+main then even speakers set to 'large' (my mains) will send the sub 80hz tones to the sub.

anyway, thanks for all of th input guys!


mdrew, there is an option under both of the setup menus (speaker set up and audio set up), that lets you adjust what 'low range' (80 hz, 60 hz, ect.) signals are sent to the sub when you have LFE+main turned on

anyway, I am now satisfied that my sub is working as it should be, and have since turned it to 'no' for stereo play back. When I feel like listening to some bass heavy rap or techno, I can change it to 'yes' and shake my house apart.


Edited by terzaghi (11/28/07 01:22 PM)
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#185922 - 11/28/07 02:06 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: terzaghi]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Glad you figured it out.

Yes, LFE+Mains is different than speakers set to 'small' with the crossover. As you/we said 'LFE + Mains' the sub and mains get all the low frequency including those in the LFE channel. Also as was stated before when speakers are set to 'small', everything below the crossover point is then sent to the sub and not the speaker.

I think your sub is calibrated a little too hot if it POUNDS with music. It could also just be the music is produced very bass heavy. Does your sub not pound with HT?

Is there another special screen to setup the sub for different modes ie. stereo vs. direct vs 5/6/7/channel stereo vs. all the movie modes? You could always recalibrate the sub to sound more even with the rest of the system manually.
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My HT

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#185931 - 11/28/07 02:59 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: jakewash]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
I did not see an option to change the sub setting for stereo different than for direct.

You can however change the sub settings for multichannel sources differently from stereo sources. Also, you can change the sub settings differently for all of the various multichannel modes (widescreen, cinema, stadium, ect.) so you can have several settings pre-prgorammed.

MY sub definitely has the ability to blend in with the music, but for most of my music I do not feel I need a sub at all.

I was listening to some rap to test my sub, and This particular track was definitely VERY bass heavy.

The gain is at about 60% on my sub(where it was at during the audessey eq setup.

Audessy set my sub at about -12db, and I upped it to about -6.5db, so It probably is running a little 'hot'

I will adjust it down later if needed so the sub is more subtle, but I am just testing it's abilities right now \:\)

I have not had a chance to listen to my sub much with HT yet, been very busy.



Edited by terzaghi (11/28/07 03:01 PM)
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-David

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#185940 - 11/28/07 04:10 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: terzaghi]
mastaplaya Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 89
Loc: Cold Lake AB
What Size of spade connection would you need to connect speakers to this unit? And what size do axiom speakers use? Thinking of buying the 3808 or 4808 and some axioms and was going to order speaker wire from axiom as well.

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#185951 - 11/28/07 05:04 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: mastaplaya]
Jc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 500
Loc: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
Hi,

Axiom installs high quality gold plated five-way binding post model on its audio speakers. These binding posts will accept bare wire plus the four following connector types; pin, banana plug, spade and round connector as well. A 1/4" spade will slide inside the indents/slots of the binding post.

Axiom audiophile quality terminated cables are offered with 1/4" and 3/8" spades or a mix of the two (one end 1/4", the other 3/8").
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Axiom Audio Expert / jc@axiomaudio.com
Recrutement d'Intégrateurs/Installateurs professionnels Québec

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#185966 - 11/28/07 05:58 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: Jc]
mastaplaya Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 89
Loc: Cold Lake AB
What do you recommend for speaker connections? I know that the AVR I am looking at has banana plug connections but not sure what size of spade connection I'm assuming that they are the same 1/4 inch connections but I'm not sure.

Sorry, didnt mean to hijack the thred just hoping for a quick answer.

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#185973 - 11/28/07 06:10 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: mastaplaya]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I will just second the notion of buying the Axiom wire, it is great, super flexible and lays nice and flat. If you want the banana plugs they work and look great too.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#185978 - 11/28/07 06:28 PM Re: Denon 3808CI – one week later [Re: jakewash]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
I wouldn't count on the binding posts on the receiver handling spades. Also--wouldn't that waste an awful lot of space on the back? I'd use banana plugs or bare wire, myself.
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