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#317644 - 08/05/10 01:03 PM Re: M22s, VP100, QS4s? [Re: Yes sir44]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Yes you can mount an M22 above your TV. I did it with my M80 center in my apartment: smile

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=219121#Post219121

Consider mounting it upside down to keep the tweeter closer to the level of the tweeters on the mains. I actually liked having it above the TV since that combined with the mains a a slightly lower level created a taller ďwall-of-soundĒ coming from the front. Much more movie-theater-like IMO.

Although 3 matching M22s would be the ideal Iím not kidding when I say that I couldnít tell the difference between the M22s and the M2s when crossed over with my sub at 80Hz. So you might want to think about your upgrade path if should you move to a larger room and plan to stay with Axioms. IMO the M22 would be best if you eventually plan to re-task them as stand alone speakers in another room. Though the lack deep bass they will work for music thatís not bass heavy. OTOH if you plan to re-task your front three to other positions in your HT then M22s would IMO be overkill either as wide, height or rear speakers. Just something to think about.

Cheers,
Dean
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#317648 - 08/05/10 02:53 PM Re: M22s, VP100, QS4s? [Re: grunt]
Seekinganswers Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 97
Dean,

Thanks so far for all the quality advice. Seeing you mount that beast of an M80 on the wall lets me know what I can do with smaller axiom speakers. Do the speakers come with brackets already to install on the wall?

I am a bit concerned with the layout of my room. I currently am watching movies on a bed and mattress of about 26" high. I usually sit up when I watch movies. I have a 46" TV sitting on a 16" TV stand and when I sit in bed I am usually eye level to the top of the TV. The thing that concerns me is I am running two Polk Monitor 60s and my ears are way above the top of the speakers. I know its not ideal but it is the best I can do to accommodate a home theater in my bedroom. Is the height effecting the sound much? Considering I have room to move my TV up to eye level, I would be able to fit an M3 vertically on the stand as my center channel, so all is not so bad. What are your thoughts?

I have also evaluated the benefits of both the M3 and M22 as center channels. I don't think I would be losing out on much going with M3 and it would also fit very nicely under my TV when the TV is mounted.


Edited by Seekinganswers (08/05/10 02:55 PM)
_________________________
Speakers: Energy RC-70s, RC-LCR, RC-Rs and eD A2-300 x 2.
Receiver: Marantz 6006

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#317649 - 08/05/10 02:58 PM Re: M22s, VP100, QS4s? [Re: Seekinganswers]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17768
Loc: NoVA
The M22s don't come with brackets, but you can get the Full Metal Brackets from Axiom to do it with. They do have standard mounts (like tripod screws) on the back, so you aren't stuck with Axiom's bracket.
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#317651 - 08/05/10 03:54 PM Re: M22s, VP100, QS4s? [Re: Ken.C]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Originally Posted By: Seekinganswers

Thanks so far for all the quality advice. Seeing you mount that beast of an M80 on the wall lets me know what I can do with smaller axiom speakers. Do the speakers come with brackets already to install on the wall?

Note that my M80 in that picture is actually about 2-3 feet from the wall. Itís sitting on a frame built to hang the curtains. At a minimum I would place the M22s, M3s or M2s at least a few inches from the wall. The bracket Ken mentioned does accomplish that but so would putting up a shelf which would cost a lot less and might give you a little room for tweaking the speaker positions. However, I wouldnít wall mount a speaker unless I had no other choice. When the speaker is free standing you have a lot more capability for tweaking (room permitting) the speaker positions which is key to getting the best sound out of your system. When I had my M22s set up in my bedroom and was also using my bed for seating I placed the M22s right up at the foot of the bed because it gave the best imaging compared to being closer to the wall the TV was against.

Quote:

I am a bit concerned with the layout of my room. I currently am watching movies on a bed and mattress of about 26" high. I usually sit up when I watch movies. I have a 46" TV sitting on a 16" TV stand and when I sit in bed I am usually eye level to the top of the TV.


Ideally you want the screen so that your eye level is about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the screen. I find that anywhere from 1/3 up to the bottom works fine for me. This both helps reduce eye/neck strain and also creates a more theater like, natural and impressive image (looks bigger).

Quote:

The thing that concerns me is I am running two Polk Monitor 60s and my ears are way above the top of the speakers. I know its not ideal but it is the best I can do to accommodate a home theater in my bedroom. Is the height effecting the sound much?

The height could be effecting the sound depending on the vertical dispersion characteristics of the speakers. Most speaker are designed to sit with the tweeters near ear level. Also with the sound field coming from below you it may not sound as enveloping or as natural especially if you can localize the sound as coming from below the screen. Having your center above the screen (as long as the mains and center arenít to far apart vertically) can help pull the front soundstage up some giving you more a wall-of-sound vs a row of speakers.

I think you would benefit from moving your TV up both visually and if you can also elevate your speakers sonically.

Quote:

Considering I have room to move my TV up to eye level, I would be able to fit an M3 vertically on the stand as my center channel, so all is not so bad. What are your thoughts?

I have also evaluated the benefits of both the M3 and M22 as center channels. I don't think I would be losing out on much going with M3 and it would also fit very nicely under my TV when the TV is mounted.


I have never heard the M3 so I donít know how well it matched sonically with the M2, M22, M60, and M80 speakers. Itís the one Axiom speaker designed to sound a little different than the others so for me I know I would never use it as a center for the other speakers because hearing any difference would drive me crazy. If I were to use an M3 center I would also use them as mains. IMO the M2 would be a better, actually perfect sonic match for the M22s if thatís what you are getting as mains. Someone else with real experience comparing the M22s and M3s may have a different opinion.

To recap based on what you are saying I would suggest the following:

2xM22 mains, 1xM2 center, and 2xQS8 surrounds.

Build your own stands for the M22s and M2. Note that M2 could still go above your TV if you built an ďLĒ shaped stand at sits behind your TV with the short leg of the ďLĒ resting on the top of your screen.

I would wall mount the QS8s with the included bracket unless you just can't get them positioned well in which case I would make either shelves or stands with a hole cut out in the bottom for the downward firing driver.

Elevate your TV to get your eye level closer to the bottom of the screen (at least below the halfway point). And elevate your speakers so that the tweeters are at or slightly above ear level.

Consider mounting your center speaker above the TV if you canít get it elevated close to ear level below the TV. I really prefer my center speaker above my screen with the mains elevated so the tweeters are about half way up the screen. I find that the ďwall-of-soundĒ created by elevating the center channel is much more engaging than having all the speakers in a row below the screen as long at the difference in height between the mains and center isnít to great.

Note that a lot of the suggestions Iím making are ďidealĒ which isnít necessary nor always the best for everyone which brings up another point that several of my suggestions are my personal preferences based on a lot of testing. Every room + speaker + listener combination is different so what is considered ideal by or preferable by some may not be what works best for you. Finding the best results with your own setup will only be found by tweaking, which is why I always advocate flexibility in speaker placement if at all possible.

Cheers,
Dean

_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#317657 - 08/05/10 04:31 PM Re: M22s, VP100, QS4s? [Re: grunt]
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
Seekinganswers,

I have the exact same setup (M22's, VP100, and QS4's) as you described.

Seems like you're already set on the center.

I just wanted to chime in saying that while I am happy with my setup, you should definitely go for the QS8's.

Check out this review that I conducted some time ago, where I compared the QS4's vs QS8's: http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=190290#Post190290

Good luck with your decision!

_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#317673 - 08/05/10 07:04 PM Re: M22s, VP100, QS4s? [Re: danmagicman7]
Seekinganswers Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 97
Dean,

I must have gotten my speakers confused. I really meant the M2s that you recommended. Do you think having the verticle center on a 16" TV stand below my ear level will be a bad thing? I know you say you personally like the center above your TV.

Dan,

Great conparison and review. It really affirms what the M22s are capable of with a subwoofer.

I haven't completely made up my mind as to what center channel I am going with, but the M2 seems like the best candidate right now because of my listening position and room arrangements.
_________________________
Speakers: Energy RC-70s, RC-LCR, RC-Rs and eD A2-300 x 2.
Receiver: Marantz 6006

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#317674 - 08/05/10 07:50 PM Re: M22s, VP100, QS4s? [Re: Seekinganswers]
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
Yep, you'll be pleased with the M22's. Just a fantastic speaker :-)
_________________________

M22s|VP100|QS4s|HSU STF2

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#317680 - 08/05/10 08:41 PM Re: M22s, VP100, QS4s? [Re: danmagicman7]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Originally Posted By: Seekinganswers

I must have gotten my speakers confused. I really meant the M2s that you recommended. Do you think having the verticle center on a 16" TV stand below my ear level will be a bad thing? I know you say you personally like the center above your TV.

No, not a bad thing at all. In fact that is where most people put it and are quite happy. It is simply my personal preference to have it above the screen I most situations however itís not a deal breaker. For me the differences would be noticeable but not enough to drive me crazy or anything. I fact right now my center is under my screen:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post309421

I agree with Dan that the M22 is a fantastic speaker. I often recommend it to people paired with a subwoofer in lieu of M80s. Really itís pretty much an M80 w/o the bass and maybe even a little better on the mid to high end. The M2 is to the M22 what the M22 is to the M80. If all three of these speakers are crossed over to a subwoofer at 80Hz IMO the M2 and M22 sound identical while the M80 sounds ever so slightly fuller and authoritative. I other words I would say either the M2 or M22 plus sub combo gives you about 95% of what an M80 plus sub combo give at a fraction of the price. If your room were larger I might recommend the M22 over the M2 as it should fill the room with a little more sound. But IMO unless you plan on some 2ch listening you wonít notice the difference in your room.

Here is a review comparing some bookshelf speaker that isnít linked on the Axiom site.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0509/aperion_intimus_5b_axiom_m2v2_paradigm_v6.htm

Now that Iíve heard one the M2 is IMO the unsung hero of the Axiom lineup. Previously Iíve said that the M22 was the best Axiom speaker for the price now itís easily the M2 as long as you plan to use a subwoofer or not listen to bass heavy 2ch music.

Cheers,
Dean
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#317690 - 08/05/10 09:43 PM Re: M22s, VP100, QS4s? [Re: Seekinganswers]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10383
Seek, that positioning of the vertical M2 center on the 16" stand should be fine, especially if you tilt it back slightly so that the tweeter points at your ear level.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#317699 - 08/05/10 11:51 PM Re: M22s, VP100, QS4s? [Re: JohnK]
Seekinganswers Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 97
JohnK,

I am glad to hear the vertical M2 will work and I never thought of the idea of tilting it slightly backwards, sounds like it won't be too bad after all.

Dean,

You are really selling me on the M2s as front speakers, too. I don't know the details but the M2s looks like a stripped down version of the M22s with one less woofer. I would guess that is why they sound very similar?
_________________________
Speakers: Energy RC-70s, RC-LCR, RC-Rs and eD A2-300 x 2.
Receiver: Marantz 6006

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