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#388834 - 01/26/13 11:24 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: JohnK]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
Quote:
they've become the victims of one of the many audio mythologies that continue to float around and spent money on something that won't be used


Sounds like this could be very possible.

Why can such a potential "farce" have such a market? Even axiom is now dishing out some heavy hitting power amplifiers.

Well you have given me a lot to think about. Time to re-evalute
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#388835 - 01/26/13 11:44 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: Mad_Chesser]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
Quote:
But things begin to change, and rather dramatically. Let's push the M80ti's to what we might experience from a solo grand piano, 109 dB. We're at 96 dB with 10 watts per channel. Let's go to 106 dB. So that requires 10 x 10, or 100 watts. Close, but not quite there yet. Just 3 dB more. Remember, we have to double the power for a 3-dB increase in sound level. So 100 watts becomes 200 watts


-alan

So for these old m80s, with the seating position 12 feet away in a standard room, to reach 109db, one would need 200 watts per channel.

And to go from 109 to 119db, you would need 2000 watts per channel. I think the m80s have only been tested as high as 1200-1400 or something, so this is definitely not needed or recommended.

I would like to reach the 110db level comfortably though.

Seems like a good argument for power amps to me tho?


Edited by Mad_Chesser (01/26/13 11:49 PM)
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#388836 - 01/27/13 12:19 AM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: Mad_Chesser]
exlabdriver Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1012
My head can only handle around 85 - 90 Db in my listening area - unless I've been into the sauce, ha! My 65 W/Ch Tube Amp into my M2s/EP-400 easily puts this level out without cranking it up too much on the volume control. I've checked it on an IPhone & IPad SPL Meter app. BTW, there are some SPL apps for smart phones that evidently are as good as or better than the RS SPL Meter. The 'SPL Meter' app for the IPhone/IPad works really well.

If you expose yourself to 110 Db regularly, eventually you'll be frequenting hearing aid forums discussing the life of their little batteries...

TAM

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#388837 - 01/27/13 12:24 AM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: exlabdriver]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
haha It's when I'm sauced up as well. It's funny you mentioned that app...I just downloaded it for my Galaxy S2(apparently the microphone can't register anything past 95db or something though). I'm getting sauced up as we speak, so I'll test it out in a bit on my current system.

I have to admit though, with all my setups and the power I've had going to them, when it gets to a point where it sounds really loud for my ears, I'm probably hearing distortion.

I might have never heard 100 decibels with minimal distortion on a home theater in my life.
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#388838 - 01/27/13 12:31 AM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: exlabdriver]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
this whole spl meter is new to me. Without getting to official and technical, can I just turn my app on when i'm listening to music in 2 channel mode? (my two cerwin vegas).

I turned an ac/dc song up to my speaker/amps limit and it only registered 86db on my app.

That's crazy

edit: well i found the limits of the app. it peaked once at 86db, but it always sits at 81db now. doesn't seem very reliable


Edited by Mad_Chesser (01/27/13 12:40 AM)
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#388839 - 01/27/13 02:25 AM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: Mad_Chesser]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10383
Nick, for your further education and/or amusement here's Mojo's heroic experiment with his wife's 2 watt boombox driving his M80s. And yes, 21 right and 15 wrong doesn't meet the test of a result significantly different from chance under binomial probabilities standards.
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#388841 - 01/27/13 09:19 AM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: Mad_Chesser]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3187
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi again Mad,

You might well be listening to your system in the range of 80 dB SPL to 85 dB SPL, thinking that you're hearing 100-dB levels. Subjectively, a playback level of 85 dB SPL is describe by most people as "quite loud". Levels 10 dB louder, 95 dB SPL, are termed by most people "very loud," and, with the exception of amplified rock music, typify the peak levels experienced from most good seats in a concert or recital hall from orchestral music. (Amplified rock music is something else again.)

I think the general reluctance to believe that an AV receiver's internal amplifiers can handle most of the demands of very loud music in typical rooms is partly due to the tendency of lots of listeners, after getting "sauced up", to crank up the playback volume to extremely high levels, thus testing or exceeding the limits of a receiver's internal amplifier, or pushing it into distortion. It's why I still endorse having "as much power as you can afford", as a kind of audio "insurance" for those times when you recklessly crank up the levels. With several hundred watts of power in a separate power amplifier, you can be assured that you're unlikely to drive the amplifier into clipping (and possibly damage your speakers from distorted clipped signals) even when you're "sauced up" or stoned.

I don't advocate long-term listening at such levels because of potential hearing damage, and I've been known to flee Axiom parties when levels became ludicrously loud, but I don't deny the thrilling sense of power that comes from owning separate power amplifiers for those moments when you want very clean undistorted output for 100-dB-plus peaks.

By the way, thanks for your compliments on my article.

Regards,
Alan
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#388843 - 01/27/13 09:56 AM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: Mad_Chesser]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1269
Loc: Quebec, Canada
i think that there is another good reason to have more power than needed: moving the audio system to a much larger room, as when someone buys a new house.
then, there is no need to sell your amps and buy new ones.
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#388844 - 01/27/13 11:32 AM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: alan]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
Very good post Alan. I think you hit the nail on the head.

I think you're right, I may have never listened to to music at 100 decibels before. I was just guessing...seems my guess could be way off.

Quote:
It's why I still endorse having "as much power as you can afford", as a kind of audio "insurance"


I think that's a perfect way of putting it smile
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#388845 - 01/27/13 11:32 AM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: J. B.]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
Originally Posted By: J. B.
i think that there is another good reason to have more power than needed: moving the audio system to a much larger room, as when someone buys a new house.
then, there is no need to sell your amps and buy new ones.


This is a good point too smile
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