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#233620 - 12/08/08 03:44 PM Re: Bare Wire Termination with QS8 [Re: Ken.C]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Kcarlie, the mounting option issue is a good one that I didn't consider. As far as a fix, really it would only require increasing the depth of the plug housing an inch. That's why I find it strange - the fix is so easy and wall mounting has to be nearly, if not more, common for surrounds that stand mounting.

Anyway, no big deal. When THX declines to certify my man-room I'll complain that Axiom made me use bare wire. Until then, and I'd guess I have some time, I'll focus on the sound.

Thanks
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Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#233621 - 12/08/08 03:51 PM Re: Bare Wire Termination with QS8 [Re: Zimm]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4078
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Bare wire actually creates the best contact with the terminal because it avoids making additional connection points which can fail. This would have a negative effect on sound quality. I have had speaker wire oxidize on me in the past (jacket turned yellow) and I did not notice any difference in sound quality then the speaker wire I have now which is also even a higher gauge.
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#233626 - 12/08/08 04:11 PM Re: Bare Wire Termination with QS8 [Re: BlueJays1]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Doc, I guess this won't be the first time two listeners had a difference of opinion as to what sounds better. What, next you going to tell me Guns N Roses' Appetite for Destruction was not the best album of the 90's?
No doubt bare wire is best; the first day. After that, it goes down as a matter of physics as corrosion occurs around the surface of each strand of exposed wire; while terminated wire, on the other hand does not change, or changes dramatically slower. And the additional contact points argument is curious to me. Yes, a banana has about 5 times the amount of surface area contact - providing a similar affect to increasing the gauge of the wire. But having more surface area does not create more likelihood of failure points. If you mean the contact between the plug and the wire, I would agree that a screw terminal in the plug is as prone to corrosion as at the speaker terminal. Good solder is the key there. Even with screw downs, however, you gain the increase in surface area via spade or banana, which is my general preference.
Anyway, the horse called and asked that I stop beating him, so I'll move on. Thanks for the input. Hope to report back with a functioning system soon.
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#233627 - 12/08/08 04:18 PM Re: Bare Wire Termination with QS8 [Re: Zimm]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
ahhh hum bug, I use old lamp chord that has plenty of corrosion, and in blind AB tests you will not be able to tell the difference between that and wire costing thousands...
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#233628 - 12/08/08 04:20 PM Re: Bare Wire Termination with QS8 [Re: SirQuack]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4078
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
I am not arguing what termination sounds better but the fact they will all sound the same :).


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Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

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#233629 - 12/08/08 04:22 PM Re: Bare Wire Termination with QS8 [Re: BlueJays1]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
If the OP is dead set on connecting his QS speakers with banana plugs he can order this, or a similar recessed speaker binding plate from Parts Express for use as a recessed wall plate...that's exactly what I did whenever I built our room thinking it would make for a much cleaner looking installation but whenever I started fumbling around with trying to connect the banana plug installed jumper wires to the QS8's with the less than ideal working space,(T bracket, wall and speaker) I was working with I ditched that idea and went bare wire to speaker binding post, it worked out great and after the install nobody noticed the difference.
If a soldered speaker wire/banana plug to speaker binding post is what he's looking for, remove the two recessed speaker plate's binding post and use the holes in the plate as a pass-thru for that connection ... you may need to enlarge the holes or make one hole.



Parts Express Speaker Plates
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Rick
Our Room

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#233633 - 12/08/08 04:43 PM Re: Bare Wire Termination with QS8 [Re: RickF]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17768
Loc: NoVA
So what exactly prevents the corrosion from happening to the bare wire screwed into the banana plug? As I see it, you're just moving the connection back a few inches.

That said, I use bananas on the receiver end of all of my cables and on the speaker ends of the towers.
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#233635 - 12/08/08 04:57 PM Re: Bare Wire Termination with QS8 [Re: SirQuack]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Sir Quack, I must disagree. I have done that test and can tell you the difference b/w lamp cord and Transparent wire and Monster Z Series, etc., is real, but small. (Bare wire is a different issue - after spending much hard earned $, I fear the weak link of corrosion in the humidity drenched south. Heck, even peoploe corrode down here!)
But I spent a lot of time comparing wires and audible differences are there, even on my lower end system. Transparent was best for my price range, the Monster Z had great bass but had less clarity on the highs, lamp cord was weaker on both. I have also listed on a $100K+ setup, and found some of the cheaper (very relative term!) wire was better (to me) than some of the more expensive stuff. This is a case of severe diminishing marginal returns - the next $100 brings far fewer changes than the first $100. It could be all smoke and mirrors, but I believe the efforts made (in the little black boxes added to high end wire) to control known anomalies in analog signals when transmitted over copper over a set distance have an impact. There is no dispute the signal changes, look at any signal chart on the many studies of the issue. The question is does that change matter to you and is the impact good or not. That is up to the listener. Most studios seem to prefer special wire. If you don't notice a difference in your room, congrats. For me, it was worth the insane, but possible, price of admission to get some tech voodoo rubbed on my wire. (That sounds odd... :o)
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#233636 - 12/08/08 05:01 PM Re: Bare Wire Termination with QS8 [Re: Ken.C]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
Calvin, as I understand it, Non-corrosive solder. Prevents air and does not corrode on its own. Thus, pre-terminated wire has a significant advantage as there is no oxygen in the wire, and the connection is airtight. Otherwise, correct, the only benefit is the increased surface area of the contact points and ease of use.


Edited by Zimm (12/08/08 05:05 PM)
Edit Reason: clarity

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#233637 - 12/08/08 05:03 PM Re: Bare Wire Termination with QS8 [Re: Zimm]
onn Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 903
Loc: Edmonton Alberta
I know I shouldn't get into this but, do you have a lab to test for these differences or is it the way these wires sound to your ears. I'm just curious.
Also if the wire does corrode at what rate and when can you hear the difference?


Edited by onn (12/08/08 05:04 PM)
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