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#328013 - 11/10/10 05:49 PM Re: Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout [Re: medic8r]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8135
Loc: Tacoma
I want to be clear about something, since I know that Audioholics users are monitoring content here.

I think there are four separate issues here.

1. Axiom refused to participate in the shootout. Noted. In the context of what you know about Axiom, about Audioholics, about the hobby and about hobbyists, feel free to draw your own conclusions. No problem there.

2. Axiom pulled advertising from Audioholics. This is their prerogative based on their relationship and their perceived value.

3. Audioholics is having a subwoofer shootout which they purport to have objectivity, rigorous testing and quantifiable results.

4. Gene DellaSala CHOSE TO COMBINE all of these factors into one editorial. He is the one who implied a correlation between these things.

I mourn the death of Journalism. There is a reason why Editors don't sell advertising and Advertising Reps don't write editorials.

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#328014 - 11/10/10 06:44 PM Re: Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout [Re: tomtuttle]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17696
Loc: NoVA
I might give Phil's argument a bit more credence, but Axiom has bent over backwards to make the EP800 users (at the very least) whole.
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#328018 - 11/10/10 07:58 PM Re: Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout [Re: tomtuttle]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 733
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I want to be clear about something, since I know that Audioholics users are monitoring content here.

I think there are four separate issues here.

1. Axiom refused to participate in the shootout. Noted. In the context of what you know about Axiom, about Audioholics, about the hobby and about hobbyists, feel free to draw your own conclusions. No problem there.

2. Axiom pulled advertising from Audioholics. This is their prerogative based on their relationship and their perceived value.

3. Audioholics is having a subwoofer shootout which they purport to have objectivity, rigorous testing and quantifiable results.

4. Gene DellaSala CHOSE TO COMBINE all of these factors into one editorial. He is the one who implied a correlation between these things.

I mourn the death of Journalism. There is a reason why Editors don't sell advertising and Advertising Reps don't write editorials.


Well said Tom, very well thought out with some excellent common sense points. This will be my last word on this, however, the more I ponder this I also think there is an irony here in that, within the last two or three years Gene has made FOUR trips to Axiom's manufacturing facility in Dwight so he has seen exactly how the R&D is carried out within the company and obviously also became very familiar with the design philosophy behind the testing and eventual product introduction. He probably has never visited most speaker companies facilities even once let alone four times.

One would would have thought, given the more than casual knowledge about Axiom and its operations, he would have had some sort of discussion with Ian about this and what they planned on doing with this sub "shoot-out" and the parameters so it would be fair and agreeable to all, yet we now have a sarcastic article and a complete severing of what was a pretty long term close relationship.

Very strange, obviously something additional happened here which we will probably never learn about.

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#328019 - 11/10/10 08:08 PM Re: Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout [Re: casey01]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Look friends, I don't know Gene and I don't know Ian. I enjoy Axiom speakers. Personally, I've stayed away from their subs.

Nevertheless, the facts seem to suggest that Axiom retaliated against Audioholics' efforts to include Axiom in a shootout. Perhaps Audioholics made the announcement that they would include Axiom subs in their shoot out before Axiom had agreed, or after Axiom changed its mind.

It is clear ... Axiom pulled its sub out of the comparison, and pulled its advertising. You can connect the dots as you will. For me, I don't think it reflects well on Axiom or on the EP subs.

As to whether KC gives "credence"
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#328020 - 11/10/10 08:12 PM Re: Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout [Re: 2x6spds]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
x's2.... smile

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#328021 - 11/10/10 08:43 PM Re: Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout [Re: tomtuttle]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3822
Loc: Up yonder
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
(unlike Robert Pirsig)


That's one of my favorite books.

I have no comments regarding the remainder of this drama. YAWN...
_________________________


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#328025 - 11/10/10 09:43 PM Re: Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout [Re: michael_d]
JohnK Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10307
Does this mean that Gene won't be making his visit to Dwight next spring?

Okay, I've quickly gone over this and what jumps out at me is that instead of simply declining to participate(as several other manufacturers did)Axiom apparently made some type of specific objection on technological grounds. If this wasn't well-founded, it made Axiom vulnerable to being the clearly identifiable target of the editorial which otherwise might have been characterized as whining over the loss of an advertiser. The ground plane subwoofer measurement technique, correctly implemented, is to my knowledge widely recognized as being very close in accuracy to results measured in free space. The cited article in Audioholics about three years ago by Sanfilipo demonstrates this, and other material in the literature which I've studied, including papers in my AES Journal, is to a similar effect.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#328033 - 11/11/10 02:13 AM Re: Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout [Re: JohnK]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Thanks for clarifying things about the ground-plane measurement John. I was to busy and not energetic enough to look it up. wink

_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#328034 - 11/11/10 02:30 AM Re: Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout [Re: grunt]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Originally Posted By: 2x6spds

It is clear ... Axiom pulled its sub out of the comparison, and pulled its advertising. You can connect the dots as you will. For me, I don't think it reflects well on Axiom or on the EP subs.


My sentiments exactly.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#328062 - 11/11/10 10:55 AM Re: Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout [Re: tomtuttle]
izzygodenov Offline
regular

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7
I thought that Axiom initially was a participant and then did an about face when the testing criteria was going to expose some weaknesses in a $2300 sub?

On you perceived value point AH isn't the first to analyze and discuss Axiom subs. Ilkka at HTS did two rounds of testing on the EP600 years ago and it wasn't flattering to something that cost North of $1600. Did Axiom have a spat with HTS and Ilkka or did they release revision?

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