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#293936 - 02/26/10 09:57 AM Re: EP800 wins an award [Re: GDS]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi all,

We are delighted that Audioholics gave us the award and while Gene did visit Axiom and hear the EP800, as he pointed out, the award should not be misinterpreted as a review. Magazines, web sites, and Electronics Shows give out design innovation-type awards every year.

Incidentally, the EP800 indeed does everything claimed in the copy I wrote, which my colleague Peter submitted to Audioholics. I've submitted similar text in applications for other awards, including the annual Consumer Electronics Association show in Las Vegas, which hands out annual design innovation awards based on novelty of design and execution.

Regards,

Alan
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Axiom Resident Expert

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#293938 - 02/26/10 10:26 AM Re: EP800 wins an award [Re: alan]
RayLewis Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 153
I actually still think many of the original criticisms of the article or announcement were warranted. I will admit that I did not study the article, but based on my relatively quick read of the article and the link to the criteria for judging, one could very easily interpret the article as indicating some testing of the products at issue. I in fact would have interpreted it as such as it was originally posted. (And, I basically read and interpret things for a living.) "According to Axiom" at the beginning fixes that problem for the Axiom discussion, but it appears that was not originally in the article. Also, they did not make a change for any other product, which makes things even more troubling. It now even more strongly implies that the other products actually were tested because they don't have the caveat. I also wonder at the motivation of just adding the caveat to the Axiom description.

I don't have an opinion generally about Audioholics. I have looked at the site on a few occassions, and found it helpful, but I am not an audiophile by any stretch. I'm sure I'll continue to periodically read articles there, I'll just be more circumspect about what I am reading.

I don't want to detract from the award or lead to any ill will toward Axiom. I am, after all, just someone who bought some of their speakers and enjoys the forum. But, it is perfectly fair to comment on public articles. I think it is particularly fair to "review" the "reviewers," and it is then fair for them to defend themselves.

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#293941 - 02/26/10 10:43 AM Re: EP800 wins an award [Re: BlueJays1]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3889
Loc: Up yonder
 Originally Posted By: Dr.House


As to "audioholics going down the tubes" is simply not true . I am interesed how one can come to that conclusion? Their reviews are better than ever and YES products that are sold in their store are held to their same review standards and do get CRITIZED (OPPO SE is latest example).


Without getting into a pissing contest that will serve absolutely no value by sighting examples, we all have our opinions. You have stated yours, I have stated mine. Your comments are based off your opinion, and perception of the truth, as are mine.

There was a time I frequented Audioholics. Thatís how I ended up here six or seven years ago. I enjoyed the sight, the forums, the atmosphere, the reviews and the information. Not real sure when it happened, but a few years ago I stopped visiting / reading. The general atmosphere had changed and I found the information on the sight to be misleading with what I felt was a clear bias to advertiserís product in the reviews. It has been about two years since Iíve bothered to spend any time or even click on the link to the sight. Maybe things have changed, gotten better, I have no idea. I have no dog in this fight and I really do not care one way or the other.
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#293967 - 02/26/10 12:14 PM Re: EP800 wins an award [Re: michael_d]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4077
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
 Originally Posted By: michael_d
 Originally Posted By: Dr.House


As to "audioholics going down the tubes" is simply not true . I am interesed how one can come to that conclusion? Their reviews are better than ever and YES products that are sold in their store are held to their same review standards and do get CRITIZED (OPPO SE is latest example).


Without getting into a pissing contest that will serve absolutely no value by sighting examples, we all have our opinions. You have stated yours, I have stated mine. Your comments are based off your opinion, and perception of the truth, as are mine.

There was a time I frequented Audioholics. Thatís how I ended up here six or seven years ago. I enjoyed the sight, the forums, the atmosphere, the reviews and the information. Not real sure when it happened, but a few years ago I stopped visiting / reading. The general atmosphere had changed and I found the information on the sight to be misleading with what I felt was a clear bias to advertiserís product in the reviews. It has been about two years since Iíve bothered to spend any time or even click on the link to the sight. Maybe things have changed, gotten better, I have no idea. I have no dog in this fight and I really do not care one way or the other.


Your view is clearly based on opinion alone, mine is not.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/trans...y/oppo-bdp-83se

Oppo is both an advertister and is sold in their online store. I believe Yamaha is one of their biggest suppliers in their online store and they have had some non-favourable reviews of some of their products as well (I will try to dig them up).

When you provide credible measurements with your reviews, at the end of the day eliminates any "opinions/bias" of the reviewer.


_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#293974 - 02/26/10 12:54 PM Re: EP800 wins an award [Re: alan]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7042
Loc: Canada
 Originally Posted By: alan
Incidentally, the EP800 indeed does everything claimed in the copy I wrote, which my colleague Peter submitted to Audioholics.

Big deal. So do all the other Axiom products. We wouldn't expect any less... OK, so were a little spoiled here because we know Axiom delivers what it promises.

Maybe this is the dumbing down effect the internet has on people, but I was expecting an explanation specifically what made each product unique, or stand head and shoulders above the crowd AND a rundown of who the crowd is.

I guess we are a tough crowd. ;\)
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#293976 - 02/26/10 12:59 PM Re: EP800 wins an award [Re: BlueJays1]
RayLewis Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 153
Dr. House, does this particular episode not bother you at all? I think a statement from the President of Audioholics as follows is odd and, frankly, troubling: "If Axiom and others aren't happy with us picking their subwoofer for the award, we can very easily retract it if that makes everyone feel better." So, what was supposed to be an award based on some sort of facts and analysis will be changed because some people are not "happy?" To me, that says a lot, indicates that the analysis is in fact hardly neutral, and frankly comes off as childish. As I mentioned in my note above, I also think the way they apparently changed the article after reading comments on this board is problematic.

Frankly, I have no opinion at all about Audioholics in a now vs. then context. I in fact have very little opinion of Audioholics at all. However, I think this particular article and their response reflects poorly on them.

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#293986 - 02/26/10 01:19 PM Re: EP800 wins an award [Re: RayLewis]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
Just FYI, the main reasons I stopped reading Audioholics were these:

A perceived reliance on press releases (this is probably unfair)

and

A decided editorial slant against Apple. Every time Apple did anything (even unrelated to audio), there was an editorial or article putting the worst possible slant on it and essentially saying that anyone who liked their products was an idiot.
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#293990 - 02/26/10 01:35 PM Re: EP800 wins an award [Re: Ken.C]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4077
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
A decided editorial slant against Apple. Every time Apple did anything (even unrelated to audio), there was an editorial or article putting the worst possible slant on it and essentially saying that anyone who liked their products was an idiot.


Really? You know me, I'm not an apple guy. Overhyped and priced. But lets bring some facts here. I'll start.

I just quickly pulled some articles from the search engine.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/porta...r-and-ipod.html

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33201 (the beginning of this review clearly contradicts what you are saying)


_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#293993 - 02/26/10 01:40 PM Re: EP800 wins an award [Re: BlueJays1]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17754
Loc: NoVA
It's from Wayde Robson, for the most part. Have a look at his editorials. Clint and Gene seem far more balanced. However, since you already don't like Apple, it probably doesn't bother you. It bothered me, so I stopped reading.

Here's one in particular:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/mac-clone-apple-controversy


Edited by kcarlile (02/26/10 01:41 PM)
_________________________
I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#293998 - 02/26/10 01:51 PM Re: EP800 wins an award [Re: Ken.C]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4077
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
So can you explain why? Whats the issue?
_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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