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#369690 - 03/14/12 12:51 PM Scoop on Axiom Subs?
Cork Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 76
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
Possibly an inappropriate question for the Axiom board, but I've always been curious what the deal is on the price of Axiom subs.

The more or less accepted word on Axiom non-subs is that they are high quality performers at a price point below that of similar quality competitors.

But that doesn't appear to be the case with Axiom subs. The EP125 is $128 more than the Hsu STF1 (+47%), and the EP175 is $233 more than the STF2 (+67%). Hsu is regarded as a not inexpensive higher-end sub, and the respective subs look comparable.

So why the incongruity on sub pricing compared to non-sub pricing?

[For reference, I'll add that I'm not a troll. I love my M22s, and my son loves his M3s (that I bought him!). And I frequently post positive comments regarding my Axioms on other sites. (Mostly Hometheaterforum, and sometime AVS when I'm feeling brave.)]


Edited by Cork (03/14/12 12:52 PM)

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#369703 - 03/14/12 01:33 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 768
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: Cork
Possibly an inappropriate question for the Axiom board, but I've always been curious what the deal is on the price of Axiom subs.

The more or less accepted word on Axiom non-subs is that they are high quality performers at a price point below that of similar quality competitors.

But that doesn't appear to be the case with Axiom subs. The EP125 is $128 more than the Hsu STF1 (+47%), and the EP175 is $233 more than the STF2 (+67%). Hsu is regarded as a not inexpensive higher-end sub, and the respective subs look comparable.

So why the incongruity on sub pricing compared to non-sub pricing?

[For reference, I'll add that I'm not a troll. I love my M22s, and my son loves his M3s (that I bought him!). And I frequently post positive comments regarding my Axioms on other sites. (Mostly Hometheaterforum, and sometime AVS when I'm feeling brave.)]


Ultimately, only the "chiefs" at Axiom can determine how their pricing is formulated, but, in the case of the subs, when comparing to HSU in particular(along with several others), you will notice on their website despite stating "designed and engineered in the USA" only the "top-of-the line" ULS series is actually "assembled" in the US as opposed to China for most of their other models. You will also notice, the ULS subs cost considerably more. Other than the drivers, all the Axiom subs are designed, engineered and assembled in Canada, so, no doubt, a cost structure similar to the US, hence, the price differential.

In the case of the sub price structure, I am only speculating, however, that could be the reason for the difference you are questioning.

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#369704 - 03/14/12 01:38 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
I think it comes from the DSP... I have a buddy who recently was in the sub market, and he had the same comment as yourself... He wound up going with a HSU sub, i dont remember which one though....



That is the only thing that i could see would drive up the price... The amp section/DSP, which is part of the amp...

With that being said, i bought a EP600 on pre-order back in the day when they first came out with that sub, and i have recently placed an order for a second 600... There is 0 distortion from the sub... Am i paying more than an alternate product, possibly... But honestly i dont care, the 600 sounds freakin awsome laugh..


I hope this helps answer your question...

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#369711 - 03/14/12 03:36 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8294
Loc: Tacoma
+1 on all-of-the-above.

Some other ID companies don't include shipping.

"Value" is a subjective thing.

Also, Axiom offers a choice of standard and custom finishes (albeit, custom at additional cost) not always available with other vendors. Not everybody wants black.

I'm not sure that Axiom has adequately articulated their philosophy on subs. Many/most companies and consumers are seduced by the seemingly straightforward specifications available in subwoofer marketing. One of the things NOT commonly discussed is the amount of distortion at particular frequencies. I think it's safe to say that there is honest and respectful disagreement about audibility of distortion at low frequencies. My understanding is that Axiom subs are engineered to deliver high spls without correspondingly high distortion found in some competing models. As to whether or not that notion "matters", I'm not sure. But I continue to trust Axiom designs, because I perceive them primarily as an R&D company.

I own an older SVS sub, btw. The bottom-firing form factor was a key criterion when I was shopping, and was not offered by Axiom. I have heard Axiom subs on several occasions (including direct comparisons) and thought they were just wonderful.
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#369754 - 03/14/12 09:40 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
Here's my 2 cents on the whole axiom sub pricing. I have owned both the ep350 and dual ep500's. Yes, I could have gotten less expensive subs and researched many subs prior to purchasing. But at the time and for me, the quality sound of axiom subs for music along with dsp control, was very much worth every penny I paid. No regrets.

However, I have moved more to movies as of late and needed more impact. And I mean impact that would peel the paint off the walls. You can see in my sig obviously I now have duals 18 inch subs by CHT. Sold the dual ep500's. Would I have liked to get dual ep800's? Of course, I just didn't have the coin to do so.

If I could afford the dual ep800's, I certainly would have purchased them and yes, they would peel the paint off the walls as well.

Perception is reality, I spent less money getting the impact I wanted, but again I would not hesitate recommending axiom subs. Yes, you "may" pay more, but they have a sound all thier own, that one must hear to appreciate.


Edited by Dduval (03/14/12 10:04 PM)
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

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#369807 - 03/15/12 01:11 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Cork Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 76
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
Hmmm … I appreciate the hypotheses, but I’m not yet convinced there’s a good reason for Axiom’s subwoofer pricing structure.

It’s not the DSP. The lower three models, which include the 2 models I mentioned, don’t have that feature. Neither Axiom nor Hsu publish SPL graphs for those subs, with or without distortion information, so there’s no reason to believe one is better than the other. I’ll add that quality is the reason I used Hsu as a comparison, as they are generally considered high quality.

Local labor is a good reason. I’d be willing to pay a bit more for a product made in North America, but 50% more taxes my good will in that regard. So if that’s the reason I’d say it’s not a good one. The Axioms definitely look nicer than the default black (which Hsu uses), so there’s that.

Oh well, thanks for the feedback. I’d say I still can’t justify spending the money for an Axiom sub. It just seems so strange that the apparent cost/performance ratio for subs is a 180 from that for the other speakers.

I’m not actually in the market for a sub; the question came about as I was doing the usual window shopping and thinking "wouldn’t it be nice ..." I guess I'll have to go back to pining over the M60s.

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#369813 - 03/15/12 02:10 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Jasper Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: Cork
It just seems so strange that the apparent cost/performance ratio for subs is a 180 from that for the other speakers.

The other speakers don't have amps. That's the one thing that sets the subs apart from the other speakers, isn't it?

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#369826 - 03/15/12 03:55 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8294
Loc: Tacoma
Right, Jasper, and I don't think that Axiom uses off-the-shelf amps. I don't know where they are manufactured, but suspect they are not simply a rebranded version of something else.

Well, we're really looking at the issue from a consumer perspective without ANY meaningful knowledge of the actual sourcing and manufacturing costs. So, I guess I'm confident/comfortable that Axiom's "pricing structure" makes sense for them. If they thought it would be more profitable to price the subs lower and sell more of them, I'm sure that's what they would do.

Again, in my somewhat limited experience, I think the Axiom subs sound very natural. Perhaps somewhat "dry" compared to other models; a bit like the bass extension from a transmission-line loudspeaker.

I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that the "cost/performance ratio for subs is a 180 from that for the other speakers". Individuals might perceive different levels of value from different products, but that phrasing implies that the speakers are a great value and the subs are a terrible value. I just don't think that's fair.
_________________________
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#369827 - 03/15/12 04:05 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: tomtuttle]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Right, Jasper, and I don't think that Axiom uses off-the-shelf amps. I don't know where they are manufactured, but suspect they are not simply a rebranded version of something else.


They aren't rebranded amps, i have replaced the amp in my EP600, so i have seen the old version of the amps and the new version.. They are not using another companies product and putting an axiom name plate on it. When i ordered my new amp, Brent said that the amp that was coming to me was in the quality control booth ( I may have called him a couple times to check on the status of my new purchase smile ).. So they essentially built an amp just for me... Well, pulled one off of the shelf and tested prior to sending to me anyhow.. But you get my point. If Brent was able to find out where the product was in the manufacturing process within a day and tell me where it was in the manufacturing process, it is almost guaranteed that it is manufactured in house.

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#369868 - 03/16/12 10:55 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: dakkon]
Jc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 501
Loc: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
Originally Posted By: dakkon
. . . it is almost guaranteed that it is manufactured in house.


Hi Dakkon,

Axiom subwoofer amplifiers as all Axiom amplifiers are designed and built in house by Axiom. It has been the case for many years.
_________________________
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Axiom Audio Expert / jc@axiomaudio.com
Recrutement d'Intégrateurs/Installateurs professionnels Québec

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#370044 - 03/17/12 10:21 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Jc]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
Awesome JC! Are the drivers made by you guys also?
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#370061 - 03/18/12 12:24 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
SBrown, i am fairly sure that the drivers are outsourced.. However, this brings up a question about the new speaker... Since the new speaker has 2 options for drivers, i wonder what the difference is... Besides what the site says. "die-cast"... I think i will be calling tomorrow to get an answer, as i may change my order slightly...

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#370062 - 03/18/12 12:32 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: dakkon]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
Good call on the driver deal, wonder if Axiom could clarify, and what is the difference in the die-cast vs other?
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#370063 - 03/18/12 12:39 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: SBrown]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: SBrown
Good call on the driver deal, wonder if Axiom could clarify, and what is the difference in the die-cast vs other?


Might be more ridged of a basket for the woofer? I am not sure what the difference would be for the tweeter though....

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#370072 - 03/18/12 08:40 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: SBrown]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 177
Originally Posted By: SBrown
Awesome JC! Are the drivers made by you guys also?


ALL of our drivers are designed and manufactured in-house. This is the only way to have full control over performance and quality. Our subwoofer baskets are already die-cast. The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option. smile

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#370108 - 03/18/12 03:17 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Andrew]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: SBrown
Awesome JC! Are the drivers made by you guys also?


ALL of our drivers are designed and manufactured in-house. This is the only way to have full control over performance and quality. Our subwoofer baskets are already die-cast. The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option. smile


Sorry to be a fly in the ointment here but I'm not sure I buy into the notion that the only way to maintain quality is to build your own drivers. Many of your competitors use OEM parts or they work with OEM companies to spec their parts. They have no QC issues as far as I know. In fact, many of them offer much higher performing products dollar for dollar as a result.

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#370119 - 03/18/12 04:52 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8294
Loc: Tacoma
You're not sorry. You're a troll.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#370135 - 03/18/12 07:12 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: tomtuttle]
GOD Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3169
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
You're not sorry. You're a troll.


Oooh! Now you're stepping on toes, Tom. I always thought that it was Mark's responsibility alone to employ that word here. I love when he uses it, 'cause he does it in such a sassy way. C'mon, Mark! Type it for us again, just this once.
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#370136 - 03/18/12 07:13 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
I've expanded. I use Trollop now.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#370138 - 03/18/12 07:16 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
GOD Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3169
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
And if they're just a little "trolly," are they a dollop of trollop?


Edited by BobKay (03/18/12 07:16 PM)
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#370139 - 03/18/12 07:18 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: GOD]
GOD Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3169
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Trolls are male. I think it's extremely difficult for a man to be a trollop. I take that back. I KNOW it's difficult for a man to be a trollop.
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#370145 - 03/18/12 07:42 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Lampshade Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: Holbrook, MA
Bob's back!
_________________________
M3 and Manley Stingray
M80 and Pioneer SC 55

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#370161 - 03/18/12 08:54 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: GOD]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
That is irritating!


edit: not you Bob..hahah!


That JBall less dude?? I don't get the remorse?


Edited by SBrown (03/18/12 08:57 PM)
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#370204 - 03/19/12 02:11 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: JBall]
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2726
Loc: CA, USA
Originally Posted By: JBall
Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: SBrown
Awesome JC! Are the drivers made by you guys also?


ALL of our drivers are designed and manufactured in-house. This is the only way to have full control over performance and quality. Our subwoofer baskets are already die-cast. The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option. smile


Sorry to be a fly in the ointment here but I'm not sure I buy into the notion that the only way to maintain quality is to build your own drivers. Many of your competitors use OEM parts or they work with OEM companies to spec their parts. They have no QC issues as far as I know. In fact, many of them offer much higher performing products dollar for dollar as a result.


With respect to speakers (not subs) I am not aware of any "higher performing products dollar for dollar" than Axiom speakers. What products are you referring to?
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Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#370231 - 03/19/12 11:40 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: 2x6spds]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: 2x6spds
Originally Posted By: JBall
Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: SBrown
Awesome JC! Are the drivers made by you guys also?


ALL of our drivers are designed and manufactured in-house. This is the only way to have full control over performance and quality. Our subwoofer baskets are already die-cast. The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option. smile


Sorry to be a fly in the ointment here but I'm not sure I buy into the notion that the only way to maintain quality is to build your own drivers. Many of your competitors use OEM parts or they work with OEM companies to spec their parts. They have no QC issues as far as I know. In fact, many of them offer much higher performing products dollar for dollar as a result.


With respect to speakers (not subs) I am not aware of any "higher performing products dollar for dollar" than Axiom speakers. What products are you referring to?


My focus was on their subs but there are many brands competitive and perhaps a better value than Axiom when it comes to speakers.

Here are a few:
Aperion Audio Verus
ARX Speakers
Ascend Acoustics

And that is just in the "A's". I recently heard the Ascend Acoustics new Tower and it slayed my M60s. I am saving up now to get them and sell my M60s to my neighbor.

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#370233 - 03/19/12 11:49 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
OMG! Ascend offers a tweeter option! What's wrong with them? Why not just include the best tweeter for a speaker of that price?? shocked


Edited by MarkSJohnson (03/19/12 11:50 AM)
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#370235 - 03/19/12 12:02 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
OMG! Ascend offers a tweeter option! What's wrong with them? Why not just include the best tweeter for a speaker of that price?? shocked


Yes and they acknowledge there is a performance difference with the upgrade. It's not just audio jewelry. I didn't even hear the model with the tweeter upgrade and it was simply amazing.

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#370237 - 03/19/12 12:16 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: JBall]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Arx offers cast baskets on the midwoofers at no extra cost, plus XBL2/splitgap technology. And they are cheaper than Axioms compariable models. Plus the planar tweeters use neo magnets which is very expensive right now.

But stamped can be very good too, but I think maybe Axioms current driver tech just doesn't benefit from die-cast some other woofers do.

Theres a big difference between upgrading from a soft dome tweeter to a planar transducer like the Ascend offers. IMO theres a huge difference between domes and planars, planars to me reproduce strings better and offer higher peak dynamics than domes do.

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#370238 - 03/19/12 12:17 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17791
Loc: NoVA
Bye.
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#370239 - 03/19/12 12:18 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

The Accends are very good speakers, I picked the 340s for my sisters theater system. Do they best my Axioms? No, no they don't but then again I have M80s.

Her center can't touch the VP160, that for sure. And the surrounds aren't even close to being as good as the QS series.

But they are a good speaker for the money, there's no arguing that.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#370241 - 03/19/12 12:28 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Wid]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: Wid

The Accends are very good speakers, I picked the 340s for my sisters theater system. Do they best my Axioms? No, no they don't but then again I have M80s.

Her center can't touch the VP160, that for sure. And the surrounds aren't even close to being as good as the QS series.

But they are a good speaker for the money, there's no arguing that.



The Sierra Towers are in a different league than the 340s. Ascends as do many other brands, offer different levels of performance based on price. Axiom uses the same drivers in all their products and as you go up in $$$, you get larger speakers that will play louder, but NOT better drivers or parts. The advantage to the Axiom model is it saves them $$$ by using the same drivers and building higher quantities to reduce costs while also using the same cut outs in their boxes.

BTW I have a VP150 which is NOT even listenable if I sit in the far left or right seats. I didn't understand why till I started reading about its lobing issues. How can a company of science make such a glaring mistake in a product?

I'd love to change out my VP150 to a VP160 but not after hearing how much better the Ascend Sierra towers are. Now I will just sell off my Axiom speakers but I may keep my QS8s b/c they do a good job and are wall mounted.

Looking at the Ascend Sierra Center, I'm not sure that's a good solution b/c it will suffer the same issue as my VP150.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1C/srm1c.html

I think I'd rather have a VP160 in this case.

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#370243 - 03/19/12 12:36 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Well I suppose at a tad over $1900 they should sound good. Then a $700 tweeter upgrade? If the tweeter is that good they should offer it as standard equipment.

For that kind of money I'd be a Magnepan owner.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#370244 - 03/19/12 12:39 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Wid]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: Wid

Well I suppose at a tad over $1900 they should sound good. Then a $700 tweeter upgrade? If the tweeter is that good they should offer it as standard equipment.

For that kind of money I'd be a Magnepan owner.



I know its an expensive tweet and I agree I'd probably consider other options at that price like Salk or even the Maggies.

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#370245 - 03/19/12 12:44 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I agree. Looking at the specs of the Accend towers and the Axiom M80 the M80s actually best the Accends. So maybe they're not as good a deal as I would have thought from a budget speaker company.

Looking at the frequency graphs of both the M80s also look smoother, just sayin.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#370246 - 03/19/12 12:46 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: JBall]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80

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#370247 - 03/19/12 12:48 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Wid]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: Wid

I agree. Looking at the specs of the Accend towers and the Axiom M80 the M80s actually best the Accends. So maybe they're not as good a deal as I would have thought from a budget speaker company.

Looking at the frequency graphs of both the M80s also look smoother, just sayin.


Measurements are easily manipulated and Axiom doesn't give you the detail of measurements that Ascends does. Not a fair comparison. Ascend's actually gives you off axis response and waterfall curves and they use 50dB scale. The Axiom measurement is a 120dB scale and only on-axis!

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#370248 - 03/19/12 12:49 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper


OMG I am drooling now. Where is that on their website! WOW!

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#370253 - 03/19/12 01:03 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: JBall]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
I think its only available as of right now through requests only. But I think it will be a new model listed on their site later.

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#370255 - 03/19/12 01:09 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
I think you should both buy Ascends but only with the $700 tweeter upgrade. I know you'll hear the difference.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#370256 - 03/19/12 01:14 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Adrian]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: Adrian
I think you should both buy Ascends but only with the $700 tweeter upgrade. I know you'll hear the difference.


or I could be like you and buy the kool aid that sonic nirvana has been achieved with what you already have.

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#370257 - 03/19/12 01:19 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
I'm trying to help you dude. Why the hostility GT, I mean JB?
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#370259 - 03/19/12 01:32 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
You must be confused I haven't been hostile. Sub forum is called "Advice from Axiom Owners" I'm an Axiom owner and just giving my 2 cents.

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#370260 - 03/19/12 01:34 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
In yet you always show up here together. Coincidence?
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#370267 - 03/19/12 01:57 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
LMAO we're not the same person.

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#370268 - 03/19/12 02:08 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Adrian;

is it so unbelievable that two different Axiom owners have had listening experiences outside of their Axiom speakers that they preferred? If so, then everyone at AVS also sharing the same experiences must be the same person too. You sound like a Right Wing Conspiracy Theorist. Do you work for Fox news?

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#370272 - 03/19/12 02:32 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
They seem to take it personal if someone like myself says that I prefer the Arx A1's over the Axiom M2/M22's. Or that i'm not impressed with the EP175 performance/build quality for a $582.00 subwoofer.

Or when I suggested that Axiom could easily improve the VP150 but removing one of the tweeters and putting it center and flanking it by a pair of woofers on each end, kind of like the VP100 just with an extra woofer on the end. I though the point of the dual tweeters was to improve power handling to match the towers, well now with matching VP160/80 centers the VP150 should more closely match the M22's.

I've never called anyone names or attacked anyone personally. They say they don't like AVS or Audioholics cause they are just nasty mean places, this forum isn't very inviting or polite not by a long shot, they get down right hateful with there comments. I don't know why they get defensive its just a conversation about speakers.

They even started getting a litte irate at Grunt for suggesting that the VP150 isn't that great of a center channel along time ago.


Edited by gtpsuper (03/19/12 02:36 PM)

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#370274 - 03/19/12 02:49 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: JBall]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: JBall
Originally Posted By: Wid

I agree. Looking at the specs of the Accend towers and the Axiom M80 the M80s actually best the Accends. So maybe they're not as good a deal as I would have thought from a budget speaker company.

Looking at the frequency graphs of both the M80s also look smoother, just sayin.


Measurements are easily manipulated and Axiom doesn't give you the detail of measurements that Ascends does.

This just shows that you've already made up your mind that Axiom is a tainted brand. When presented with contrary evidence, you tighten your sphincter and insinuate that Axiom is doctoring their data. You're delusional. Why continue beating this horse? Just buy something else and move along.

Please.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#370278 - 03/19/12 02:54 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8294
Loc: Tacoma
I'm here to have fun.

JBall and gtsuper's posts diminish my fun.

That is all.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#370279 - 03/19/12 02:54 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: pmbuko]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: JBall
Originally Posted By: Wid

I agree. Looking at the specs of the Accend towers and the Axiom M80 the M80s actually best the Accends. So maybe they're not as good a deal as I would have thought from a budget speaker company.

Looking at the frequency graphs of both the M80s also look smoother, just sayin.


Measurements are easily manipulated and Axiom doesn't give you the detail of measurements that Ascends does.

This just shows that you've already made up your mind that Axiom is a tainted brand. When presented with contrary evidence, you tighten your sphincter and insinuate that Axiom is doctoring their data. You're delusional. Why continue beating this horse? Just buy something else and move along.

Please.


Fair enough, I can see fellow owners taking offense when they are told other fellow owners prefer the sound of other speakers. Time to hang my hat here and goto the Ascend forum to meet and greet the community I will be joining as soon as I can make the upgrade.

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#370281 - 03/19/12 02:55 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6402
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
They seem to take it personal if someone like myself says that I prefer the Arx A1's over the Axiom M2/M22's.

Don't lump the whole board in as "they". I suspect that there's a bunch of us on the sidelines who aren't invested in being either "a fanboy" or a "troll". Once those labels get thrown out there, I move along to another thread. Life's too short to suffer pettiness - from either group. I read a lot of these posts and find myself thinking, "So what?" and moving on.

What I do care about is having an online community that I like to belong to, to check in with for laughs and helpful info. As long as everyone keeps their posts within an admittedly gray zone of socially acceptable behavior, I don't raise an eyebrow.

- edit - in the time that this sat unsent on my desktop, tomtuttle summed up a lot of this in his succinct post.


Edited by medic8r (03/19/12 02:58 PM)
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#370284 - 03/19/12 03:18 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: pmbuko]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4080
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: JBall
Originally Posted By: Wid

I agree. Looking at the specs of the Accend towers and the Axiom M80 the M80s actually best the Accends. So maybe they're not as good a deal as I would have thought from a budget speaker company.

Looking at the frequency graphs of both the M80s also look smoother, just sayin.


Measurements are easily manipulated and Axiom doesn't give you the detail of measurements that Ascends does.

This just shows that you've already made up your mind that Axiom is a tainted brand. When presented with contrary evidence, you tighten your sphincter and insinuate that Axiom is doctoring their data. You're delusional. Why continue beating this horse? Just buy something else and move along.

Please.


I am assuming Wid is getting his measurements off the Axiom website compared to that of Ascends off their website.

You can't compare the two simply for the fact that Axiom is using a 120db scale with smoothing applied while Ascend uses 50db scale un-smoothed.

These two factors alone can make a graph look a lot "smoother" when you cut down on the resolution.

Ascend also shows a whole suite of measurements including the polar response. To objectively compare the two you would have to compare the same suite of measurements using the same scale and preferably without any smoothing applied.


_________________________
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#370287 - 03/19/12 03:32 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: JBall]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: JBall
Fair enough, I can see fellow owners taking offense when they are told other fellow owners prefer the sound of other speakers.

See, that's not it at all. I'm not an indoctrinated blind devotee of Axiom. Most other people here aren't either. There are ways to state your differing preference without coming off like a jerk. Instead, you quite publicly questioned the very integrity of the company right on their doorstep. If you don't think insinuating that Axiom fudges their graphs is in poor taste, then you lack a moral compass and I look forward to your departure with the utmost impatience.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#370288 - 03/19/12 03:36 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: pmbuko]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: JBall
Fair enough, I can see fellow owners taking offense when they are told other fellow owners prefer the sound of other speakers.

See, that's not it at all. I'm not an indoctrinated blind devotee of Axiom. Most other people here aren't either. There are ways to state your differing preference without coming off like a jerk. Instead, you quite publicly questioned the very integrity of the company right on their doorstep. If you don't think insinuating that Axiom fudges their graphs is in poor taste, then you lack a moral compass and I look forward to your departure with the utmost impatience.


He never said Axiom fudges their graphs, they just don't offer the suit of graphs and measurements Ascend does, which is 100% true. Ascend is rare and that they give just about every measurement/graph you could ask for plus if your not satified with whats posted they will email you others. This is something that Axiom does not do.

Axiom also isn't consistent with what they offer, some models have freq response graphs with a link while others like, EP125, EP175, EP350, EP400, and QS4 don't have a freq response or impedance graph.


Edited by gtpsuper (03/19/12 03:41 PM)

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#370291 - 03/19/12 03:44 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle

I'm here to have fun.

JBall and gtsuper's posts diminish my fun.

That is all.

When something isn’t fun I try not to do it.


P. S. It’s called the “Ignore” button.


Edited by grunt (03/19/12 03:48 PM)
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#370294 - 03/19/12 03:50 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: tomtuttle]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I'm here to have fun.

JBall and gtsuper's posts diminish my fun.

That is all.


Whatever, your one of the first ones to go negative, call names, insult, and start calling other members trolls.

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#370298 - 03/19/12 04:37 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I'm here to have fun.

JBall and gtsuper's posts diminish my fun.

That is all.


Whatever, your one of the first ones to go negative, call names, insult, and start calling other members trolls.


I though that was Marks job?

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#370301 - 03/19/12 04:47 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
Tom should know better than anyone not to step on the toes of a member of local TCNE 106 union member. (Troll-Callers NorthEast #106).
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#370307 - 03/19/12 05:00 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6402
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I'm here to have fun.

JBall and gtsuper's posts diminish my fun.

That is all.


Whatever, your [sic] one of the first ones to go negative, call names, insult, and start calling other members trolls.

If you had a chance to meet Tom and have a beer with him, as I have, you'd undoubtedly find him one of the classiest guys on this forum. If you were still to think otherwise, then, well, that'd say it all to me.

One of the internet's superpowers is getting someone to rage against someone else they've never met and really don't understand.

The other superpower, apparently, is porn.
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#370310 - 03/19/12 05:09 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: pmbuko]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: JBall
Fair enough, I can see fellow owners taking offense when they are told other fellow owners prefer the sound of other speakers.

See, that's not it at all. I'm not an indoctrinated blind devotee of Axiom. Most other people here aren't either. There are ways to state your differing preference without coming off like a jerk. Instead, you quite publicly questioned the very integrity of the company right on their doorstep. If you don't think insinuating that Axiom fudges their graphs is in poor taste, then you lack a moral compass and I look forward to your departure with the utmost impatience.


Don't worry, I just registered on Ascend Forum and waiting for the account to approve.

In the meantime, I am rather enjoying this review:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0312/sierra_tower_speaker.htm

Hmm, maybe this professional reviewer is crazy b/c he didn't listen to them in his anechoic chamber smile

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#370311 - 03/19/12 05:11 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: BlueJays1]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: BlueJays1
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: JBall
Originally Posted By: Wid

I agree. Looking at the specs of the Accend towers and the Axiom M80 the M80s actually best the Accends. So maybe they're not as good a deal as I would have thought from a budget speaker company.

Looking at the frequency graphs of both the M80s also look smoother, just sayin.


Measurements are easily manipulated and Axiom doesn't give you the detail of measurements that Ascends does.

This just shows that you've already made up your mind that Axiom is a tainted brand. When presented with contrary evidence, you tighten your sphincter and insinuate that Axiom is doctoring their data. You're delusional. Why continue beating this horse? Just buy something else and move along.

Please.


I am assuming Wid is getting his measurements off the Axiom website compared to that of Ascends off their website.

You can't compare the two simply for the fact that Axiom is using a 120db scale with smoothing applied while Ascend uses 50db scale un-smoothed.

These two factors alone can make a graph look a lot "smoother" when you cut down on the resolution.

Ascend also shows a whole suite of measurements including the polar response. To objectively compare the two you would have to compare the same suite of measurements using the same scale and preferably without any smoothing applied.



Great post glad to see some rational people remain on this forum.

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#370316 - 03/19/12 07:29 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: medic8r]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: medic8r
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I'm here to have fun.

JBall and gtsuper's posts diminish my fun.

That is all.


Whatever, your [sic] one of the first ones to go negative, call names, insult, and start calling other members trolls.

If you had a chance to meet Tom and have a beer with him, as I have, you'd undoubtedly find him one of the classiest guys on this forum.


He might be a classy guy as I don't know him, all I do know is that he started the Troll nonsense and is a forum regualar that does attack people with a different opinion.

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#370322 - 03/19/12 08:34 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7147
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper

He might be a classy guy as I don't know him, all I do know is that he started the Troll nonsense and is a forum regualar that does attack people with a different opinion.

As I recall, last time you were here, you pretty much trashed anybody who disagreed with you. You then took your piddling match over to Audioholics and started trolling Axiom until the owner of the site slapped you down. I also seem to recall his response to your opinion was quite clear. "Axiom subs are not junk."

Look in the mirror, consider the word troll, and consider how you might alter YOUR behavior.

Honestly, some peoples kids...
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#370327 - 03/19/12 08:59 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: fredk]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
gtpsuper was the first to trash Axiom's new speakers over at Audioholics also with his "bracing issues"
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#370328 - 03/19/12 09:19 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
LMAO we're not the same person.

Sorry if you misunderstood me, I never meant to imply that you two were the same person, only that you might be co-joined twins or something because you always show up in the same places at the same time. That's all.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#370329 - 03/19/12 09:23 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
I'm not trashing those new speakers. Read the first post where Gene posted "What are your thoughts on the new Axiom speakers?"

You get responses like:

"Wow really tall cabinet, hope they take cabinet bracing seriously on this model. But I really doubt that." Mine and I do hope they make a solid cabinet unless they consider a solid well braced cabinet "Jewerly" Heres some responses from other members.

"They would be better off with less drivers, but better ones, a better crossover and probably a better cabinet."

"I think they need more tweeters and midrange drivers on both sides of the speaker in addition to the front & back. More is better. That's their motto."

"They're out of their minds. $4K for a pair of speakers that look like they were thrown together with whatever parts they could find laying around."

"There are actual engineering principles at hand which can make them superior to stamped versions. Perhaps with their own driver technology they use there is no difference or they just don't know how to design a driver where a cast-basket is beneficial.

I don't think axiom understands what audio jewelry really means. Audio jewelry refers to aesthetic accessory upgrades like cables, terminations, outriggers, grilles and crap like that. Components that make up a driver is NOT audio jewelry."

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#370332 - 03/19/12 09:33 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
You like refueling the fire, over there and here.

edit: anyway I am done!


Edited by SBrown (03/19/12 09:36 PM)
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#370333 - 03/19/12 09:43 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Sorry would this be better for you?

OMG OMG OMG Axiom just made the most super duper awesomeness speaker ever, not even speakers costing gazillion dollars can match these. I haven't heard them yet but OMG OMG OMG Axiom says there will be AWESOME so I believe them, where can I send my money. Nobody has even heard them yet outside of Axiom but i've already made my mind up that these will be the best speakers i've ever heard.

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#370334 - 03/19/12 09:52 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
Well, you're critical of them without having heard them; why should you make fun of people who like them without having heard them.

Look, you're a troll. You have an axe to grind with Axiom, so you feel some need to come here and tell us we're all wrong for being happy with Axiom products and the service we receive from the company.

Smarten up and realize that we believe what we believe and you believe what you believe. The difference is, we don't go to YOUR home and trash your preferences.

Just go away already.

I've fed the troll... sorry guys. I'm done with him.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#370335 - 03/19/12 09:58 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
Well, one more thing. This is GTStupor's post:

Quote:
are you upset that people on the Axiom forum like Axiom speakers? Sorry the products you purchased where definitly not up to Axioms quality. I like my VP150 i'm happy with it and no one is going to tell me that is sounds horrible, I evaluate speakers with my ears not a chart or someones option. If your so uphappy with the recent purchase beg Axiom to take them back and go with another maker. If I buy something thats not quality I'll return it and try again, after that go somewhere else, Paradigm, PSB, Aperion, Ascend, and many other choices. Do us happy Axioms owners a favor and quit telling us how bad our speakers our, yes i've read many reviews on Axioms nothing new. Do I have gripes about Axiom yes (subs need to be almost half the price they are now to be taken serious against the competition), but I don't hammer away on the forum for days, just go to AVS or something.


Nice advice!

OK, NOW I'm done.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#370336 - 03/19/12 10:02 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
I didn't want to start all this, I came to the forum to check on new info about the new speakers to post it over on Audioholics for anyone interested in it. Till I noticed that JBall who was be fairly polite and just discussing products was getting jumped on by several members and being call a troll and SBrown made the comment "JBall Less dude" Really?

My first post in this thread was civilized, polite and non combative. Posted my observations about other speakers since part of the discusses was stamped vs cast. Also about tweeter upgrade vs no upgrade.

I then directed JBall who was comparing Ascend to Axiom and I directed him toward an AVS thread with the new Sierra Horizon center.

Thats when you typical Axiom fanboys started baiting for a fight cause you don't like conversation about other brands vs Axiom. "Why the hostility GT, I mean JB?" Thats whats called baiting for a fight. Cause you can't get over what happened on another thread 2-3 months ago.




Edited by gtpsuper (03/19/12 10:04 PM)

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#370337 - 03/19/12 10:05 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16289
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
I'm not trashing those new speakers. Read the first post where Gene posted "What are your thoughts on the new Axiom speakers?"

You get responses like:

"Wow really tall cabinet, hope they take cabinet bracing seriously on this model. But I really doubt that." Mine and I do hope they make a solid cabinet unless they consider a solid well braced cabinet "Jewerly" Heres some responses from other members.

"They would be better off with less drivers, but better ones, a better crossover and probably a better cabinet."

"I think they need more tweeters and midrange drivers on both sides of the speaker in addition to the front & back. More is better. That's their motto."

"They're out of their minds. $4K for a pair of speakers that look like they were thrown together with whatever parts they could find laying around."

"There are actual engineering principles at hand which can make them superior to stamped versions. Perhaps with their own driver technology they use there is no difference or they just don't know how to design a driver where a cast-basket is beneficial.

I don't think axiom understands what audio jewelry really means. Audio jewelry refers to aesthetic accessory upgrades like cables, terminations, outriggers, grilles and crap like that. Components that make up a driver is NOT audio jewelry."

The internet is full of this kind of armchair engineering. People who have little idea what they're talking about telling professionals what they should be doing.

Some things never change.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#370342 - 03/19/12 11:09 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
gtp: I provided some sage advice to you here several months ago - dispose of your present gear, purchase something else & get on with your life. Perhaps you should consider speakers with solid gold milled baskets with inert titanium alloy bracing filling a thick molded carbon fiber cabinet. Also, be sure to include optional $6000 tweeters - they really do sound that much better. Maybe then you will finally achieve the audio nirvana that you so desperately seek - but obviously will not find here.

Personally, I couldn't care less what my baskets are made of, as long as they do the job that they were designed to do. The same goes for crossovers & with bracing (or lack thereof). My 21 year old AX2s that I listen to daily still sound great to me. My newer M22s/QS4s combined with my twin Velo subs in my HT also sound 'similarly good' to my family & friends. In fact my Axioms actually sound quite excellent to me & that is all that is important. Hard for you to believe I know, although it seems that your Axioms used to sound good to you a couple of years ago.

I will not stoop to calling you names; however, I will tell you what you are - a Troll of the highest order. For you, that's something to be proud of I guess. Now you can go back to your other forums & whine again about the mean folks here who keep calling you names.

Good Bye for the last time I hope....

BTW - I own a fine, Bright Red, 1999 Supercharged GTP 2-door Coupe that is as 'similarly good' as any other car of its vintage out there, ha!!

Tom
Comox, BC


Edited by exlabdriver (03/19/12 11:53 PM)

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#370348 - 03/20/12 12:01 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Adrian]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Originally Posted By: Adrian
I think you should both buy Ascends but only with the $700 tweeter upgrade. I know you'll hear the difference.


I am in Markham if you'd like to hear for youself.... wink

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#370370 - 03/20/12 09:41 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
Only if you opted for the $1000 upgraded titanium baskets and platinum infused binding posts. wink
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#370372 - 03/20/12 09:49 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Adrian]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Originally Posted By: Adrian
Only if you opted for the $1000 upgraded titanium baskets and platinum infused binding posts. wink



Doh...I didn't know they were an option....otherwise.. grin

Anyways if your up this way just let me know...I have both Axiom and Ascends in home wink


Edited by billy p (03/20/12 09:49 AM)

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#370375 - 03/20/12 10:09 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
I hope you are enjoying both.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#370377 - 03/20/12 10:14 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Adrian]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
As you can see by my sig...YES...I am... smile

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#370399 - 03/20/12 01:54 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Adrian]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: Adrian
Only if you opted for the $1000 upgraded titanium baskets and platinum infused binding posts. wink


I bet if Ian did a quick marketing newsletter about how much better Axiom speakers sound with platium infused binding posts, it would become all the rage. You all would be lining up to upgrade all your speakers, cause if Ian so said it must be true.

I'd rather have a well designed, well engineered, good sounding Chinese speaker, than a Canadian built turd.

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#370400 - 03/20/12 01:56 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
Tell us again how you're not a troll?
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#370401 - 03/20/12 02:12 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5914
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Sounds like he believes anything anybody says, as long as it's not from Axiom.

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#370404 - 03/20/12 02:58 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: CatBrat]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 768
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Sounds like he believes anything anybody says, as long as it's not from Axiom.


Unfortunately, the moment Audioholics announced this speaker, this same rant between this clown and the other (TLS Guy), the greatest speaker experts of our time, started. I didn't know one could offer such valuable, magical expertise from just looking at a picture. It certainly is quite a unique ability, heretofore, unheard of in the CE business. In either case, they obviously have absolutely nothing else to do with their time.


Edited by casey01 (03/20/12 03:00 PM)

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#370406 - 03/20/12 03:45 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: casey01]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Originally Posted By: casey01
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Sounds like he believes anything anybody says, as long as it's not from Axiom.


Unfortunately, the moment Audioholics announced this speaker, this same rant between this clown and the other (TLS Guy), the greatest speaker experts of our time, started. I didn't know one could offer such valuable, magical expertise from just looking at a picture. It certainly is quite a unique ability, heretofore, unheard of in the CE business. In either case, they obviously have absolutely nothing else to do with their time.




I don't always agree with TLS Guy but he is a well versed individual regarding speaker design and is a doctor by profession. If you didn't agree with something he said and since you follow audioholics take it up with him there...don't come here and call him names!




Edited by billy p (03/20/12 03:51 PM)

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#370407 - 03/20/12 04:21 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
Rock_Head Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 870
Loc: Delta, BC, Canada
I didn't know there was such a thing as a well designed, well engineered, good sounding Chinese speaker. BTW, does it come with a translator? On another note, Axiom speakers are not a Canadian built turd. This topic however is starting to smell like one eek

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#370415 - 03/20/12 08:30 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: billy p]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 768
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: billy p
Originally Posted By: casey01
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
Sounds like he believes anything anybody says, as long as it's not from Axiom.


Unfortunately, the moment Audioholics announced this speaker, this same rant between this clown and the other (TLS Guy), the greatest speaker experts of our time, started. I didn't know one could offer such valuable, magical expertise from just looking at a picture. It certainly is quite a unique ability, heretofore, unheard of in the CE business. In either case, they obviously have absolutely nothing else to do with their time.




I don't always agree with TLS Guy but he is a well versed individual regarding speaker design and is a doctor by profession. If you didn't agree with something he said and since you follow audioholics take it up with him there...don't come here and call him names!



Quite frankly, I follow Audioholics very infrequently, it was only after I was made aware of the announcement that I noticed it and immediately saw the comments. Regardless of TLS Guy's apparent profession and expertise, I would assume like any reasonably intelligent person who is interested in this subject, especially pertaining to a brand new product, we would reserve judgement until we saw and heard it, unfortunately, he chose to do quite otherwise. For that reason, I have no desire whatsoever to get in to a pi..ing contest with somebody like this because from what I see that is what it, unfortunately, and all too often turns out to be, especially on that particular forum(hence, the recent intervention and comments of concern from the principals at Audioholics about many of these kinds of posts under discussion).

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#370419 - 03/20/12 10:58 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
What the hell is going on with all the axiom haters lately?
I just read another post at AVS (yes, I know, imagine that?) where a dude was just asking opinions...then axiom gets slammed. Almost every freaking forum I visit I read negative posts about Axiom.

I just don't get it. I've been an audio hobbyist for many years and seems very few mfg's get bashed like this, seems like a virus.

For Christs sake, it's got me thinking about thoughts of getting different speakers. Geez...when one keeps hearing negative things over and over, I'm starting to get concerned.
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

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#370420 - 03/20/12 11:21 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Dduval]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7147
Loc: Canada
Follow the lemmings...
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#370421 - 03/20/12 11:27 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: fredk]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
Thanks for the advice Fred...
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

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#370422 - 03/20/12 11:29 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17791
Loc: NoVA
People don't like it when the status quo is challenged. Axiom does that quite publicly. I'm sure this forum probably doesn't help either as far as the haters go; we tend to be a rather no-nonsense bunch and that just sticks in the craw of people who just spent >$100 on a piece of wire.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#370424 - 03/21/12 12:19 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Dduval]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7147
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Dduval
Thanks for the advice Fred...

Sorry, its the first thing that came to mind. There is a lot of lemming like behavior on Audioholics/AVS. You get a few good posters, but mostly a lot of people repeating what they have read without much thought to what it really means.

I have good speakers. I don't much care what the lemmings think.
AV123 was a real doozie of a lemming cliff. Lots of lemming snacks at the bottom of that one. Well, if you're a vulture.


Edited by fredk (03/21/12 12:19 AM)
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#370425 - 03/21/12 12:34 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Lampshade Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: Holbrook, MA
It might be a good idea to try something different. Maybe you can borrow a pair or do a 30 day trial or something. Then listen to the Axioms again. See what you like better.

My personal journey involves many speakers. I am a little embarrassed at what I have spent over the years. I love my 80s and 3's. I wish I had bought them first...Almost. I spent a lot, but at least I have personal experience with many speakers instead of just reading about many speakers. I never have any doubt about how good my speakers are and I just ignore people who say rotten things.

I remember the day I went to Bob's house to hear Axioms for the first time, M60s. I was expecting pretty good but I sat there astonished. I was listening to decades worth of experience of a man with a vision of what a loudspeaker should be.

There is a motto of another talented speaker maker who crafted the one pair of speakers that I wish I had kept. He uses very humble drivers but his speakers are incredible. His motto is that it is not the parts that make a great speaker. It is how the parts work together.

good luck
_________________________
M3 and Manley Stingray
M80 and Pioneer SC 55

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#370429 - 03/21/12 03:42 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
I reluctantly post this as I would rather not extend this thread any longer; however, in order to close this off, I came across this post from 'gtpsuper24' on 06-09-11 at 10:19AM on AVS:

Whats with all the negativity? If your not a Axiom owner or never have been or never plan to be why bother posting? I've been a Axiom owner since 2008 and couldn't be happier with my purchase and I even plan on upgrading to M80s and the VP180. This discussion comes up about once a year or so, so why is it that the same people go on this crusade against Axiom? During get togethers never once has any one complained about the sound of my Axioms or any thing similar. I feel many people have been happy with their Axiom puchase I never see them for sale used on sites like ebay, audiogon, or avs classifieds. Hopefully Axiom has another great 30years ahead.

If this is from our beloved 'gtpsuper' (I believe that it might be unless someone else has hijacked his username), his recent trolling posts here are most puzzling. This whole thing seems quite bizarre to me...

Tom
Comox, BC

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#370449 - 03/21/12 09:31 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17791
Loc: NoVA
Yup, I've quoted that before. He made a similar post here. He seems to have changed his mind. Hey. Whatever. That's cool, just bugger off and leave us alone in our delusion.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#370451 - 03/21/12 09:36 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I like when the anti Axiom folks link to reviews of other speakers to prove a point but never seem to see the same positive reviews on the same sites for an Axiom product.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#370471 - 03/21/12 12:15 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Dduval]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: Dduval
What the hell is going on with all the axiom haters lately?
I just read another post at AVS (yes, I know, imagine that?) where a dude was just asking opinions...then axiom gets slammed. Almost every freaking forum I visit I read negative posts about Axiom.

I just don't get it. I've been an audio hobbyist for many years and seems very few mfg's get bashed like this, seems like a virus.

For Christs sake, it's got me thinking about thoughts of getting different speakers. Geez...when one keeps hearing negative things over and over, I'm starting to get concerned.



I dont understand the copious amounts of people coming out of the wood work to share negative comments either. From what i have read, most of the people posting on other forums have no direct experience with Axiom as a company, or their products, some do but most do not...

Personally as an audio enthusiast i have Axiom speakers as well as B&W's... Honestly, both brands sound about the same to me, they both sound good while the frequency response is different between them since they are for difference purposes (bedroom/family room)... I would say the fit and finish of the B&W's is nicer... But, comparing these two brands is not exactly fair due to the extreme price difference between them, the B&W's better have a wonderful finish for the price!!. Axiom seems to concentrate more on value, and personally i have NEVER been unhappy with a speaker that i have bought from Axiom.

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#370473 - 03/21/12 12:25 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
That's a fair assessment Dak.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#370504 - 03/21/12 02:51 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
Whilst I was reading the copious anti-Axiom venom elsewhere in that thread, I came across a post by an 'expert' who stated that he changed out a cable or speaker wire (or whatever) in his friend's audio system. The results were akin to a complete amplifier upgrade. Quite unbelievable to me. There is a plethora of placebo effect out there methinks. I take enough pills daily - I don't need placebos.

Over my many years as an audio/video enthusiast (but not an audiophile), I've come to really appreciate all of the equipment that manufacturers such as Marantz, Sony, Denon, Axiom & Velodyne (amongst others) have provided to me - names that make many purist snobs cringe. These components have given me countless hours of pleasurable listening & viewing over the decades. I am particularly impressed with Axiom's philosophy of using pragmatic & practical methods (often quite different from the rest of the industry) of engineering fine sound into their products at an affordable price. That is most important to me now that I'm an aging pensioner - it keeps me in the game.

I fear for Ascend Acoustics when the herd turns on them down the road when it decides that something is amiss in their products.

I guess now that I'm going to branded as an Axiom fanboy. Oh well, there are worse things...

Tom
Comox, BC

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#370505 - 03/21/12 03:06 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5914
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
He could have replaced a faulty wire, like maybe it was down to 1 strand in some particular spot. (Just thinking out loud.... where is that delete button when you need one.)


Edited by CatBrat (03/21/12 03:09 PM)

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#370519 - 03/21/12 04:26 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: exlabdriver]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
[quote=exlabdriver
Over my many years as an audio/video enthusiast (but not an audiophile), I've come to really appreciate all of the equipment that manufacturers such as Marantz, Sony, Denon, Axiom & Velodyne (amongst others) have provided to me - names that make many purist snobs cringe. These components have given me countless hours of pleasurable listening & viewing over the decades. [/quote]

Tom, in my "Axiom system" i am using a Krell processor, as well as Krell amps... I recently asked Alan for some advice... When i "upgraded" to the Krell processor from a NAD, i could not hear any difference..!.. keep in mind, i was taking out a 1,500$ processor and replacing it with a 9,500$(i paid 2k$ pre-owned) unit!!... Anyhow, my next processor will be an integra i think. More "value", The integra has the 1 option that i DID hear a difference in, XLR connections to the amp... The integra also has Soooo many things that the Krell does not... If NAD had a model with XLR's then i would buy another NAD...

Also, i have some RCA/XLR cables that i paid 100$ each for, while i other's that are about 10$ or so a cable... I can't "hear" the difference between the 100$ cable, or the 10$ cable.... it is not WOW, that cable is soo much better!!...

Yeah,yeah, i know some people around here say "those people who pay 100$ a cable", but they looked neat and i figured i would try them wink


With all that being said, i could be completely tone deaf... However, the V.A. did say my hearing is "acceptable" across all frequency ranges..... so i do have "some" scientific proof i can hear!.... hahahah.


Edited by dakkon (03/21/12 04:26 PM)

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#370532 - 03/21/12 06:26 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
Cat:

I found the posts that I was talking about. Excerpts follow:

*I was over at a friends house about a year ago on an audio related trip. I think he was using Blue Jeans speaker cables at the time. I swapped them out for one of Electra Cables cheaper speaker cables and he just about fell over. It was like upgrading his amp or something.

**I'd have so much fun with you.... I could change one power cable on my system for a stock power cable and you'd fall over. It would burst everything you ever believed in.

From what I gather reading the above, there were no problems with the friend's wires.

Sorry, I just don't buy what is being stated there as I don't fall over easily. For me, unless they are defective, proper cables/wires just do not make huge, dramatic sonic differences as espoused above. I'm just too cynical & pragmatic I guess; however, these virtues make it far easier on the wallet...

Tom
Comox, BC

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#370542 - 03/21/12 07:23 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: exlabdriver]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
I have a few expensive cables and can tell you for a fact that they DO make a difference. Especially on the source player,(i have an Oppo)it is there.

Try one if you don't believe me, and if you don't agree "bill me" I could use a couple more. smile
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#370551 - 03/21/12 09:31 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: SBrown]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10406
Shawn, no you can't tell us that as a "fact". Carefully controlled blind listening tests have failed to support claims about magic cables. It's unlikely that you have contrary data, personal or otherwise.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#370557 - 03/21/12 10:27 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
These are my opinions that not worth anything to those who don't agree.

For me, an audio/video RCA type cable simply shunts electrons from one component to another & provides grounding & shielding from RFI. No more, no less as long as the cables are not defective.

Speaker wire simply passes electrons from the amp to the speakers. As long as they are of an adequate gauge for the length of the run & they aren't subject to RFI along the way, then they will work most satisfactorily.

I have a large supply of normal grade RCA cables so I don't expect to be purchasing fancy expensive ones soon. I just don't believe that I'll hear a difference.

I use inexpensive 12 GA generic speaker wire to my M22s & a fairly long run of 16 GA lamp wire to my rear QS4s (largely due to trying to fit them under my baseboards). My audio system also uses similar long runs of 16 GA under the baseboards with no detrimental effects that I can determine.

Everything in both systems works just fine. The electrons get to where they are supposed to & my systems are dead quiet indicating that RFI is not a problem here. All of my Axioms & Velodynes sing nicely with the way that they are connected.

Works for me.

Tom
Comox, BC

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#370564 - 03/22/12 12:16 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: SBrown]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: SBrown
I have a few expensive cables and can tell you for a fact that they DO make a difference. Especially on the source player,(i have an Oppo)it is there.

Try one if you don't believe me, and if you don't agree "bill me" I could use a couple more. smile



Define "expensive" i have these kimber cables
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KKHE0144

130$ each....

These are the XLR cables i have
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KKHEBAL
160$ each...

My memory was slightly off, i knew they were a buck something...


I also have a LOT of these..
http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_37.html
30$ each...

Personally, i can not tell the difference between the 130$ cable, or the 30$ cable.... I am also NOT going to go to the 500-1,000$ cables, if i cant hear a difference... Maybe your buying the 1,000$ cables, and they do make difference over the 30$ cable? Personally, i would rather invest the other 970$.... But that is just me... I would like to be able to retire early laugh

Also, SBrown.. I am not trying to start a pissing contest, just trying to clarify and quantify "expensive," to me 130-160$ea IS expensive.... especially when you have to buy many of them, due to no HDMI in ones system.



Edited by dakkon (03/22/12 12:18 AM)
Edit Reason: missing comma... :~)

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#370572 - 03/22/12 01:27 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: dakkon]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
I don't know about you guys but I can tell....let's just leave it at that! I know, I know...
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#370574 - 03/22/12 01:33 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
To each his own, i am not going to tell you that "you" can not hear a difference.. no one can tell someone else what they can and can not hear...


This is one of those topics that can go on for ever if so chosen...


Edited by dakkon (03/22/12 01:33 AM)

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#370579 - 03/22/12 03:44 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
Unfortunately the unrelenting Axiom bashing at Audioholics is again so severe that Gene had to tell the 'experts' over there to knock it off (page 8 of the thread).

My gawd there are some really fanatical, nasty characters over there. This stuff is almost a religion to them...

Tom
Comox, BC

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#370582 - 03/22/12 07:42 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: exlabdriver]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Why do some you feel compelled to report back what is going on over there. I am sure enough of us follow various forums and come up to speed with what is being said or discussed in cyperspace. TLS put his foot in his mouth again and was quickly put in his place....it's not the first or the last time he'll accomplish that feat!

Like I mentioned before take it up with him there and call him out...I'm sure you'll get some support there as well.

This thread is so far off it's not even discussing the original topic at hand!


Edited by billy p (03/22/12 07:57 AM)

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#370586 - 03/22/12 09:18 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Lampshade Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1165
Loc: Holbrook, MA
Happy Birthday.

Good idea. Leave it over there.
_________________________
M3 and Manley Stingray
M80 and Pioneer SC 55

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#370613 - 03/22/12 12:38 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
I put my order in for Sierra Towers! Woohoo!

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#370614 - 03/22/12 12:42 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: billy p]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: billy p

This thread is so far off it's not even discussing the original topic at hand!


Yep, that is what happens here when people just shoot the (----).. Most topics here only stay "on topic" for about the first page or 2.. Depending on who is contributing.... But then again, that's what makes this environment a good distraction. If you have a question you can most likely get an answer... Maybe 2 different ones depending on if me and John are contributing wink .


If you look at the new speaker thread, even that one has gone off topic...

We are mainly a bunch of guys with ADD, who enjoy audio and shooting the (----)......

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#370618 - 03/22/12 12:50 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: JBall]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
Originally Posted By: JBall
I put my order in for Sierra Towers! Woohoo!


Congrats and enjoy. I wouldn't mind hearing them myself.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#370628 - 03/22/12 02:21 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
billy:

I'm so sorry - human nature I guess. Besides, I thought that some people here might want to wander over there to see what is going on & to read your fine contributions over there as well.

JB: Kudos on your new purchase. I'm sure that you have made the right choice for you as the Sierras seem to be a fine product from what I've read.

If we could just convince gtp to do something similar so that he can be happy again as well.

Yes, we are way off topic; however, after page 3, it is only natural I guess...

Sincerely,

Tom
Comox, BC

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#370629 - 03/22/12 02:36 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
avjunkee Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 110
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
Sorry would this be better for you?

OMG OMG OMG Axiom just made the most super duper awesomeness speaker ever, not even speakers costing gazillion dollars can match these.


I would not be so quick to judge, because that sounds suspiciously similar to the Ascend website:

"...compact floorstanding loudspeaker with performance that rivals and even surpasses some of the most highly regarded loudspeakers at any price."

I suppose you're not a fan of Ascend either...
_________________________
M80s, VP180, QS8s, EP800 v3

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#370630 - 03/22/12 02:50 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
I was being sarcastic LOL. I think I hurt someones feelings so I though I would cheer them up.

exlab, i've replaced majority of my Axioms with Arx speakers. I'm not a snob that thinks products that cost more are better, actually I picked up the Arx A1 bookshelfs and A2 center for just a few dollars more than the VP150 cost me 3-4yrs ago. On top of being cheaper they also include as standard option die-cast frame aluminium high excursion woofers. I would say that the A1s are a cross between the M3 and the M22s the bass and "fullness" of the M3 with the midrange detail of the M22s, just not a sensitive as the M22s.

They sound really good using Axiom speaker wire with Axiom terimals. But I myself never heard or believed in more expensive wire is better or rcas or hdmi.

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#370632 - 03/22/12 03:09 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: exlabdriver]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
billy:

I'm so sorry - human nature I guess. Besides, I thought that some people here might want to wander over there to see what is going on & to read your fine contributions over there as well.

JB: Kudos on your new purchase. I'm sure that you have made the right choice for you as the Sierras seem to be a fine product from what I've read.

If we could just convince gtp to do something similar so that he can be happy again as well.

Yes, we are way off topic; however, after page 3, it is only natural I guess...

Sincerely,

Tom
Comox, BC




Indeed...human nautre to be sure...because even at audioholics where I spend most of my time things sometimes get monotonous and need some levity...kinda like what can occur here. But...make no mistake I still use/own and enjoy my Axioms...I only got involved because of comments made eariler by another member regarding the Ascend Towers and thought to set the record straight.

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#370634 - 03/22/12 03:40 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
I don't know that you "set the record straight". I can see you love your speakers and rightfully so, I'm sure they sound great but unless you have heard them M80s in a side by side comparison there no way to set anyone/anything straight.

Just like mine, it's your opinion.

BTW Happy Birthday.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#370638 - 03/22/12 03:53 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Until you put the M80s in a side by side comparison theres no way to know if the M80s are really as good as you say either.

One thing I find funny is that you die hard Axiom fans think its ok to say that your M80s or what ever model you have is better than all those other speakers, But as soon as someone else says this brand X is better than Axiom thats when we always hear "If you didn't do it blind theres no way to know for sure" Or "you gotta do side by side comparison".

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#370640 - 03/22/12 03:55 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6722
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
Until you put the M80s in a side by side comparison theres no way to know if the M80s are really as good as you say either.


Very true
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#370642 - 03/22/12 03:57 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Wid]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Originally Posted By: Wid
I don't know that you "set the record straight". I can see you love your speakers and rightfully so, I'm sure they sound great but unless you have heard them M80s in a side by side comparison there no way to set anyone/anything straight.

Just like mine, it's your opinion.

BTW Happy Birthday.


No I have not heard the Axiom Towers but the 22's are a very good benchmark for others to compare against. Based on what I hear in my home the NrT is much more fluid and dynamic vs. the Axiom twet and the Sierra mid range has amazing detail and resolution. I use the 22's along with my sub but even with the sub the Towers are still better. BTW...I had the Sierra 1 for about 6 months and compared them with my 22's a more apples to apples comparison with about the same results....just my sujective and un biased opinion....

And thanks for the BD wish....Bill

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#370646 - 03/22/12 04:24 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Wid]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: Wid
I don't know that you "set the record straight". I can see you love your speakers and rightfully so, I'm sure they sound great but unless you have heard them M80s in a side by side comparison there no way to set anyone/anything straight.

Just like mine, it's your opinion.

BTW Happy Birthday.


I can comfortably tell you that I directly compared my Axiom M60v3s side by side and level matched to a pair of Sierra Towers and there was simply no comparison. The midrange on the Sierra towers was so much clearer and neutral sounding. I always felt the mids on the M60s were too bass heavy. As you crank the volume up, the Sierra's just sang while the Axioms just sounded jumbled together. The Axioms do have a tad more bass but the bass is not as defined or snappy. The highs on the Sierra towers also sound more airy and the sound is just more spacious overall.

I realize the Sierra towers are more money, but IMO worth the added expense and after hearing them, I can never go back to my Axioms. Sorry guys.


Edited by JBall (03/22/12 04:27 PM)

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#370647 - 03/22/12 04:31 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3917
Loc: Up yonder
Price is relative and not the determining factor in how well a speaker sounds. I have a set of $5000 msrp speakers (Opus 2-2's) that I have listened to in the same room, with the same electronics and wires as my M80ti's. They sound different, but not any 'better'. They both sound great to me, and both sound better than the other depending on what I'm listening to, or my mood for that matter.

This is really a stupid argument. Just get what sounds good to you, whatever makes you happy, blah blah and all that BS. If you don't like the way other speaker sounds, that's your choice, your preference, but that's all it is. To start cutting another one down or criticizing the company is simply rude and a clear definition of a person's character.

At least Axiom has a 30 day, in your home trial period. If you buy them and don't like what you hear, send them back, no questions asked. Anyone who buys them, keeps them, then comes back to bitch about them later is not someone worth any effort whatsoever to pay any attention to.
_________________________


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#370648 - 03/22/12 04:41 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: michael_d]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: michael_d
Price is relative and not the determining factor in how well a speaker sounds. I have a set of $5000 msrp speakers (Opus 2-2's) that I have listened to in the same room, with the same electronics and wires as my M80ti's. They sound different, but not any 'better'. They both sound great to me, and both sound better than the other depending on what I'm listening to, or my mood for that matter.

This is really a stupid argument. Just get what sounds good to you, whatever makes you happy, blah blah and all that BS. If you don't like the way other speaker sounds, that's your choice, your preference, but that's all it is. To start cutting another one down or criticizing the company is simply rude and a clear definition of a person's character.

At least Axiom has a 30 day, in your home trial period. If you buy them and don't like what you hear, send them back, no questions asked. Anyone who buys them, keeps them, then comes back to bitch about them later is not someone worth any effort whatsoever to pay any attention to.


I agree buy what you like. Long term opinions is much more valuable than, someone whos had a pair of speakers for a week and gives a review. Speakers are and investment, its good to know peoples opinions of products, speakers, appliances, cars, computers, ect... Your all for people who have postive opinions only. If you don't like someones opinion and you think this arguement is stupid, nothing is stopping you from going back to the shoutbox or participating in another thread.

We're all apart of the audio community and have a passion for this hobby, no reason to get offended if someone doesn't like what you like, and I sure as hell don't get offended that you like Axiom.

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#370649 - 03/22/12 04:42 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: michael_d]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: michael_d
Price is relative and not the determining factor in how well a speaker sounds. I have a set of $5000 msrp speakers (Opus 2-2's) that I have listened to in the same room, with the same electronics and wires as my M80ti's. They sound different, but not any 'better'. They both sound great to me, and both sound better than the other depending on what I'm listening to, or my mood for that matter.

This is really a stupid argument. Just get what sounds good to you, whatever makes you happy, blah blah and all that BS. If you don't like the way other speaker sounds, that's your choice, your preference, but that's all it is. To start cutting another one down or criticizing the company is simply rude and a clear definition of a person's character.

At least Axiom has a 30 day, in your home trial period. If you buy them and don't like what you hear, send them back, no questions asked. Anyone who buys them, keeps them, then comes back to bitch about them later is not someone worth any effort whatsoever to pay any attention to.


I did like the Axioms when I first got them b/c I had nothing else to compare them to. I bought them based on the positive reviews. Over time, I started noticing things I didn't like. So I began demoing other speakers some good and some bad but I realized I was missing something.

I wish I found me some critical opinions prior, to make a better purchasing decision. You can't trust any magazine reviews b/c reviewers seem to love everything they review. I guess they don't want to piss off their advertisers. This is why opinions from real users matter the most but you want to squash that b/c my opinion doesn't agree with yours.

I am not a fanboy for any brand. I like what is good and at the moment I like what I hear from Ascend Acoustics. In fact, I liked it so much I ordered a pair. Perhaps in a few years my tastes will evolve beyond them if I find something better.

I think its really abnormal the way some folks here elevate the Axiom brand to the holly grail of loudspeakers. They are CLEARLY NOT from my experiences.


Edited by JBall (03/22/12 04:44 PM)

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#370651 - 03/22/12 04:54 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
VP150 is what soured my opinion of Axiom. It just wore on me over the months and years. Finally I just gave up trying to make it sound better. Started researching and demoing for months to find something better and noticed just about any center I tried outperformed the Axiom VP150 hands down.

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#370653 - 03/22/12 04:56 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
Originally Posted By: JBall
I realize the Sierra towers are more money, but IMO worth the added expense and after hearing them, I can never go back to my Axioms. Sorry guys.


No need to be sorry.

You did what people SHOULD do...you listened to both and made your preference. There's nothing wrong with that.

I've been here since 1994, and I can honestly say that I've seen very, very few times when someone who has done a comparison and chose a competitive product ended up getting slammed for it.

What IS problematic is when someone comes here and says "Axioms suck because they're not braced the same as XX brand" or "Axioms' philosophy is all wrong because this other speaker company's is....." or "Aluminum tweeters must be bad" or "This speaker MUST have lobing", even though they personally have no way to measure such things. Or, more specifically in this case, "this new speaker must be bad so let's start trashing it" even though none of us have heard it. And...be clear... that doesn't automatically mean that I think the new speaker is wonderful... as I haven't heard it either. But it doesn't make me a fanboy to say "Let's give the new speaker the benefit of the doubt until we've heard it".

If you go to a Chevy Forum and tell everyone there that Fords are better, OF COURSE you're treading on thin ice. It can be done, but diplomatically. Not going in with guns blazing, telling everyone there that they're stupid and wrong. We like our Axioms or we wouldn't be here.

No one ever says that other speakers can't be better, Axioms are just a good value in comparison to many other brands. Same with Ascend.

Finally, no one has the same preferences, budget, room restrictions & aesthetic requirements. I firmly believe that there are NO "best" speakers. Some like their sound bass-heavy, some warm, some bright, some neutral, some like their speakers tall, some built in to their walls, some are fine saving some money with vinyl finish, others want lacquered piano-black...whatever. And if I think your speaker sounds bass heavy and you like it just fine, who am I to say that I'm right...or that IN YOUR ROOM that speaker DOESN'T sound better?

I'm a believer in measurements to achieve linear playback as the engineer's intended. But if someone finds a different sound more pleasing to them, more power to them. That's what this hobby is all about.

Even two speakers that show specs as 38Hz-20KHz +/- 3dB will likely sound very different because of where their "pluses and minuses" fall.

This IS just a hobby. There's no need for threads to go off like this one did.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#370659 - 03/22/12 05:54 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1272
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Mark, exactly what i had in mind. Bravo!

The worst are, as you say, those who've never heard a speaker (or whatever), and say they know everything about it and nothing will change their mind.

same mentality as religious fanatics (ignoramus)...they have caused wars for thousands of years because of this kind of behavior.

what everyone should do to counteract this is by not answering the BS;
and the "golden ear" experts should study human nature/psychology a little.
_________________________
See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#370665 - 03/22/12 06:08 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Quote:
What IS problematic is when someone comes here and says "Axioms suck because they're not braced the same as XX brand" or "Axioms' philosophy is all wrong because this other speaker company's is....." or "Aluminum tweeters must be bad" or "This speaker MUST have lobing", even though they personally have no way to measure such things. Or, more specifically in this case, "this new speaker must be bad so let's start trashing it" even though none of us have heard it. And...be clear... that doesn't automatically mean that I think the new speaker is wonderful... as I haven't heard it either. But it doesn't make me a fanboy to say "Let's give the new speaker the benefit of the doubt until we've heard it".


Your remarks are true but I never did say Axiom speakers suck. They just aren't up to the level pro reviewers and some fanboys claim them to be.

Also, part of the reason I chose the Ascends was their full disclosure of measurements and pictures of the parts used, something Axiom doesn't do. I know what I am getting with Ascends where as Axiom is just hearsay.


Edited by JBall (03/22/12 06:09 PM)

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#370666 - 03/22/12 06:16 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
JBall, my post was not directed towards you, though I used your example of doing an actual speaker comparison as a "jumping off point".

I hope you have many happy listening sessions with your Ascends!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#370667 - 03/22/12 06:34 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
JBall, my post was not directed towards you, though I used your example of doing an actual speaker comparison as a "jumping off point".

I hope you have many happy listening sessions with your Ascends!


Yeah 3 months ago I should have used a different phrase than "sucks for the price"

My meaning of that phrase is the same as
Not a great bang for the buck
Doesn't perform to other products in the same price points

Which its not only me saying that but also some really die hard Axiom fans say the same thing.

We looked at the EP600 measurements done awhile and the re done measurements and compared it to the new SVS PB12 NSD an while they were fairly close above 40hrz the SVS outshined the EP600 below 40hrz. Its kind of sad in my eyes that a subwoofer costing $759.00 can outdo an $1870 subwoofer. Plus both offer DSP, and powerful digital amps.

Axiom speakers somewhat of a good bang for the buck, the subwoofer not so much.

Its why these Axiom subwoofer thread pop up all the time is the HUGE price gaps between Axiom subs and the competition. As of right now Axiom can't match the other ID brands like SVS, HSU, Rythmik, and eD.

They don't suck performance wise, they just haven't kept up with the competition. SVS, HSU, Rythmik keep innovating bring new updated better performing products on a regualar basis.

And when Gene corrected me on his forum that Axiom subwoofers don't suck, he then went on to say that, they just haven't kept up and they perform well but its 2003-2004 performance not 2012. The competition has just improved so much that if you stand idle to long you get left behind.


Edited by gtpsuper (03/22/12 06:39 PM)

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#370668 - 03/22/12 06:39 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3917
Loc: Up yonder
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
Originally Posted By: michael_d
Price is relative and not the determining factor in how well a speaker sounds. I have a set of $5000 msrp speakers (Opus 2-2's) that I have listened to in the same room, with the same electronics and wires as my M80ti's. They sound different, but not any 'better'. They both sound great to me, and both sound better than the other depending on what I'm listening to, or my mood for that matter.

This is really a stupid argument. Just get what sounds good to you, whatever makes you happy, blah blah and all that BS. If you don't like the way other speaker sounds, that's your choice, your preference, but that's all it is. To start cutting another one down or criticizing the company is simply rude and a clear definition of a person's character.

At least Axiom has a 30 day, in your home trial period. If you buy them and don't like what you hear, send them back, no questions asked. Anyone who buys them, keeps them, then comes back to bitch about them later is not someone worth any effort whatsoever to pay any attention to.


I agree buy what you like. Long term opinions is much more valuable than, someone whos had a pair of speakers for a week and gives a review. Speakers are and investment, its good to know peoples opinions of products, speakers, appliances, cars, computers, ect... Your all for people who have postive opinions only. If you don't like someones opinion and you think this arguement is stupid, nothing is stopping you from going back to the shoutbox or participating in another thread.

We're all apart of the audio community and have a passion for this hobby, no reason to get offended if someone doesn't like what you like, and I sure as hell don't get offended that you like Axiom.


I said the argument over ‘which speaker is better’ is stupid, not opinions or preferences. It is stupid to argue over such nonsense. Better is no different than quality. There is no real definition to either. They are preferences influenced by a multitude of factors that are unique to the individual and that indivual’s life experiences, predjudces and personal or professional bias. There is no universal standard for either, unless you happen to work for the nuclear industry…
_________________________


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#370671 - 03/22/12 07:16 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1272
Loc: Quebec, Canada
can anyone tell me which car is the best one?

and the answer is:
_________________________
See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#370672 - 03/22/12 07:17 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: billy p]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7147
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: billy p

No I have not heard the Axiom Towers but the 22's are a very good benchmark for others to compare against. Based on what I hear in my home the NrT is much more fluid and dynamic vs. the Axiom twet and the Sierra mid range has amazing detail and resolution. I use the 22's along with my sub but even with the sub the Towers are still better. BTW...I had the Sierra 1 for about 6 months and compared them with my 22's a more apples to apples comparison with about the same results....just my sujective and un biased opinion....

And thanks for the BD wish....Bill

Billy, given that you are comparing an in/on wall 22 (a compromise speaker) to a full blown tower, the tower should sound better.

There are some comparisons of the W22 to M22 around here, and the M22 is a better performer. From memory, the W22 sounded 'thinner' in some respects.

I'd love to give those Ascends a listen some time, but I hardly ever head out your way.

BTW, the great thing about this hobby is that there seem to be a LOT of smaller companies out there building a good product. This market seems to have resisted the consolidation that often goes on in mature markets.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#370678 - 03/22/12 08:16 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
ghost271 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 75
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
VP150 is what soured my opinion of Axiom. It just wore on me over the months and years. Finally I just gave up trying to make it sound better. Started researching and demoing for months to find something better and noticed just about any center I tried outperformed the Axiom VP150 hands down.


I too was unimpressed with the 150....at first. After making adjustments in placement, AVR settings and most importantly moving my sub to the front, it now sounds amazing. The off axis response isnt an issue in my current set up. Once we move to a larger room i'll look at buying a Klipsch RC64,Paradigm Signature C5, or 180.
_________________________
Sanyo Z5 HD Projector w/100" screen
Yamaha RXV-663,BD30,HD-A30
Toshiba 55SV670U
M60s
VP150
QS8s

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#370679 - 03/22/12 08:16 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
FireGuy Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 309
Loc: Buffalo, New York
This is why I love my Axioms and this forum.
_________________________
FireGuy
M22V3/M3ti/M2V3/Omega Super 5/Aperion 5C/OutlawLFM1+Sub/Denon AVR1906/YamDVDC750/AS AMP110

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#370683 - 03/22/12 09:10 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
onn Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 912
Loc: Edmonton Alberta
Great post Mark!
_________________________
My system

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#370684 - 03/22/12 09:36 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: ghost271]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
Quote:
Once we move to a larger room i'll look at buying a Klipsch RC64,Paradigm Signature C5, or 180.

Why not a VP160 to match your M60s?
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#370686 - 03/22/12 09:50 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
ghost271 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 75
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Quote:
Once we move to a larger room i'll look at buying a Klipsch RC64,Paradigm Signature C5, or 180.

Why not a VP160 to match your M60s?


I may do that as well but I want the biggest MoFo I can get, and will likely upgrade to the M80s.
_________________________
Sanyo Z5 HD Projector w/100" screen
Yamaha RXV-663,BD30,HD-A30
Toshiba 55SV670U
M60s
VP150
QS8s

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#370687 - 03/22/12 10:14 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: fredk]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: billy p

No I have not heard the Axiom Towers but the 22's are a very good benchmark for others to compare against. Based on what I hear in my home the NrT is much more fluid and dynamic vs. the Axiom twet and the Sierra mid range has amazing detail and resolution. I use the 22's along with my sub but even with the sub the Towers are still better. BTW...I had the Sierra 1 for about 6 months and compared them with my 22's a more apples to apples comparison with about the same results....just my sujective and un biased opinion....

And thanks for the BD wish....Bill

Billy, given that you are comparing an in/on wall 22 (a compromise speaker) to a full blown tower, the tower should sound better.

There are some comparisons of the W22 to M22 around here, and the M22 is a better performer. From memory, the W22 sounded 'thinner' in some respects.

I'd love to give those Ascends a listen some time, but I hardly ever head out your way.

BTW, the great thing about this hobby is that there seem to be a LOT of smaller companies out there building a good product. This market seems to have resisted the consolidation that often goes on in mature markets.


You'd be more than welcomed to come over if your ever up this way...I have cold beer in the fridge but what I like best about this hobby is meeting new people in GTG and hearing other peoples rigs... smile

I wouldn't sell the w22's short as they replaced my Energy RC30's and I really like my Rc's at the time.

Regards, Bill

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#370695 - 03/22/12 10:58 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: billy p]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7147
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: billy p
Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: billy p

No I have not heard the Axiom Towers but the 22's are a very good benchmark for others to compare against. Based on what I hear in my home the NrT is much more fluid and dynamic vs. the Axiom twet and the Sierra mid range has amazing detail and resolution. I use the 22's along with my sub but even with the sub the Towers are still better. BTW...I had the Sierra 1 for about 6 months and compared them with my 22's a more apples to apples comparison with about the same results....just my sujective and un biased opinion....

And thanks for the BD wish....Bill

Billy, given that you are comparing an in/on wall 22 (a compromise speaker) to a full blown tower, the tower should sound better.

There are some comparisons of the W22 to M22 around here, and the M22 is a better performer. From memory, the W22 sounded 'thinner' in some respects.

I'd love to give those Ascends a listen some time, but I hardly ever head out your way.

BTW, the great thing about this hobby is that there seem to be a LOT of smaller companies out there building a good product. This market seems to have resisted the consolidation that often goes on in mature markets.


You'd be more than welcomed to come over if your ever up this way...I have cold beer in the fridge but what I like best about this hobby is meeting new people in GTG and hearing other peoples rigs... smile

I wouldn't sell the w22's short as they replaced my Energy RC30's and I really like my Rc's at the time.

Regards, Bill

Thanks for the invite. I hope to be able to take you up on that some time.

I'm not selling the W22 short. It is a great speaker for a particular application, but it is represent a design compromise that affects sound quality.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#370746 - 03/23/12 11:34 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Socketman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1205
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Buying a speaker is one of the hardest purchases to make. Over a period of 30 years i have moved a great number of times.During those 30 yrs ihad the same speakers and they did not sound the same every single time i moved. No matter where or how you auditon a speaker when you get it home it is not going to sound the same.Before i ever give up on a set of speakers i will do a lot of room treatment first.

JBall please share your experience once you get your new speakers home.I do not have a golden ear and i am always interested to hear direct comparisons. And yeah dont be sorry, a freind of mine has paradigms and he raved about them,yet i felt they were nothing special. To each is own i say.
_________________________
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
I blame my terseness on my keyboard. smile

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#370757 - 03/23/12 01:03 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: J. B.]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4032
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Originally Posted By: J. B.
can anyone tell me which car is the best one?

and the answer is:


A wheelchair accessible van. I don't recommend a comparison....Take my empirical affirmation to the bank!
_________________________
Does a dyslexic atheist not believe in dog?

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#370758 - 03/23/12 01:14 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Socketman]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Quote:
Buying a speaker is one of the hardest purchases to make. Over a period of 30 years i have moved a great number of times.During those 30 yrs ihad the same speakers and they did not sound the same every single time i moved. No matter where or how you auditon a speaker when you get it home it is not going to sound the same.Before i ever give up on a set of speakers i will do a lot of room treatment first.

JBall please share your experience once you get your new speakers home.I do not have a golden ear and i am always interested to hear direct comparisons. And yeah dont be sorry, a freind of mine has paradigms and he raved about them,yet i felt they were nothing special. To each is own i say.


Thanks and sorry to those Axiom owners I have offended with my rants. My neighbor dropped by today and listened to my M60s and loved them. I have cash in hand from him to buy them and just sitting patiently to get my Sierra towers now. I'm not ordering the center channel till I am sure I'm keeping the new towers.


Edited by JBall (03/23/12 01:16 PM)

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#370759 - 03/23/12 01:38 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: JBall]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
I am glad you found a new owner for the m60's. When I ordered my axiom and ascends last summer I needed to sell my Energies to fund my new speaker purchases...I could not bare to stick them in the basement...since I already had 2 other sets of speakers there...lol. The guy who bought them paid 600.00 (~50% less of what I paid) and was really exxcited with his new speakers...I was glad they found a new home and can be enjoyed.

I'm pretty sure you'll love the new towers....I do... smile

Regards, Bill

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#370760 - 03/23/12 02:12 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8294
Loc: Tacoma
Those Ascend towers look like they would be wonderful speakers, and the company has certainly earned a very good reputation.

I always like hearing stories about what people enjoy.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#370772 - 03/23/12 05:37 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: J. B.]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1272
Loc: Quebec, Canada
Originally Posted By: J. B.
can anyone tell me which car is the best one?

and the answer is:


(Or: which speaker is the best one?)

my answer: no car is the best one.
it always depends on a lot of things: best for what?
"best for everything" does not exist. It's always compromises, compromises...


Edited by J. B. (03/23/12 05:37 PM)
_________________________
See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#370778 - 03/23/12 07:49 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: J. B.]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7147
Loc: Canada
Best is easy. Best for me is what I have in my living-room (speakers) and driveway.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#370780 - 03/23/12 08:34 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: J. B.]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Originally Posted By: J. B.
can anyone tell me which car is the best one?

and the answer is:


the one you can actually afford without putting yourself into unnessary debt?

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#370785 - 03/23/12 09:18 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: dakkon]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7147
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: dakkon
Originally Posted By: J. B.
can anyone tell me which car is the best one?

and the answer is:


the one you can actually afford without putting yourself into unnessary debt?

In my household that goes without saying.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#370786 - 03/23/12 09:32 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
unfortunatly Fred, you are in the minority..... for the U.S. anyhow....

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#370792 - 03/23/12 10:24 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: dakkon]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7147
Loc: Canada
Same goes for Canada.

Double unfortunately, it does not pay to be a saver these days.

Government sl*ts and their forced low interest rates. Good for people holding lots of debt. Very bad for savers.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#371153 - 03/27/12 04:03 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
In case there was any doubt that 'gtpsuper' a troll, he has recently shown up in the Official Axiom Speakers Thread at Blue Ray.com as 'Inzer585' with the same old venomous diatribes that have become so tiresome. This misguided behavior is akin to stalking.

Since he is extolling the virtues of his new Arx speakers I searched them out on the net to see what they are all about as they are 'extraordinary' according to their website. Unfortunately, there is not much to find review-wise but I found this in a forum from a short lived Arx owner:

* I bought a pair of these about 3 weeks ago for our game room. We have a TV there and a 2 channel setup driven by an XPA-2 and a Yammi RX-V665 pre pro. At first I thought these speakers sounded pretty good but I just wrote TAI that I wanted to send them back.

* No uumph, no depth and higher volumes sound very thin and tinny. Just can't give me what I want. Ordered a pair of Axiom M3s. I know what those can do...

So, all this proves again that speaker sound is nothing but subjective to the listener/owner. AV is not a religion. The main difference here however, is that I could find nothing else from this poster where he has made it his life's work to incessantly bash Arx. He just got on with his life like any normal grownup would do (quite unlike our juvenile gtpsuper, or whoever he is...)

TAM

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#371171 - 03/27/12 10:03 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: exlabdriver]
billy p Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 177
Loc: Markham, Ont
^^^Are you sure about Inzer585 being the same guy...he uses thee same ID at other forums why change now? How about Pure Evils remarks found there and over at AVS as well...and who exactly is JCB someone questioned his idenity as a company shill and still no reply?

Yeah...its easy to sit there and cherry pick.... wink


Edited by billy p (03/27/12 10:07 AM)

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#371172 - 03/27/12 10:27 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
Hey exlaxdriver, i'm not inzer585. I'm not the only one who had Axioms and went with Arx. sempersyko on Audioholics went from Axiom to Arx. Arx is a small company, no advertisements and they don't PAY for good reviews and massive banners plastered all over the net like Axiom.

Look at this thread I posted, shows you what kind of quality Arx gives you for LESS than the Axioms.
http://www.theaudioinsider.com/forum/showthread.php?1605-Arx-s-Competiton

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#371173 - 03/27/12 10:33 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
Can you not just move on.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#371182 - 03/27/12 11:01 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
gtpsuper Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 80
I told someone over on AVS that I'd move on and I stopped posting on Axiom owner thread for 2 weeks, until sure enough you Axiom fanboys just gotta keep bringing my name up. How bout you tell exlax to stop bringing me with the gtsuper troll guy. Keep bringing my name up over and over I will keep responsing. Like I said on another thread, I'm done but you want to keep bringing my name up I'll keep responsing.

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#371184 - 03/27/12 11:05 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
Whatever.
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#371189 - 03/27/12 11:14 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 768
Loc: Toronto
Just what exactly does the word "responsing" mean?

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#371204 - 03/27/12 11:41 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: gtpsuper]
Spoiler Offline
aficionado

Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 680
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: gtpsuper
I told someone over on AVS that I'd move on and I stopped posting on Axiom owner thread for 2 weeks, until sure enough you Axiom fanboys just gotta keep bringing my name up. How bout you tell exlax to stop bringing me with the gtsuper troll guy. Keep bringing my name up over and over I will keep responsing. Like I said on another thread, I'm done but you want to keep bringing my name up I'll keep responsing.


Your immaturity is astounding. You continue to show it with each and every post, here and wherever else I've read your continual rants. You've been corrected on several boards on your false statements on Axiom quality, Axiom value, Axiom marketing, and whatever else Axiom you can bash. Yet, you continually try new and different ways to spew your negativity the company's way. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you really appear to have a 'crusade' approach to what apparently is an uncalled-for vendetta. You crave the attention. You claim to be done, and now you post AGAIN because someone mentioned your name. Juvenile behavior.

Please stop striving for the last word and GO AWAY as promised (in other words, no "responsing"). Oh, and waddya know. I didn't mention your name.


_________________________
Epic 80 / SVS PB13 Ultra
Denon 3805 / M2200 Outlaw Monos /
Sammy 55" LED

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#371206 - 03/27/12 12:06 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
stevej Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 76
Well said Joe. The thing is there are people on this forum that have other speakers than Axiom. I see you have an SVS sub. And I have seen others recommending other manufactures for certain applications without bashing Axiom. I have Axioms and would recommend them but obviously there are other products just as good and better.
This guy really seems to have an ax to grind against axiom for some reason.
Enough said I guess.

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#371211 - 03/27/12 12:20 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8294
Loc: Tacoma
I'm not above quoting Gandhi:

"Keep my word positive. Words become my behaviors. Keep my behaviors positive. Behaviors become my habits. Keep my habits positive. Habits become my values. Keep my values positive. Values become my destiny."

Point being, LOTS of people here have other speakers or other opinions, and they are roundly congratulated and applauded when they tell stories about the joy they experience.

It's a hobby. It's supposed to be fun. Anybody who thinks it's fun to come to somebody else's house and berate them about their choices isn't the sort of person I want to be around.
_________________________
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

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#371212 - 03/27/12 12:25 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1272
Loc: Quebec, Canada
gtp, what you write everywhere tells more about your state of mind (and often about your profound lack of knowledge) than about any audio company.

the only thing wrong about forums is the fact that they only warn you; they should ban you; maybe that would do you some good, because otherwise you never seem to learn, always behaving like a spoiled child who doesn't even know the reason(s) you behave in such a way.
how's this as an example: exlabdriver is referred to as exlaxdriver. this is right in line with most of what you write.
Quote from you:"Keep bringing my name up over and over I will keep responsing" (responding). You must feel you're the victim of huge injustices to write this and other things.

this is just one way you reveal your state of mind. you do have lots of work to do so one day you'll be acceptable to others (sociable) and will not be the rotten apple in the barrel.

i wish you luck and hard work; the results could surprise you in a very good way.

if you don't answer this in your usual way, it's a good sign.


Edited by J. B. (03/27/12 12:29 PM)
_________________________
See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#371216 - 03/27/12 12:34 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: tomtuttle]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6402
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: TOMTUTTLE: FORUM LINEBACKER
Anybody who thinks it's fun to come to somebody else's house and berate them about their choices isn't the sort of person I want to be around.

"These ain’t your pens, Richard! These pens belong in my house! You can’t come in my kitchen and kick my dog and take a box full of ballpoints!!"

TERRY TATE: OFFICE LINEBACKER (3:12)
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#371230 - 03/27/12 01:10 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
gtp: I apologize if you are not Inzer585; however, both of you being from the same location, using almost identical text when berating Axiom & both ditching them for Arx speakers (which is just fine BTW), the coincidences obviously clouded my thinking.

BTW, 'exlabdriver' refers to the large Search & Rescue Helicopter - Boeing CH113/A Labrador - that I flew up here. Over my long time flying on the west coast, amongst many others, I personally rescued several of your country men who had miraculously survived aircraft crashes in our inhospitable mountains, vessel sinkings way offshore in the North Pacific & hoisted sick passengers from Alaska bound cruise ships. 'exlax' is not appreciated,

I sincerely hope that your new ARX speakers are up to your expectations & are most pleasing to you.

TAM

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#371235 - 03/27/12 01:26 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
Hey TAM, I just wanted to thank you for your service!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#371238 - 03/27/12 01:32 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Spoiler Offline
aficionado

Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 680
Loc: South Florida

I'd like to thank you as well TAM. I have the utmost respect for those who serve and have served.
_________________________
Epic 80 / SVS PB13 Ultra
Denon 3805 / M2200 Outlaw Monos /
Sammy 55" LED

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#371239 - 03/27/12 01:33 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
Awesomeness:


_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#371241 - 03/27/12 01:43 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
Tks, Tam! It'd be awesome to hear some of your stories!
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#371249 - 03/27/12 02:00 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
That wonderful pic is of one of our Labrador's (now long retired like me) out of CFB Greenwood, Nova Scotia sitting on that pinnacle in the Bay of Fundy - home of the world's largest tides.

If I knew how to post pics here, I have a couple of me & my crew over a magnificent Alaska bound cruise ship off the north end of Vancouver Island when we were picking up a very sick lady from New York. It's amazing how small we look compare to the ship.

The scariest thing was having a couple thousand passengers & crew watching & taking pics & videos - we sure didn't want to screw up! Except for the onboard slot machines, it was the best entertainment that the ship could offer that day, ha!!

Talk about being off topic...

TAM

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#371250 - 03/27/12 02:05 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
TAM this is a perfect thread to derail.... and we're known for never staying on topic here! smile

To post a photo, you would have to upload them to a photo-hosting website such as photobucket. When you hover over the photo in your album, a pop-up will show with different "codes" to use in posting your photos on various websites. For Axiom, click on the last one (The IMG code) and then paste that here within your post!
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#371268 - 03/27/12 06:39 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: tomtuttle]
GOD Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3169
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Anybody who thinks it's fun to come to somebody else's house and berate them about their choices isn't the sort of person I want to be around.


Umm, Tom, people actually PAY me to do that! And it's more fun than you could imagine!

I spin around in each room like a dervish with my outstretched right arm ending in my pointing hand, saying, like a mantra drone, nope, nope, nope, OK, nope, nope, nope, OK, you serious, bitch?, nope, nope...

I left a client's house a couple of months ago and I accidently had pocketed her Honda keys. The instant I got home I found them in my pocket and called her. She said she wasn't worried that I'd come back and steal anything, since I had just told her that everything in her house was crap.

I guess there's the answer. It's acceptable to shit on other people's choices as long as they're paying you to do so.
Otherwise, it's just for laughs.

We should all be "responsing" to each of his posts with only a two letter reply: FO---pages and pages of FO if need be!

Please stop engaging him, except for humorous replies. Can we get the Forum Police to suspend the "Can't talk like Bob" rule when he's here?

Wouldn't it be a hoot if gtp were bbiggie!



(or Alan)
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#371285 - 03/27/12 09:22 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: exlabdriver]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10406
Tom, I'd also like to express my appreciation of your service to both our countries.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#371290 - 03/27/12 09:54 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
Fellow members, thanks for all of your kind words. It is most appreciated & it makes an old fart feel good, ha!

Once I get familiar with photobucket, perhaps I'll try to post a few 'action/hero' shots in a new thread...

TAM

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#371298 - 03/27/12 11:48 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: exlabdriver]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7147
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
Fellow members, thanks for all of your kind words. It is most appreciated & it makes an old fart feel good, ha!

I'm just jealous you got to fly one of those heliocopter thingamabobs. The few times I've had a ride, its been waaay too much fun!
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#371301 - 03/27/12 11:55 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
Yup, it's the most fun that you can do while sitting up, except perhaps for having a couple of afterburners kick you in the butt on a cold winter's day.

Used to do that in my younger days as well...

TAM

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#371302 - 03/28/12 12:04 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: exlabdriver]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 813
Loc: Victoria,BC
Did you fly those Martin Mars Tom, I seen one take off from Lake Cowichan one time camping on a small island just across from Youbou.

I swear I could see the pilots eyes ,he was so close to me. What a site to see that was! Wow Yes, and thanks for serving!
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#371304 - 03/28/12 12:24 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
No, In fact I've never ever flown a prop machine, even in basic flight training. In the late 60's for a couple of years the RCAF started us out directly on the CT114 Tutor Jet (of Snowbirds fame); however, attrition was so high that they switched the program to small prop jobs to give new pilots a fighting chance. Looking back, I don't know how I made it, ha!

As for the Martin Mars, it was recently featured on Discovery Channel's 'Mighty Planes' series where they followed it from Vancouver Island on a deployment to a reservoir in Texas to fight forest/brush fires just over the border in Mexico. It has been outfitted with modern electronics & it looks really nice inside & out.

Mighty Planes is an interesting series if you like flying machines...

TAM

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#371308 - 03/28/12 01:35 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: exlabdriver]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7147
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
Yup, it's the most fun that you can do while sitting up, except perhaps for having a couple of afterburners kick you in the butt on a cold winter's day.

Used to do that in my younger days as well...

TAM

Now I'm double jealous. grin

Most fun I had in the air was my second experience heli skiing. The company used old surplus military choppers. The ones they used in Viet Nam. Those things were powerful... and noisy.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#371317 - 03/28/12 06:44 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
And old....don't forget old.....
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#371331 - 03/28/12 09:44 AM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: fredk]
GOD Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3169
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Originally Posted By: fredk
Originally Posted By: exlabdriver
Yup, it's the most fun that you can do while sitting up, except perhaps for having a couple of afterburners kick you in the butt on a cold winter's day.

Used to do that in my younger days as well...

TAM

Now I'm double jealous. grin

Most fun I had in the air was my second experience heli skiing. The company used old surplus military choppers. The ones they used in Viet Nam. Those things were powerful... and noisy.


You've been heliskiing???!!! Can you not see what Mark is posting, Grampa?
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#371365 - 03/28/12 03:49 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6865
Loc: PEI, Canada
In my one and only true powder experience, which I experienced in near zero visibility, I encountered the worst case of vertigo I ever had.

Obviously, first time in powder + zero visibility = one nearly dead Andrew so I stopped for a rest before I truly killed myself. Then my skis started vibrating. 'That should not be happening' I think to myself. Eventually, I realize I'm not about to die in an avalanche because my skis are vibrating because despite what my brain is telling me, I'm actually sliding down the very steep hill sideways. I give up trying to dig in and try to ski to what I think is my right where the crazy guy who took me here assured me I could find a more gentle slope. I wisely left a trail of puke from the combination of exhaustion and insane vertigo, just in case I had to double back.

PS,
Thanks from me too Labdriver. Two of my good friends were rescued out somewhere east of the Grand Banks by a S&R crew in very nasty weather. Brave work indeed!!
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#371367 - 03/28/12 04:01 PM Re: Scoop on Axiom Subs? [Re: Cork]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1039
Well you are certainly braver than me. I would never go heli-skiing as I just to not have the skiing skills nor the strength to ski that deep, wonderful powder.

Besides, you are normally in avalanche country as we see in tragedies out here every winter. More than a few skiers & skidooers meet their maker every year...

TAM

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