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#369772 - 03/15/12 12:01 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: Ken.C]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 812
Loc: Victoria,BC
Originally Posted By: Ken.C
I believe we are almost edging into the 5 digits. Amazing. I'm one of the last 3 digits, and I've only been a member for 9 years. Uh.... only? Yeesh.


Rush- Nobody's Hero?


edit: wrong thread, sry


Edited by SBrown (03/15/12 12:02 AM)
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#369773 - 03/15/12 12:16 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: SBrown]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 812
Loc: Victoria,BC
Hey Ian, can you show us the secret weapon for the secret weapon yet? That is my.............?
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#369777 - 03/15/12 04:28 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: Andrew]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11146
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: Andrew
We also need to have far more control over the acoustic response of both sections of the speaker, something impossible with conventional crossover networks on their own. 4-channel DSP to the rescue!


Andrew, thanks for taking the time to shed a little light on the design of the new speaker. As for the code in the DSP, do you think this is something that could be refined over time? If so, is Axiom including a way to do something along the lines of firmware updates? It seems like software is becoming a major part of new developments in Axiom's designs. At one point there was talk of the USB port on the backs of the DSP-based subs being a potential way to update the DSP's code, but I'm not sure it was ever utilized for that. Maybe they had Mojo try an update that way once? Or did I dream that? In any case, now it seems to simply be there to plug in a USB light. For a lot of consumers, it would probably be nice to know that performance would continue to be improved over time with simple software updates.

Ideally, it would be nice to see Axiom release a pre-pro of their own, as they planned to do back when the original A1400s were coming out. I can certainly understand why it never happened. People want the world in features these days. I think a lot of the design of the pre-pro would need to be outsourced, and probably production of it as well, but it seems like it would be great to have one central unit doing all of the DSP stuff necessary for these new speakers as well as having the potential to import extra profiles for whatever other Axiom speakers are in the system. A processor that's fully aware of the performance characteristics of every speaker that's connected to it. I know, I ramble a bit.

Besides my unwelcome opinions on how you can cater to me, I do want to say that I like the grills on the new speaker, and it's nice to see some outriggers after people have so often requested them. Will the outriggers be made available for the other floorstanders?
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#369778 - 03/15/12 04:57 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: CV]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10832
Loc: Central NH
Originally Posted By: CV
it seems like it would be great to have one central unit doing all of the DSP stuff necessary for these new speakers as well as having the potential to import extra profiles for whatever other Axiom speakers are in the system.


Honestly, Charles, I don't see that as being realistic (cool as it would be).

If a pre-pro were designed essentially for these speakers alone, the production run would be so short that the final price would be astronomical. Even if the DSP technology were to be made available to ALL the Axiom lineup in the future, that pre-pro would still only likely sell in infinitesimally small numbers in comparison to the rest of the market.

On the other hand, if Axiom were to design and produce an excellent pre-pro that sold well BEYOND the Axiom family because of it's feature-set, upgrade ability and reasonable cost, incorporating a DSP that specifically enhances Axiom speakers might result in a good number of additional speakers being sold as well.

Mighty tall order in the fast changing pre-pro world, though.
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#369782 - 03/15/12 06:58 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: MarkSJohnson]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 171
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
So, a flat surface behind as opposed to say, a bookshelf's added diffusion?


Diffusing surfaces will also work well. You only want to stay away from damping.

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#369783 - 03/15/12 07:01 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: JBall]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 171
Originally Posted By: JBall

So how will this system work in a multi channel setup? If someone is running 9.1 with front height or wide speakers, won't there be too many reflections having a speaker like this? Or is this speaker intended to be used in a very high end 2CH only setup?


It will work equally well in a multi channel setup. You might even find that you are able to get away without wide channels. Height channels will not be effected in any way and can still be beneficial in some systems.

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#369784 - 03/15/12 07:18 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: CV]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 171
Originally Posted By: CV
Originally Posted By: Andrew
We also need to have far more control over the acoustic response of both sections of the speaker, something impossible with conventional crossover networks on their own. 4-channel DSP to the rescue!


Andrew, thanks for taking the time to shed a little light on the design of the new speaker. As for the code in the DSP, do you think this is something that could be refined over time? If so, is Axiom including a way to do something along the lines of firmware updates? It seems like software is becoming a major part of new developments in Axiom's designs. At one point there was talk of the USB port on the backs of the DSP-based subs being a potential way to update the DSP's code, but I'm not sure it was ever utilized for that. Maybe they had Mojo try an update that way once? Or did I dream that? In any case, now it seems to simply be there to plug in a USB light. For a lot of consumers, it would probably be nice to know that performance would continue to be improved over time with simple software updates.

Ideally, it would be nice to see Axiom release a pre-pro of their own, as they planned to do back when the original A1400s were coming out. I can certainly understand why it never happened. People want the world in features these days. I think a lot of the design of the pre-pro would need to be outsourced, and probably production of it as well, but it seems like it would be great to have one central unit doing all of the DSP stuff necessary for these new speakers as well as having the potential to import extra profiles for whatever other Axiom speakers are in the system. A processor that's fully aware of the performance characteristics of every speaker that's connected to it. I know, I ramble a bit.

Besides my unwelcome opinions on how you can cater to me, I do want to say that I like the grills on the new speaker, and it's nice to see some outriggers after people have so often requested them. Will the outriggers be made available for the other floorstanders?


The outriggers will be available as an option for the M80. Depending on demand we will look at a version for the M60/M50. Before we can do this we need to establish final pricing which is in the works.

The DSPs can be factory updated if the programming changes in the future. Once the 2-channel version is released it could be purchased for an M60, for instance, and if you wanted to upgrade to M80s at a later date the DSP can be changed to work with the new speakers. I investigated a number of field programmable techniques and all of them were buggy to some extent and added significant cost to the DSP board that we would have to pass on to you. We also prefer to actually measure the unit after reprogramming to make sure the update was successful.

The topic of a pre/pro is something that has been discussed internally a number of times and quickly dismissed. Why? Without using a core platform from one of the major electronics manufacturers we would always be one or two steps behind the times. For a small company to design a custom pre-pro, along with all the licensing requirements, it either impossible or the end product is years late to the game, obsolete out of the box and VERY expensive. I have witnessed this on a number of occasions. If we did use a core platform there is still the matter of integrating custom audio DSP code into the system and development tools for this purpose are very limited and very costly. At that point you would end up with a rebadged model from someone else which we would have to charge much more money for.

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#369787 - 03/15/12 09:03 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: Andrew]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 761
Loc: Toronto
You are sure right about the idea of how difficult it is for a small company to develop its own Pre-Pro. All one has to do is look at Outlaw Audio and they have been around for awhile. In the last three years TWO cancellations of potential Pre-Pro introductions that they felt, in the end, weren't good enough and a third(978) announced over a year ago that still hasn't seen the light of day. As we all know, three years in the CE industry technologically is a lifetime.

Given what has happened here, even pretty loyal customers of Outlaw like myself who has purchased some of their equipment over the years, is getting pretty skeptical of anything materializing. I can't help but be reminded that there has been a lot of mergers and acquisitions in the consumer electronics industry recently and just maybe they might be next on the list. Best to stick with what you do best.


Edited by casey01 (03/15/12 09:07 AM)

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#369791 - 03/15/12 10:25 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: Lampshade]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
Originally Posted By: Lampshade
How many 2 channel nuts do we know on the forum?


I have money set aside for a pair of stereo speakers... I don't think im a "nut" though. I am sure that there are others on the forum who still enjoy the prehistoric 2 channel music thing.

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#369793 - 03/15/12 10:29 AM Re: Exciting News From Axiom! [Re: Andrew]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1844
Originally Posted By: Andrew
For a small company to design a custom pre-pro, along with all the licensing requirements, it either impossible or the end product is years late to the game, obsolete out of the box and VERY expensive.


Outlaw 978 anyone? (Coming soon) for the last few years......

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