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#219794 - 09/03/08 01:37 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Random thoughts:

**I'm wondering if all drivers are firing or if there's a bass-management problem... dropping the bass and making the speakers sound bright.
Bass seems to be fine, there is no lack of bass just very bright high end.

**What types of music do you listen to?
I listen to all types of music but mostly pop and rock.

**If your MP3s are 256k and above, they're likely fine unless poorly compressed...
I think the compression is alright, many I ripped from my own CDs. I use Exact Audio Copy and Lame

**Do you have a bright (barren, with hard surfaces) room?
I do have hardwood floors and vaulted ceiling (10 ft.) but the room isn't barren, full of furniture, etc.

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"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

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#219796 - 09/03/08 01:43 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: terzaghi]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: terzaghi
the 3808 supports flac files natively. I am not sure why they aren't showing up...

Try plugging a usb drive of somesort into the denon with a flac file on it and see fi it plays... if so then the problem must be with the network.

Can you list some albums you think sound bad? thanks.


Ok I put some flac files on a USB and plugged directly into the 3808. They show up there. Must be something going on with my media servers. I have a Synology, an HPMedia Vault and I have a drive on my local computer setup to share folders and they all show up through Denon interface but none of them display flac files. Not sure why but now I know it isn't the Denon.

I'll just stick to SACDs for now because they are the best recordings I have.
Bright Sounding:
Billy Joel The Stranger
Elton John Elton John
Elton John Tumbleweed Connection
Roxy Music Avalon
Dire Straits Brothers In Arms
Sheryl Crow The Globe Sessions
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"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

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#219797 - 09/03/08 01:55 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: fredk]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: fredk
The M60 is actually a little more laid back than the M80.

I can accept that some find Axioms offerings bright, but not harsh. There is something else at play here.

Can you give us the titles and labels for the reference recordings you find harsh? Can you also describe the room they are set up in? Are you in an apartment or a house? Lots of windows? Do you have wall coverings or are the walls bare...


Bright Sounding:
Billy Joel The Stranger
Elton John Elton John
Elton John Tumbleweed Connection
Roxy Music Avalon
Dire Straits Brothers In Arms
Sheryl Crow The Globe Sessions

I live in a house. I have hardwood floors, vaulted ceilings and the room is about 18w x 22d as best I recall without measuring. Lots of furniture, sofa, love seat, tables etc.

I usually listen somewhere between -25 and -18 not sure about the db level.

It seems it is most anything that has a lot of high range, especially female vocals like Sheryl Crow.

If I play Bela Fleck and the Flecktones "Flight of the Cosmic Hippo" which is an mp3 (256k) d'loaded from Amazon it sounds amazing. Not a lot of upper range stuff and I use an HSU ULS-15 sub.

At someone's suggestion I did go in and check my tone and the treble was set at 0. If I turn it down to -5 or as far as it will go -6 some of the brightness goes away. I did use Audyssey.
Here is a screen shot of the FL levels but it doesn't mean alot to me, maybe you guys will get something from it.

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"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

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#219801 - 09/03/08 02:23 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
Lame-encoded, 256kbs+ MP3's should sound good. Maybe not perfect, but pretty darn good. But if your source CD itself sounds bad, then the rip will sound equally bad (or worse). If all of your hundreds of CD's sound bad, then I don't see how the problem could be in the mastering of *all* of them. Quite true that some CD's are mastered better than others, but they're not all badly done. Your CD's aren't all from one particular label or something strange like that, right?

Some people say that receivers & amps make a difference in the sound quality. Others say that it does not. Vigorous and heated debates have arisen between these two camps. We're generally a kind and respectful bunch around here, so it doesn't happen much here. But if you take a stroll over on some other, more general audio boards, you will find such debates.

You'll find similar debates about break-in. Some believe that speakers, receivers, amps, cables, kitchen forks, etc all need a break-in period to perform at their best. Others think that it's just the incredible adaptability of a human mind. You listen to it long enough, and you either get used to it or convince yourself that it sounds good. We adapt. That's what people do.

From my own personal, humanly-biased experience, I *do* actually believe that amps (and receivers) can 'color' the sound. And by color, I mean the differences between muddied, warm, neutral, cool, and shrill. I've been in listening rooms where I've heard the same source material, played through the same speakers but from different receivers (operating in a pass-through mode - no bass/treble/EQ trickery) switched back-to-back. And they sounded different. And I don't mean that the $x,xxx receiver always sounded better than the $xxx one. Not always. A piccolo trill might sound more piercing on receiver A, where a bass drum was more defined and clean on receiver B, where a vocals sounded more alive & focused on receiver C, etc, etc. Power specs? Distortion ratings? Magic Pixies? I don't know. But, IMHO, there are slight differences.

Really though, you've got a darn good receiver. All Denon's, but especially the 3808, are pretty highly regarded by everyone. If it were something less, a better receiver might help. My old, unable-to-cope-with-4-ohm-M80's Pioneer receiver would start to sound like crap as you cranked up the volume. An Emotiva amp completely solved that problem. But your 3803 is a robust and powerful beast.

As you know, Axiom speakers are designed to be 'neutral'. A few say they lean towards the reviled 'b' word, 'bright'. You might just prefer a 'warmer' sounding speaker, like B&W's or AV123 Rockets. And in that case, it makes sense that a tweeter resistor might make you happier with your Axioms.

Good luck. I hope you find a good solution so you can get back to enjoying the music!
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M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#219802 - 09/03/08 02:23 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13324
Loc: Iowa
I think some room treatments would help in that reflective room. Try throwing a throw rug/remnant betweetn you and your speakers and/or panels on the side walls. Reflections arrive at your ears at different times skewing what you hear.

Also, compressed audio is not the best, even at that bit rate.
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M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#219807 - 09/03/08 02:34 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: SirQuack]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: sirquack
I think some room treatments would help in that reflective room. Try throwing a throw rug/remnant betweetn you and your speakers and/or panels on the side walls. Reflections arrive at your ears at different times skewing what you hear.

Also, compressed audio is not the best, even at that bit rate.


I may try putting a rug or similar on the floor in front of the speakers but as far as putting something on the wall, well I have to deal with the WAF (wife approval factor ). The SACDs I have I don't Bitstream them I play them Multichannel LPCM. If the extra resistors are as easy to install/uninstall as stated in an earlier post I may give that a try. Nothing to lose
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"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

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#219808 - 09/03/08 02:37 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
As per my post above with the front left levels, should I consider individually lowering the 8khz and 16khz levels or am I about to screw everything up by going there?
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"Real Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aim At" - can't remember

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#219809 - 09/03/08 02:42 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 Originally Posted By: edmondwolfman
I did use Audyssey.
Here is a screen shot of the FL levels but it doesn't mean alot to me, maybe you guys will get something from it.
The top end in that screen shot is out of sync with the low end, a typical Audyssey curve. The 63hz and 125hz could be boosted to the same as 250 hz and drop the 16khz to zero. But first I would turn off Audyssey and see if you like it better with no EQ going on, I think you might.
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My HT

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#219810 - 09/03/08 02:44 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: edmondwolfman]
AdamP88 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 639
Loc: Omaha, NE
 Originally Posted By: edmondwolfman



If this is what Audyssey set the levels too, then I'd definitely experiment with lowering the 8khz and 16khz levels - they're definitely higher than the rest of the spectrum and that could definitely be the culprit for the harshness you're hearing.


Edited by AdamP88 (09/03/08 02:45 PM)

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#219811 - 09/03/08 02:52 PM Re: Receiver to make M60s sound good? [Re: jakewash]
edmondwolfman Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/17/08
Posts: 135
Loc: Edmond, OK
 Originally Posted By: jakewash
 Originally Posted By: edmondwolfman
I did use Audyssey.
Here is a screen shot of the FL levels but it doesn't mean alot to me, maybe you guys will get something from it.
The top end in that screen shot is out of sync with the low end, a typical Audyssey curve. The 63hz and 125hz could be boosted to the same as 250 hz and drop the 16khz to zero. But first I would turn off Audyssey and see if you like it better with no EQ going on, I think you might.


Thanks for the feedback Jason. I will try that. I have tried with Audyssey turned off but the sound seems fuller with it on. I'll take your advice and tweak those levels and see if I can get what I'm after. I noticed something else also. I usually play music in the 5 channel stereo mode so all my speakers play. The levels for my surround A speakers are maxed out on the 4, 8 and 16khz levels. Some of that shrillness may be added to from the surround speakers so I'm going to adjust those levels also. I appreciate everyone's help.
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