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#286056 - 01/09/10 12:56 AM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: LT61]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 Originally Posted By: LT61
, it's really more of a preference issue.
That's the case for all speaker purchases ;\)
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Jason
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#286058 - 01/09/10 06:07 AM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: grunt]
SRoode Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 1200
Loc: Fishers, Indiana, USA
 Originally Posted By: grunt

 Originally Posted By: bdpf

That's interesting that most of you run the M80s with a sub. Wouldn't that beat the purpose of having the 80s instead of the 60s since the extra bass given by the 80s will be useless in that case?

IMO it sort of defeats the purpose of getting tower speakers in the first place for most people. I listen to lots and lots of Trance with very rapid bass beats. I find the bass is much clearer at 160BPM when played from just the M80s and not the M80s + sub. Could just be a byproduct of not being able to exactly match the distance delays, crossover issues, room resonance being excited by the lower bass of the sub or a combination of those and other things.

For the music where I kick the sub in there isn’t a rapid beat to deal with so I sounds fine.


There is some very interesting discussion here! If you look at the 2 graphs Axiom provides for the M60 and M80, you can see that for the most part they are identical speakers with the nod going to the M80 across most of the frequency spectrum by about 2db (confirmed by the 93db vs 91db ratings of the speakers). They are both basically flat down to about 80 Hz, lose about 3 or 4 db at 60 Hz, and lose about 5 or 6 db at 40 Hz. Lower than 40 Hz, the M80 gains it's advantage over the M60. At 20Hz, the M80 can produce a signal 4 times more powerful than the M80, but it is still 20 db lower than the source (almost inaudible). And that's I guess where the sub comes into play.

If some of you remember my older posts, I played around a lot with REW and the Behringer BFD to try to even out my bass response and tame my room. I had a notorious room resonance in the 60 Hz range which caused my bass to feel "slow" (as Grunt said) and "muddy". Although I spent a lot of time with this, in the end I found an easier answer which worked for my room and my setup. I simply lowered the XO frequency in my receiver from 80 Hz to 60 Hz. In doing so, I cut out my subs and my mains trying to reproduce this frequency (which both can easily), and really dropped the room's contribution to this frquency. The end result was a bass sound that was much more "tight" and "quick". The good thing is that the sub is now there to handle the frquencies that both the M60 and M80 are not particularly great at (frequencies lower than 40Hz).

As a side note, I tried lowering the XO to 40 Hz, but IMHO and in my room, I felt it made the resultant sound "thin", so I switched it back. Keep in mind however that all of these measurements and adjustments were made when I had two EP500s. Now that I have two EP800s (twice the amount of 12" drivers), I may reinvestigate the possibility of lowering the XO to 40 Hz.

There is a great article here on subwoofer XO crossover settings:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_3/feature-article-multiple-crossovers-9-2002.html

But, to get back to the OP, I think either the M60 of M80 would be great for listening to music. They have almost identical frequency responses above 40 Hz, and that's where 95%+ of the frequencies in recorded music is positioned.

I think I'm learning over the years that I have to treat my subwoofers as subwoofers, and not woofers.
_________________________
2 M80s, 1 VP180, 4 QS8s, 2 EP800s, 4 Algonquins, 2 M3 VaSSallos

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#286061 - 01/09/10 09:06 AM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: bdpf]
Argon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1443
Loc: Oak Ridge, NC
 Originally Posted By: bdpf
Argon:
Right now I can only afford the mains, the rest will come later.

For those of you that have the M60s or M80s, do you listen to stereo music with or without sub?


I have said before that I agree wholeheartedly with John's signature that says "enjoy the music - not the equipment". Having said that, my setup is new enough - Oppo Blue Ray this past December, Axioms last May, Yamaha Receiver that decodes the latest audio technology - March, 2008 and big screen LCD TV November, 2007, that I still can't resist "playing" with it every now and then. So....I will listen to music in different modes. The Yammy has "Pure Direct" mode which cuts signal to everything except the 2 Mains (M60's). I will listen to a track multiple ways - with regular decoding, maybe try one of the "Venue Surround" modes as well as the pure direct. One of the facts that still amazes me is how good the sound stage is with the Axioms. WHile listening in Pure Direct, I still crawl over to the center channel speaker to assure myself that it is not playing. The bass on the 60's is impressive as well and fine for most music. I have not heard the 80's (again, I did audition Studio 100's) so I can not offer an informed opinion there. Ultimately, I end up with the sub in the mix. This may be sacrilege but I prefer the "7.1 Enhanced" mode for the music - as does the rest of my family. I only have a 5.1 set up - the 7.1 is what Yamaha offers.

So....all kidding aside, what I do strongly recommend is Axiom speakers - Excellent quality, Excellent service.
_________________________
"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Churchill

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#286062 - 01/09/10 09:27 AM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: Argon]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
This thread, along with the rainy and cold weather we're experiencing today just might be a great opportunity to drag my 60s out of the storage closet and do a little side by side with the 80s ... they probably need a good dusting anyway.
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#286063 - 01/09/10 09:30 AM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: RickF]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

You really should. I don't know what has taken ya so long to begin with \:\)
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#286065 - 01/09/10 09:37 AM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: Wid]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
It's procrastinating Rick, one of the traits I have down to a complete science. \:D
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#286066 - 01/09/10 09:40 AM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: RickF]
Spoiler Offline
aficionado

Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 680
Loc: South Florida

I'm with Wid... today's a good day for the comparo... it's a good day to stay inside. \:\)
_________________________
Epic 80 / SVS PB13 Ultra
Denon 3805 / M2200 Outlaw Monos /
Sammy 55" LED

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#286067 - 01/09/10 09:40 AM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: RickF]
Argon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1443
Loc: Oak Ridge, NC
 Originally Posted By: RickF
This thread, along with the rainy and cold weather we're experiencing today just might be a great opportunity to drag my 60s out of the storage closet and do a little side by side with the 80s ... they probably need a good dusting anyway.


We are all procrastinating on your procrastination. If you will go ahead with the comparison - complete with posting your impressions, it will give us something to do. I just finished thawing out our water main at the well housing so I am wide open.
_________________________
"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Churchill

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#286069 - 01/09/10 09:41 AM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: Argon]
Argon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/24/04
Posts: 1443
Loc: Oak Ridge, NC
We did talk about going to see Avatar later.....
_________________________
"A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" Churchill

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#286070 - 01/09/10 09:43 AM Re: M60s or M80s [Re: Argon]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
Are they out of the closet yet? What's takin so long
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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