I think that grunt was reflecting upon how this discussion is quite similar in nature to many of the threads in the AV123 forum about how customers/fans were often ravenously awaiting new products, which in that particular case, were often promised and (almost) never delivered, despite how much hoopla and even customer deposits, were received.

That said, we know that this type of stuff will never occur here, and nobody, I'm sure, intended to paint Ian & Co. with the same brush, nor even infer as much.

The closest that we get to that around here is having a guy named Mark, but he's not Shifty.

You got it!

It’s fanboyism (IMO another way of saying groupthink) I despise even if a lighter version than that based on napkin plans.

I hope Axiom succeeds in this venture but I’ll reserve judgment until I read some independent reviews.

I have a special sensitivity to it here after the lashing I used to receive from some for daring to suggest that the VP150 couldn't keep up with my M80s and look what happened when the VP180 came out. . . .

I had said the 150 was undersized for years... I dont distinctly remember people jumping on me, not to say that it didn't happen to you...

Right now, i am excited to see the new product... However, i am not sure that i will be a buyer. I think excitement around a new product is normal, and expected. I think the vast majority of people on the forum have had a good experience with this company, and would not hesitate to buy a future product from them... I personally never went to the AV123 forum, as i never bought any of their products... It is unfortunate for someone to string people along, and take their money and never deliver a product.. In many ways that type of activity tarnishes the entire industry...

The sad thing is that was only the beginning...he was indicted/charged and found guilty on a charity scam that defrauded over 700 of his own customers through his web forum.

Yeah, but you don't wear a leather helmet and look like a wildman.

Dean, you may have been jumped on by the over-protective, but speaking plainly has gained you a lot of credibility with many on this forum.

edit: That said, we may be fans, but it is not based on fluff. Axiom has proven several times over that it is able to deal with adversity in a timely and professional manner. What goes on in this thread if bubbling over with enthusiasm, but it is not the worship that went on at AV123.

Still no photos!?!?!?

It's true that I'm jumping the gun and basing my excitement for new Axiom products on experiences with products they currently offer. Only time will tell whether the excitement was warranted. I admire your level-headedness, Dean. I'll probably continue to get over-excited by the possibilities in new upgrades.

I was very excited when the VP160 was first announced and luckily my enthusiasm was verified by a terrific product, hopefully Axiom continues this proof of product in this venture.

Jeesh... some people know how to burst the bubble wrap!

Sounds good Ian, keep in touch...as I am very serious about my decision.

As Kruncher aptly noted I was not making a one for one comparison. To me things like irrational exuberance fall on a scale making for a difference in degree and not kind, this is the social scientist in me where I prefer not to see differences as discrete but rather falling on a continuum which is the basis of my comparison.

The way I look at it is if I were to decide to upgrade my mains or whole system for that matter (can’t imagine why I would unless I won the lottery and then I’d upgrade my house (read room) first) I would revisit all potential speakers that focus on neutral presentation. So say if the new Axioms came in at the same price as the B&Ws I though sounded better than the M80s (but not 3 times better) then I would also consider the B&Ws as viable upgrades. To do otherwise out of brand loyalty would not make any sense to me.

OTOH if I was shopping for my speakers for the first time like before when I chose Axiom and the new Axioms sounded just as good as those B&Ws and cost the same then I’d still buy the M80s and . . . because IMO the new Axioms wouldn’t be any better value than the B&Ws were. I just don’t see the sense in paying a much greater sum for something that is incrementally better than what I could get for much less. In short the opportunity cost for higher end speakers is just too much for me to rationalize.