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#388818 - 01/26/13 04:27 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: CatBrat]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
the sc-68 isn't a for sure thing. I'm hoping to.

I'd like a little more headroom then that amp offers though. I want to run a power amp regardless
_________________________
2 Axiom M80s v3
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2 Paradigm ADP-150
Pioneer SC-61
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#388821 - 01/26/13 06:15 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: Mad_Chesser]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10399
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I think you will be surprised at just how loud the SC or any other avr with that quality can drive the M80s. Most of these avr's are capable of producing clean sound to around 100db, to get just 10 more db you need about 1000w, with a listening distance of 3m away(my house)

Check this calculator out.

http://www.crownaudio.com/elect-pwr-req.htm

It gives you a rough estimate as to power requirements.
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#388823 - 01/26/13 06:24 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: jakewash]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
That's a great calculator. Thanks smile

Maybe it's all in my head, but I've always found that the more power I can feed the speakers, the better they sound.

For example:

I'm sure if I had the m80s with a Pioneer Elite at 90db and compared that to running them through a power amp with 300w a channel, still keeping the volume at 90db, it would sound better to me.

Maybe I'm just used to running old speakers with old amps so the amp makes a much bigger difference to me.

I mean, it would be nice to not have to buy a separate power amp, so maybe I'll try it out first
_________________________
2 Axiom M80s v3
1 Axiom VP160 v3
2 Paradigm ADP-150
Pioneer SC-61
Rotel RMB-1095
51" Samsung Plasma

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#388824 - 01/26/13 06:29 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: Mad_Chesser]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
I'm definitely known to listen to loud music at times at around 100db or more(though I must admit, this is merely a guess. I don't own a SPL meter). Loud enough to send animals running and make you feel like you are in a rock concert. I'm really looking forward to testing the m80s on their ability to play loud.
_________________________
2 Axiom M80s v3
1 Axiom VP160 v3
2 Paradigm ADP-150
Pioneer SC-61
Rotel RMB-1095
51" Samsung Plasma

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#388827 - 01/26/13 07:45 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: Mad_Chesser]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5912
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I play mine at around the 80db range, sometimes louder, with a pair of speakers connected to each channel of the SC-67. This is a whole lot lower than 4ohms and my amp doesn't even get all that hot.

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#388828 - 01/26/13 09:03 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: CatBrat]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
Originally Posted By: CatBrat
I play mine at around the 80db range, sometimes louder, with a pair of speakers connected to each channel of the SC-67. This is a whole lot lower than 4ohms and my amp doesn't even get all that hot.


very nice! well, I NEED a new receiver and it sounds like I don't necessarily need the power amp...for now wink
_________________________
2 Axiom M80s v3
1 Axiom VP160 v3
2 Paradigm ADP-150
Pioneer SC-61
Rotel RMB-1095
51" Samsung Plasma

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#388829 - 01/26/13 10:10 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: Mad_Chesser]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10405
Nick, the first point is that the Crown calculator certainly isn't a "great calculator" when a home listening room is the venue. It's based on an anechoic measurement without the room reinforcement that changes the measurement significantly. The result from using the calculator unadjusted for the room is as much as 4 times the true number. Crown fails to even mention this key factor on the calculator page and only brings it to light here near the end under "Other Considerations" where it suggests adding 6dB for the room contribution, which is equivalent to reducing the power figure to 1/4th of the previous value shown on the calculator.

Also, as was pointed out previously, but you apparently can't accept, the only way you can "feed" a speaker more power is to make it louder; simply connecting an amplifier with a higher maximum output rating does nothing. If a speaker such as the M80 is using about 1 watt for a comfortably loud average level, 1 watt is all that it's being fed, regardless of whether the amplifier can output a max of 10 watts, 100 watts or 1000 watts.

Simply keeping the volume control on a receiver or separate pre-pro at the same number doesn't keep the volume the same when a separate amplifier is connected. The separate amplifier can have a different gain than the amplifier in the receiver and can be slightly louder at the same volume setting. This is why blind listening tests have to make careful adjustments so that the volume is matched within 0.1dB for the units under test. Louder gives an impression of being better, rather than just louder.
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#388830 - 01/26/13 10:30 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: JohnK]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
Quote:
imply connecting an amplifier with a higher maximum output rating does nothing. If a speaker such as the M80 is using about 1 watt for a comfortably loud average level, 1 watt is all that it's being fed, regardless of whether the amplifier can output a max of 10 watts, 100 watts or 1000 wat


Quote:
This is why blind listening tests have to make careful adjustments so that the volume is matched within 0.1dB for the units under test. Louder gives an impression of being better, rather than just louder.


That was well said. See, I'm really in the dark about some things. I've learned more in the past month online through this site and many others. What you said makes perfect sense.

I've always thought it was a good thing to be able to feed a speaker what it is rated for. In this case, I thought it would be ideal to be feeding each m80 as close to 400 watts each as possible.


Just to feed my curiousity and thirst for knowledge a little more...

Why is it that SO many people who own m80's run seperate power amps?

Is it just because people don't know any better?(kind of like the people who think that biwiring/biamping makes a difference?...well biamping without taking the crossovers out that is)
_________________________
2 Axiom M80s v3
1 Axiom VP160 v3
2 Paradigm ADP-150
Pioneer SC-61
Rotel RMB-1095
51" Samsung Plasma

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#388831 - 01/26/13 10:41 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: Mad_Chesser]
Mad_Chesser Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 195
Loc: B.C., Canada
I just started googling about all of this and found this article

http://www.axiomaudio.com/power

very good article I thought smile
_________________________
2 Axiom M80s v3
1 Axiom VP160 v3
2 Paradigm ADP-150
Pioneer SC-61
Rotel RMB-1095
51" Samsung Plasma

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#388833 - 01/26/13 10:56 PM Re: A new Axiom owner soon! I have questions... [Re: Mad_Chesser]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10405
I don't know how many people using M80s buy a separate("there's a rat in separate")amplifier, but if the amplifier in their receiver has the power capacity for their needs(as is usually the case), they've become the victims of one of the many audio mythologies that continue to float around and spent money on something that won't be used.
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