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#360280 - 12/07/11 01:30 AM Re: Maybe I should start a v4.0 build thread somewhere [Re: dakkon]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4556
Loc: Marion, IA
Most of the walls were constructed on the ground and then lifted up and secured into position as on solid unit. I had a lot more control of getting things lined up quicker and more accurate than toenailing. Plus I didn't risk the chance of a nail going into a stud, hitting a knot, and firing sideways into my foot on the other side that I would have been using to hold the stud in place for the first nail or two each time.

The twisted ones now have the original two 3.25" galvanized, ring shanked nails in each end, plus some toenailed nails in as well to help hold them in place better.

At least they twisted prior to drywall. This is my 4th time finishing a basement, and I've never seen this happen before.

And what is the luck that the only 4 that did this all happened to have an outlet or switch box on them? If they didn't, then I would have just left them alone.
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, Shakers

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#360328 - 12/07/11 02:37 PM Re: Maybe I should start a v4.0 build thread somewhere [Re: nickbuol]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4556
Loc: Marion, IA
So I was about to order my Green Glue today from The Sound Proofing Company (those people who visit AVS Forums may have seen Ted White's name over there as he is one of the 2 guys running the place). Anyway, I talked to John from there and we had a good conversation about my plans, where I am at, so on and so forth. He thought that my walls, outlets, soffits, etc were all solid plans, but my ceiling was my weakest link... By a lot... Crap. I knew that already, but was hoping that some insulation and Green Glue would be "enough"...

So we talked about clips and hat channel. The thing that I was hoping to avoid since I don't want to lose ceiling height, and the stupid clips I've seen run at least $4 a piece... Anyway, he said that the way he would do it would be to put some 2x4 pieces between my ceiling/floor joists every 4 feet. Raise it up a little bit so that it isn't flush with the joists, but sort of "recessed" up a little bit. He said to make sure that the channel sticks down about half an inch below the joists to make sure that the drywall ceiling is decoupled.

Hmmm... I lose half an inch is all... My ceiling height in the unfinished room is 7 feet 10 inches, so it isn't real high, but it is only half an inch more instead of almost 1.5 - 1.75 inches lost doing it perpendicular to the joists themselves...

So anyway, we start talking price. Now I need to get exact calculations of how much I need, but it was looking like another $250 TOPs (probably closer to $225) to put in hat channel and get about twice the sound control over double drywall, Green Glue, and insulation alone. Hmmmm.....

Their discount for the GG and the speed loader for both calling in and for being an AVS member put the GG alone about $75 less than what I was expecting to pay, so mentally it is about $150-$175 more for a lot better performance (plus the cost of some 2x4s of course.

hmmmm hmmmmm hmmmmmm.....
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, Shakers

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#360329 - 12/07/11 02:47 PM Re: Maybe I should start a v4.0 build thread somewhere [Re: nickbuol]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5931
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
If you think 7' 10" is bad. My future HT site is only about 6' 10" after flooring. I'm not even going to try and decouple the ceiling, except for gg and a thin second layer of drywall.

I've been toying with the idea of some rubber strips between the joists and 1st layer of drywall. About 2 inches square, about one foot apart (with glue sticking them to the joists), and about 1/2 to 1/4 inch thick. I know it won't be as good as the Soundproofing companies products, but can't help but think it would be better than not doing this. Not to mention a whole lot cheaper. This would decouple about 90% of the ceiling.

Something like this that can be sliced up into 2 inch squares.

Sorry, CV, your message was meant to go before mine. I just took a long time writing mine.


Edited by CatBrat (12/07/11 03:04 PM)

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#360330 - 12/07/11 02:49 PM Re: Maybe I should start a v4.0 build thread somewhere [Re: CatBrat]
CV Online   confused
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11269
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Mine will be even lower than that.

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#360331 - 12/07/11 03:16 PM Re: Maybe I should start a v4.0 build thread somewhere [Re: CV]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4556
Loc: Marion, IA
Rubber idea reminds me of building a floating floor. I agree that it *should* help. How much, I don't know since you are still screwing the drywall into the joists through the rubber in a number of places. Not saying that it will hurt anything, and the benefit might be better than direct connection to the joists, but you may want to look at something with more than a 12" spacing. Just my thoughts. I have no professional expertise with that at all, but just basing it off of my conversation with John from The Sound Proofing Company.
_________________________
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, Shakers

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#360342 - 12/07/11 04:27 PM Re: Maybe I should start a v4.0 build thread somewhere [Re: nickbuol]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10964
Loc: Central NH
Woo Hoo!

My ceiling height is a little over 8.5'!!! This is the ONLY "win" I've ever had in regards to my room!
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#360346 - 12/07/11 05:41 PM Re: Maybe I should start a v4.0 build thread somewhere [Re: MarkSJohnson]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4556
Loc: Marion, IA
LOL.

Color changing LED sets came today. I had to try them out. They all work, and look pretty cool. I could probably get away with the 3 sets as-is, but I really think that the music module will be cool.
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, Shakers

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#360405 - 12/08/11 12:48 AM Re: Maybe I should start a v4.0 build thread somewhere [Re: nickbuol]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4556
Loc: Marion, IA
So I lied. I didn't take any pictures tonight. I did, however, manage to pull out all of the old wiring (that was coming out), and all of the old lights. The only wiring that is left that was from before we bought the home is the stuff going to the furnace/utility/storage room, to the outside light and outlet by the sliding door, and to 2 outlets in the bedroom. There were so many wires coming from some of the locations, that I had to trace them back to the next spot before pulling them. I pulled some wires that were just going to odd locations that I didn't even realize. I did, however, have to leave those 2 outlets in place as they were feeding up inside a wall and then up to the main floor for something. Too much hassle. There is only the one drywalled wall in the basement, and it is where the sliding door and two windows are. Per building code, since that is fully framed construction, it needed to be drywalled when they built the house. It also needed to be mudded and taped, and I didn't want to tear into all of that either.

But overall, I made some good progress, and a good mess. I do have the light in the storage/utility room that I need to run power to (it was originally just tied in to the rest of the basement lights). I have the switch run, just need to get the power, but it was going to take about an hour to do because I would need to move a bunch of stuff in the storage room to reach where I need to. I will save that for tomorrow.
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, Shakers

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#360413 - 12/08/11 01:54 AM Re: Maybe I should start a v4.0 build thread somewhere [Re: nickbuol]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I don't know how much those clip/rail systems help with cutting noise. I had some in my bedroom at my old house. We were in a high air traffic area and it was put in to help cut down the noise coming from outside. I don't think it did much as the plane noise sounded the same no matter which room we were in and the clip/rails were just in the bedrooms.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#360421 - 12/08/11 09:44 AM Re: Maybe I should start a v4.0 build thread somewhere [Re: jakewash]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4556
Loc: Marion, IA
I did some additional reading up on this late last night...

It is the clips in conjunction with the double drywall/Green Glue, plus most people attach the clips at every stud on walls (16") when the recommended spacing is 48" meaning that they have 2 additional connection points for every 2 that they are supposed to have, and since the point is to decouple with the clips/channel, and then dampen with the extra mass, if you are missing one, you aren't getting a lot of benefit. For me, I have my walls decoupled already with staggered studs, but my ceiling will still be coupled, and adding mass of the DD+GG will help, but not nearly as much as if I do that (increase mass) and decouple (clips/channel)...

Plus if all surfaces aren't "treated", you can get sound flanking, meaning that if the walls are done, but the ceiling/floor isn't, then sound can transmit to/from the ceiling/floor via the walls, or vice versa and you are screwed.

The analogy that kept coming up in the research I was doing was the old "aquarium" one. Sound will escape like water from a leaking aquarium if you don't have all surfaced treated. I'm not sure how fish get food/oxygen in such an aquarium, but that was the analogy used a lot.
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, Shakers

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