Anybody here have an opinion or any experience with pellet grills? I found this Green Mountain grill while reading a post on another forum about bbqs. It looks to be the perfect form factor for me, incredibly versitile, and has an acceptable price tag. I won't pay stoopid $$$ for a BGE.

I've spoken briefly to one person that's use one of its larger cousins for a while and he seems happy with it both as a smoker and for grilling.

Sounds almost too good to be true.

I'm no expert. There are many Traeger grills here in the PNW. Reports from friends indicate high satisfaction, but not really high enough heat for all grilling demands. I've always wanted one for hassle free smoking and BBQ. I've also heard that there is important variation among thermostats.

It's probably worth a shot since it meets your needs so well.

I have a couple friends who love their Traegers. I almost bought one, but I refuse to buy something that will live outdoor, and is not stainless steel. Traeger was built in the US, but no longer. Now they are made in China. Cheap and tinny in comparison.

I'm looking at a smoker now. Saw one at the local Sam's Club. Stainless steel, Bluetooth. .. Under 400 bucks.

Simply put and true. Unless its absolutely horrible, it is going to be a big improvement over what I have now.

The reviews this thing gets are all very, very good.

The guy I talked to has both a Traeger and a GMG. He thinks the GMG is a lot better.

Michael. I did not realize how far pellet burners have come. I always thought they were just for the wood stove crowd: a fancy way to burn sawdust to make heat.

I just started to experiment with smoking things….for eating anyway. I love it, and am sold on that process. They ain’t just for smoking salmon anymore! My buddy has been smoking cheese, and I kinda like it too.

For the fourth, I decided to try smoking some pork ribs with a dry rub. Had to use one of those aluminum pie pans, and fill it with wood chips soaked in water and then placed on the burners of my gas grill. It worked, OK, but dang….what a PITA. But oh-boy, those were the best tasting ribs I’ve ever cooked. So now I’m sold. I’m gunna buy a smoker.

That GMG looks like a better grill than the Treagers. That is unless you can find one of the old ones built in the US. A friend has one of the originals, and it’s a friggin beast. Must weigh about 300 pounds. He can cook a whole turkey on it, it’s so big.

I'm considering moving to a state that will allow me to experiment with smoking different things, too.

I can help you relocate to WA, Mark.

Those GMG products really do look great - agree with Mike's assessment wrt Traeger. Do want.

You stay outta this Mark. You already got me in trouble with the resident Klingon over duct tape.

Michael. I hear you on the quality of Chinese product thing, but... I have a 10 year old Kettle Q I picked up for $25 that's still going strong There is not a spot of rust on the powder coated steel and the grill, which looks as flimsy as they get, also never rusted through. The metal on it appears to be fatiguing from the constant heat cool cycles, so the grill is gradually sagging.

I've been buying a locally produced double smoked cheddar for the last couple of years and damn is it good! I'd love to try to make my own out of a good 5 year old cheddar though.

Believe it or not, you can fit a 16 lb. turkey in that little tailgater.

I love the idea that you can program cooking profiles into this thing and monitor them through your phone.

Love these guys...

http://amazingribs.com/BBQ_buyers_guide/smokers/pellet_smokers.html

Hey Mark, my state is cool with herb now.... Lots of things to take pictures of too...

My buddy just smoked some blue cheese. I haven't tried it yet. Kinda scared to.

I absolutely love a slow smoke cooked brisket. Probably my favorite read meat.

Another friend smoked an elk tenderloin a couple weeks ago.... Man that thing was good.

Ya, I gotta get one. I'm making myself hungry.

That chit is really hard to lite.

Anyone I've talked to that uses a pellet smoker really likes them. I never ate anything from one but they get good reviews. You have to watch the cost of the fuel, some report it can get expensive.

For ease of use a Weber Smokey Mountain is one of the most popular smokers around. I use one and can smoke large pieces up to 12 to 14 hours with just one load of charcoal using the minion method.

RICK!

Rick ALWAYS shows up when there's talk of BBQ, Grillin' or smokin'.

We need to keep this thread alive just to keep him around!

Crumble and snort. Much easier.

Hey Rick. I was hoping you would comment.

Hmm, the last time I looked at the Weber it was quite pricey. I see they have a smaller model now that might actually work for me. Still, it's not quite as versatile as the GMG tailgater.

I did look into the cost of pellets. I see it is going to be more expensive than charcoal, but I'm probably not going to do a lot of big smokes where you burn through a lot of pellets.

It does give me something to think about though.

Howdy fellas

If I were going to look at a low cost and easy way to Q I would have to consider an electric like the Masterbuilt units. A friend on mine has one and he puts out some good product with it.

I see you are wanting to grill with it too, might not want the electric then.

So am I to understand that you guys don't just microwave your steaks the way I do?

:: runs...hides :::

Microwave?!

Arent ya supposed to boil them in ketchup?

I have a pellet grill/smoker (Green Mountain) and I love it. Goes low enough to smoke, and high enough to grill. The food that comes off of it is wonderful!

Do pellet smokers use traditional...i.e., "heating" pellets?

Heating pellets are a no-no. You must use food grade wood pellets for smoking. I have heard of a few select pellet suppliers that say their heating pellets are food grade, but I would think the majority are not suitable.

Which model GM do you have Mark? I have been looking into options for a dedicated smoker for some time now. I have used a standard Weber kettle for many years with great success, but I keep thinking I should get something "serious"! The problem is what should I buy? I have friends that swear by the simple WSM, others love their Big Green Eggs, and then there are the pellet guys. They tend to brag about not having to babysit them, but everyone one of them that I know personally (all have Traegers) have suffered from controller failure at some point! Yikes! I don't want to plunk down a pile of $$$ only to have the electronics give up the ghost in a year or two. Also, I am not sure of the availability of smoking pellets in Canada...I am sure they are available, but they could be very expensive. Any input is appreciated!

I assumed so, but have never heard of "food grade pellets".

That would be because there is no such thing as a food grade pellet. It's not a regulated product. Its marketing fluff. If the pellet is all hardwood 'clean' hardwood, you can burn it in your smoker. Talk to the manufacturer.

What you may get from companies that manufacture specifically for the smoker/grilling market is specific blends of hardwoods that are supposed to impart the right flavour.

Some people claim they cannot taste the difference between a quality 'heating' pellet and the 'food grade' pellets out there. Others claim they can. I wonder if it is one of those things where you have to do side by side tastings to tell the difference.

FWIW, most (not sure which) food grade pellets contain something like 70% oak and 30% flavour woods. You can buy pure pellets (ie: 100% hickory, mesquite...) but now you are paying a real premium.

Quality hardwood heating pellets will run you 10 - 12 cents per pound. Blended food grade runs around $1 per pound. Pure flavour woods are more.

I've found a company local to me that produces a hardwood pellet consisting of oak, cherry and walnut that I plan to try out. They state on their website that the pellets are hardwood sawdust only, no binders or other stuff (like MDF??). If I can find a reliable source for pure flavour woods here, I can probably make my own blends at a much lower cost than what is offered by the 'food grade' manufacturers.

Andrew. Think of the "Heating pellets are a no-no" statement as the bbq equivelant of "Aluminum speaker baskets are a must" for the audiopile crowd.

Andrew. I was wondering about pellet availability as well. It looks like Traeger is widely available in Canada (there are 5 places in the KW area) but I don't know the cost. I picked up a bag of mixed fruitwood with my GMG today at the $1 per lb. price. There is a GMG dealer in Barrie and I suspect their pricing is similar.

Your comments about the failing electronics is interesting. I have not seen any similar comments in the pellet grill discussions I've read, and I've done a LOT of reading in the last week. When you look at it, what you have is a simple control board, PID and a couple of thermometers. This is not bleeding edge tech, so it should not be hard to manufacture reliable electronics.

Edit: From the Gildale Farms website

"Can I use Gildale Fuel Pellets in my pellet barbecue?

Gildale Fuel Pellets are very effective in pellet barbecues. Our pellets are additive-free and are completely safe to use to cook your food."

Mark. I'm sure I read somewhere that square rooms enhance the flavour characteristics of pellet grills. You should buy one.

The Davey Crockett would be perfect. It would fit nicely between your mains and its short enough that it won't block the TV screen.

I have the Daniel Boone. Have had it for 6 years now. The advantage of a pellet smoker (at least GMG) over something ala BGE, is the fact you can go high on heat for grilling if desired. I can easily go anywhere from 150* F to 500* F. I would google smoker pellets for locations in CA to purchase them.

I have found pellet costs over the course to be slightly more expensive than using propane.

Those Memphis 3 in 1's sure look good. All SS construction, and digital controls. Kinda spendy though.

Ahh..."quality" heating pellet! That's where the confusion comes from. Most "standard" heating pellets are made from softwood which you DON'T want to use in your smoker. As you point out, because they are not regulated there could be anything in them.

If you want to kill a few hours Fred, just google "traeger controller problems".

I'm looking at getting a new smoker and looked briefly at a pellet smoker but when they say 1 to 2 lbs of pellets per hour that turned me off. For a 14 hour brisket smoke that could get very expensive quick.

I think a front runner for me is a 22.5 WSM with a controller.

WOOT! First smoke/grill is done. I did a couple of salmon filets. Unfortunately, after assembly and burn in, I had to rush the fish a little to get it done before I had to leave for work, but it was still tasty.

Assembly was simple. The only fiddly bit was getting all the protective plastic off the stainless pieces.

Startup and first burn was also simple: put the startup charge in the burn cup, press power, go make a coffee. Once a temperature displayed on the controller I cranked it up to 550 and let it run for 1/2 hour to burn off any manufacturing residue.

Since you already have the smaller version and like it, that sounds like a good plan. Is the controller something designed for the WSM or do you have to do a retrofit?

Since I'm talking to quality people on a quality audio forum, I thought that went without saying.

Nothin' but the best here.

Fred, it's a ready to use unit. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_27&products_id=396

Make sure you use Kimber Pellets.

Mapleshade pellets are superior, since they are so thin.

Dang it Fred..... Now I'm looking at pellet smokers..... After reading some articles on that rib web site Tom linked to, electric smokers don't sound so appealing. And then the controllers come into play. To get a stainless pellet smoker, I'm going to need to spend about $1500 or more... I think a need to visit Cabbalas.

I'll follow up with some pictures of mouth watering Q just to seal the deal then?

I'll just leave this here...


http://www.wired.com/2015/07/high-tech-bbq/

Thanks for the link Dakon. It was an interesting read.

Well, I have lots to learn about using this thing. Did a chicken tonight and it turned out well, much more juicy than what I get in an oven, but there was not much flavour from the smoke and the skin was inedible.

I also need a good digital thermometer to help validate what my probe reads. Either it's way off or I did not place it properly tonight.

Thermapens are great for BBQs. I got the Big Green Egg and it is a game changer around our household, but somehow I do all the cooking now. We use it everyday.
Have you ever Spatchcocked a chicken , cutting the backbone out and then flattening it. The dark and white meat are ready at basically the same time when you do that.

Thermapens are the only therm to use. I've had one for years, couldn't imagine cooking without one.

Do you have a favorite pen? There's like a gazillion of them....

Wait. Aliens are forcing you to do what?

The tip is supposed to be as close to the middle of the thickest part as possible. Just like "they" told you.

Here ya go Mike

http://thermoworks.com/products/thermapen/

Thanks Rick!

http://thermoworks.com/products/thermapen/backlit_thermapen.html

Get this one. Same thing as Rick linked... But, backlit.. get the backlit one...

Which model has the blue LEDs?

I saw that one and ordered it.

First long smoke:

This is on my daughter's deck in Ottawa. At 57 lb its portable, but a little awkward to move.

The pork shoulder is 7 lb. and 5 hours into the smoke. Looks good already.

Do they recommend the exhaust to be partially closed. I have always been told to keep the exhaust fully open.

That's one of the things I've been wondering. I have not really seen anything on using the damper.

How does open vs close effect a smoke?

I wonder how much difference it makes with the fan causing positive flow through the smoker.

FWIW, 7.5 hours in and not done yet. I thought it would be about 1 hour per lb, but maybe that's at a higher temp. I ran it at 225 for the first 6 hours and then pushed it up to 235 because I wondered if it might take longer than expected.

Note to self. Pack temp probe next time. I'll have to figure out when its done the old fashioned way.

A 7lber can take up to 10 to 12 hours at lower temps. I like to go around 250 for most things, poultry a bit higher.

It has been said you can trap the smoker with the damper closed causing a bitter taste to the meat.

Well, we hit 10:00pm and couldn't wait any longer. I cut off a third of the meat cut it up and served it and left the rest of it to smoke a while longer.

It may not have been perfect, but still darn tasty for a first attempt. I did up a 'Grown up Mustard Sauce' I found at amazingribs.com. Yum!

I'll pull off the rest of the meat when I go to bed I guess.

Awesome and inspiring!

Wow! Looks delicious. The neighbors were probably pacing the fenceline....

Thanks guys. It was/is pretty tasty. The second part of the smoke was still not 'pull off the bone' done at 11:30 pm when I pulled it off the smoker.

There is obviously a lot to doing this really well, but I'm looking forward playing with this thing until I get it right.

Up your smoker temp to 250 and take the meat temp up to 200. You will then get pull off the bone pork.

Now this thread is the bomb.
Having said that, i expect the NSA to begin flagging my posts and they should, because they'll get some great bbq tips.

We bought a Big Green Egg about 3 years ago now.
Portable?
No, not really.
But they can be!!



Low and slow is the way to master big meat cooking.
225F to 275F is the most common temp for ribs, brisket, pulled pork, etc.
Time to cook depends on the pounds and cut (e.g. ribs alot less time than pulled pork which generally is smaller than brisket ...)
That being said, the shortest 7 lb brisket cook we had was 14 hours.
You gotta start them early in the morning, or cook them overnight which some people do.

There are many good websites out there with info, but some have more detail and fact based info which i tend to prefer over "Bob's home recipe", just because Bob says it works.

The best info i got for cooking a brisket, and notes on beef cuts, myths on basting, injections, time and temps to cook, etc. came from here:

http://amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/texas_brisket.html

Best info i got on the most objective trials for charcoal was from here:
http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lump.htm

And i may as well follow that up with this:

I am going to be looking for a temp auto controller for those times where i need to change the temps on the BGE for multiple item cooking. For single item, set temp and let run, not a problem.
Easy as pie.
Actually pie is rather hard to make IMO, so i'll say it is just easy.

We used several types of charcoal in our BGE and have settled on a Canadian brand which happens to be called Maple Leaf.
http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lumpdatabase/lumpbag3.htm
The flavour it gives to roasted corn on the cob done in the husks is damn amazing!
We also tried the Dragon's Breath the past year.
http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lumpdatabase/lumpbag78.htm
Harder to light, but damn it gets hot. Had a might sharper flavour that kind of overpowered things like shrimp. We liked it for beef and pork but decided an all around flavor for anything charcoal is probably best to use full time.

Have yet to try pizza on the BGE, but i know it can hit temps of 700F and up pretty damn fast!

After too much time reading reviews, I ordered a MAK, one star general and some extra options, including their meat probe. I hope to put it to use this weekend.

And a meat probe is a definite must.
I used to cook 'by eye' and by overall cooking time, temp and meat thickness. That is still viable with hamburgers and steaks, but with a brisket?
Forget it.
That being said, i quite regularly stick the probe into some pork chops so i can get that exact temperature before they start to get dry.
I think that temp is 160F by Canadian Health standards but in the US it was bumped down to 145F. At 145F, the pork has just a nice light pink in the centre (not bloody). I quit cooking when the probe hits 140F and by the time the meat comes off to rest before plating, 145F is attained.

Briskets and pulled pork require higher temps, usually 195F to 200F. Fall off the bone though!
The first brisket we did was scrumptious and so filling. After dinner was done, people were still sitting at the table picking away at the brisket 'carcass'.

Good on ya, Mike(s)!

Good stuff Mikey! The MAK has a very good reputation.

That's why I went straight to the pellet grill. You get all that stuff with the base unit. A BGE would have been between 2 and 3 times the price and then I'd want to bolt on a PID.

I haven't used it yet but I did get an Auber PID for a 22.5 Weber Smokey Mountain I just picked up. It's maiden voyage will be this Sunday. Making a couple racks of baby backs.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_27&products_id=396

And admittedly three years ago, i knew the BGE was more expensive than other kamado bbqs. I seriously considered the Big Steel Keg for about $400 less, but the only thing that turned me off was its inability to back down temperature as quickly as the BGE. That is to say, if you cooked potatoes at 425F then wanted to move the temp down to 325F for a roast, it took alot longer to get the temp to drop.
The good part is that it demonstrated its ability to hold heat, but it holds it so well that adjusting down takes time. The BGE also holds heat well, but it can turn down much quicker after adjusting.
That was the ONLY thing keeping me from getting the Big Steel Keg instead.
Otherwise with $400 to spare, i could have bought all these temp control trimmings at the time.

I had contemplated something like a pellet smoker back then, but they hadn't come as far as they have now. A low heat smoker for just indirect cooking wasn't as appealing.
I want to sear steaks and hamburgers. We've also done pizzas at 700F on the BGE.
How hot can the pellets go?
Can the modern ones do direct searing without IR?

Ribs are a funny thing.
I love them when they are fall off the bone, but apparently true bbq experts say that they shouldn't be fall off the bone and rightly cannot be unless they are boiled (BIG BBQ SIN).
They are supposed to be cooked tender but should have a bite consistency like a soft steak, so i've read.

Some past occasions i tried to get to this fall off the bone stage and did ribs at 250F for say 3 hours and all that happened was they dried out horribly. I typically have a tray of water in the bbq to add moisture but you have to keep filling up the thing.
So two weekends ago i used a Bobby Flay method from his Food Network show. The ribs were good, not overcooked, but i did take them off 30 min before Bobby's recommended time because the ends were looking horribly dried out (and progressing towards the middle meat). There was tenderness but still kind of rubbery.
I was expecting better results in the tender category.

Ribs seem to be my nemesis!
Brisket and pulled pork, easy IMO.

I find ribs pretty easy. I normally do baby backs with the 2-2--1 method and spares or St. Louis 3-2-1. Sometimes I spritz some times I don't. If anything I tend to over cook and get fall off the bone ribs. I've found that's what most people love with ribs.

I've not had issue with doing pork ribs on my rotisserie on the grill, but beef ribs are hard.

The last time I did beef ribs they were a bit tough. Still trying to figure them out.

It's funny. When i first started cooking ribs, this is sort of what i did although i don't think i cooked them for that long (maybe 3 hours max with 1 hour smoking, 1 hour covered, and the last hour smoking again).
They did come out fairly well.

Somewhere along the lines we moved away from covering. I think we had an issue where the sugar caramelized and then stuck to the foil and we ended up cutting off rib meat to even eat the damn things.
What i can't recall is whether i had the flame spreader in place or if the ribs were being cooked over the coals that day.

In any event, i'm going back to the 2-2-1 idea and i'm going to give the 'long' cook a try. Can't say i've had ribs on the BGE for more than 3 hours before so this will be a first.
Adding 2 hours to the cooking time...

I have to agree though from a comment on this site:
http://majorleaguegrilling.com/2012/01/09/competition-ribs-3-2-1-method/
If you are going to cook ribs, don't do small runs of single package ribs. It isn't worth the 5+ hours of cooking time.
You may as well cook multiple racks.

That's the one downside. Mine goes up to 550 and that's not really hot enough to sear. for steaks I'll still keep my little cheepy kettle.

Otherwise I think its every bit as good as a traditional smoker. Pellet grills have been doing award winning smokes at competitions.

I'm tempted to try ribs tomorrow. Rick. I'll have to read up on these methods you're posting.

The last two rib cooks were not great so i'm tempted to try it again today as well.
But instead we're doing seafood.

I have a couple racks of baby backs for tomorrow. Will be the first time for the new smoker and PID controller. Going to try 225 for 5 hours.

I'm curious to know how you find smoking with the pid.

My plans for today were waylaid. I've got a couple of pork tenderloins that have been in my fridge for a week now (vacuum packed) that are now marinating. We'll see how that goes.

Well the Mak performed admirably. Way too easy. Fill up the hopper, hit the start button, set the grill temp, insert meat probe and set meat temp - drink favorite beverages..... When the meat reaches temp, an obnoxious alarm starts beeping, and the grill temp lowers. Very cool. I smoked an elk rib (very lean), and it came out fantastic. Nice smoke ring and tender. Cooked it till it reached 130. Then we smoked a Wagyu tri tip. 160 deg this time. Perfect. This thing keeps the grill temp within 5 deg, always. Amazing. Looking forward to trying to different things with it.

It does go through the pellets though. Close to 1 pound per hour if you crank the temp up. The taste of the food is well worth it to me though.

Sounds like a fairly positive review.
I'm anxious to settle on a temp control as well. I like the idea of having a wireless unit that i can monitor at a distance and even change the temp on the road if you wanted to ramp it up while away from the unit.

That was one thing i read about smokers, is how much in pellet pounds they use. 1lb per hour is about what i recall reading.
What is the cost vs. charcoal i wonder?

From what I've read they are more expensive, but that depends on the cooking temp, and what pellets you buy.

Pellets are generally about a buck a pound for grilling pellets, but I'm looking into a local source that is way cheaper. Its a blend of oak, cherry and walnut for about 12 cents per pound.

I know these Maks have Wi-Fi capability, but I have not looked into that yet. I think I need to buy an adapter or something.... The controller does work very well, so far anyway. Can't wait to smoke some chickens, and a turkey.

And that's probably why it is so cheap.
Kind of an odd blend. Lots of scraps in there perhaps?

Beer can chicken on the BGE is phenomenal, but i'm looking for a ceramic stand because there's no way i'm going to use an actual beer can during the cooking.

Best ribs I've had so far, were smoked on the grill following Michael Symon's recipe. It's in his Carnivore cookbook (highly recommend this to all meat and fat lovers).

We covered this a few pages back. Its that cheap because its not 'food grade'. Food grade is marketing bs since there is no certification through the fda or similar organization.

There seems to be a range of opinion as to how much difference in taste various woods and blends make (except mesquite). At $5.00 for a bag, I'll give it a try.

As a side note, some companies selling 'food grade' pellets add 'flavour oils' so those apple pellets may not be apple. Others use mostly filler hardwood with some percentage of the wood named on the bag. Caveat emptor, read the bag carefully.

In this instance, you would have to know how the manufactorer defines "food grade".
I wouldn't write off the concept entirely though. Having researched various charcoal brands, i found the Naked Whiz site to have great info in this regard (don't know if they do pellets or just charcoal).
http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lump.htm
From personal experience (and i could toss up some photos of this), i ran some similar comparisons to the Naked Whiz reviews. The charcoal from a Canadian Tire bag of Kingsford was utter crap compared to Dragon's Breath or Maple Leaf.
Chunk sizes were small, more dust and numerous rocks, and even pieces of steel!
So, in regards to 'food grade', the initial evidence lends me to think that Kingsford cheapo bags include literally the scrapings off a floor in a sawhouse or from some outdoor pile of scrap wood.

Aside from that, on a full firebox, the Kingsford would give about 8-10 hours of cooking time (averaging 375F). I got more around 12-16 hours from the other two brands and less ash (needed to vacuum twice with the Kingsford and not at all with the other two brands after the firebox was burned out).


I've read that too.
You really need to know your supplier and what info they provide and how open they are to providing it.
Any company who doesn't want to describe how they source and prep their product is hiding something. You can easily omit proprietary methods while still informing the customer about the rest of the process.

Continuing with the bbq thread, i'm looking at doing some pizzas by end of summer. However we don't have a pizza peel.
Given that the BGE has a grate which doesn't sit level with the edge, it makes sense to get a peel that has a slight bend to the material (e.g. aluminum vs wood), or an angle design built into the actual peel.

Thoughts on these two peels?

http://www.amazon.ca/Kitchen-Supply-14-Inch-16-Inch-Aluminum/dp/B002JPJ0QY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


http://www.amazon.ca/Cuisinart-CPP-413-A...ords=Pizza+Peel

I've no clue about a pizza peel. Never had one before.

I can tell you Pizza on the GMG turns out great! My pizza stone does not fit, so I just laid the pizza directly on the grill and cranked it to 400.

There is one thing above all that I desire in a pizza. Crispy crust, and this one was crispy in spades.

Doesn't hurt that I've put zero heat into my apartment on one of the hottest days of the year either.

The peel is used to move and remove pizzas to and from the cooking appliance. They are long, wide and sometimes have lengthy handles to keep one from burning their hands too close to a 700F pizza oven. You can also keep the pizza stone in the oven for the next incoming pizza (assuming you make more than one at a time) as we always took the stone out with the pizza on top and afterward sliding the pizza off and onto a cutting board.

So far the poll results are telling me to go in one solid direction.


We've done pizza in the oven before in this same way, but the toppings don't come out as nice on the lower temp (can get overcooked) and the dough takes longer to cook sometimes the point of being more dried out. To get freshest toppings with a crispy crust but not dried out in the middle crust, you have to ratchet up the temp (or so i've read from various chef sites).
e.g.
http://www.thekitchn.com/want-the-best-homemade-pizza-you-have-to-turn-up-the-heat-163038

We went to a coal fired pizza place in town not long ago.
Takes about 30s per pizza to cook!
Crispy outside without being the 'break your teeth' kind of crunch, but soft inner crust that was moist.
No 'dip' required for the crusts with this pizza!

I'm using a pre-cooked crust. Most often, by the time I get home, I don't have the patience, energy, or time to make crust from scratch.

My temp was a WAG, but it seems to have worked well.

Our bread maker set up the dough for us so that it is ready when we come home to cook. It is really quite handy for making all types of dough.
I highly recommend one.

I'm going to do pulled pork for a family get together on the weekend.

The plan: 2 4lb boneless pork shoulders for 8-12 people (never know who won't be able to make it). I figure if I plan on starting 12 hours in advance (5:00am start) The pork should be done in time.

I plan on two sauces so nobody is stuck with one they don't like. I'm a big fan of a good mustard sauce, but not everyone is.

If there is room on the grill, I can try some other things like Jalapeno poppers during the day.

Never know how long a 4 pounder can take but you should be OK. If done to early wrap in foil and bath towel then put them in a cooler, they will stay hot for quite some time.

My favorite sauce for pulled pork is a vinegar based Carolina sauce.

I keep reading that every smoker is different and you just have to figure out what yours does.

I'll run it at 250 this time just to make sure. I've got a small cooler that will work just fine if I have to hold it.

I like to switch it up on sauces and like a Carolina sauce fine sometimes. I'm not sure how it would go over with the rest of the family though.

I figure I'll do a more traditional bbq style sauce for the second one.

The grown up mustard sauce is bubbling away as I type.

A 4lb pork shoulder (or Boston butt) at 250F should be about a 8h cook. We've done 6-7lbs and they finished before 10h.
The temperature probe is key. I take mine off at 195F and it usually climbs to no more than 200F while resting.
The equivalent 7lb brisket took about 12h at the same or slightly lower temp (between 225 and 250F).

We are doing ribs either tomorrow or Sunday. I'll nab some photos if the wine bottles don't get in the way.
Going back to the 2-2-1 idea.

I never cook at real low temps, for me it's 240 or 250 for most things except poultry. I never use a meat probe and really don't find it all the necessary. After a while you get a pretty good idea when things are getting done by feel or just using a meat therm like the thermapen.

It was told to me that inserting a probe before the out side of the meat hits 140 degree could introduce bacteria into the inside of the meat. Then with large muscle meat you run the risk of not getting out of the danger zone (40 to 140) in enough time (4 hours).

I agree taking the shoulder to 195 then letting it rest.

I got the PID controller in a week or so ago and had a chance to use it a couple of times. First time out the smoker temps were all over the place. It was +/-30 degree or better. It was driving me nuts wondering what was going wrong. Needless to say I was not a happy camper first time out.

Today I started the smoker at about noon. Loaded it up with charcoal as usual but instead of pouring the hot coals through out it was placed in one spot right by the fan. I set the target temp at 240 but waited to start the controller till it was around 180 or so. At first it over shot the temp by 5 degree then settled in right at the target temp. There was some fluctuation but it was only +/- 2 degree. To say I was happy about that was an understatement.

Decided to throw on a whole chicken so I upped the temp to 280. Once again it over shot by 5 degrees and settled back down to 280 and only fluctuated the same few degrees.

I can see this being a winner if this is this last time is typical of how well it runs.

The lowest i've tried was 215F but it just takes too long to cook. 225F is my bottom now but 250F is usually my target as well.


It is not possible to know by touch when any meat is hitting its proper temperature regardless of what people say.
A thermopen IS a probe. I just leave ours in the meat full time so i don't have to keep opening the lid.


Nonsense. Unless you have a horribly unclean probe with pork blood on it a few days old and ripe, and even then...


I've read anything between 195 and 200F but i tried both and didn't find any difference in tenderness or doneness.

I would rather expect this behaviour Wid.
It is not a controlled oven where minor adjustments to electrical flow can be made. The controller needs to blow air into the chamber to increase the burn rate and then upon feedback of hitting a temp, it slows the air flow. That won't reduce the temps right away though. The overburn from the initial air flow takes time for the oxygen to deplete before falling back and the cooker then takes time to cool off.
Based on my experience with the BigEgg, i have overshot temps and it took a minute or two for the temp to start dropping back once i close down the vents. It could take upwards of 5 to 10 minutes to bring temps down from 450F to say 375 or 400 because the Egg holds its temp so well.

I wouldn't expect those PIDs to maintain a perfect oven precision temperature, but at least more accurate than a human having to check the temp and fiddle with dampers every 10 minutes until the unit settles.

It is not bacteria on the probe but bacteria on the surface of the meat that is being pushed into the meat. Read through the BBQ forums and you we see reference to it.

I prefer to look at science resources for information regarding risks of cooking and methods and avoid repeating what people believe is "common knowledge" touted on forums re: health and science issues. That being said, i'm going to post some science links about that subject ON THESE FORUMS!


What i know of microbiology and innoculation of media provides me with a fairly high certainty that this is not a problem. If anyone got sick from such an occurrence, it is likely more probable causes were not ruled out.

For example, one has to assume that surface bacteria is in sufficient quantity such that a pen tip sized probe can 'push' enough into the centre of the meat such that a person will ingest a quantity sufficient to cause sickness. Animals are capable of withstanding the ingestion of various amounts of bacteria before it makes one feel sick.

Second, the surface of the meat cooks faster than the inside, so killing of surface bacteria has already begun by the time anyone would put a probe into the meat.

Third, what "surface" bacteria are we talking about?
The bacteria most common to beef and chicken are found INSIDE the meat, not just on the surface. Hence, unless someone left their meat out on a counter for two days and something else started to grow, then these poisonings have zero to do with a probe insertion. If something else did grow, then that has little to do with the probe vs. poor food handling.

There are three primary reasons why meat products are cooked to certain temps. Knowing how/why these contaminants become factors in human health will provide any food preparer the knowledge that they need to prepare food safely.

Chicken - Salmonella (all types)
Beef - E.coli (only for processed products)
Pork - Trichinosis

Resources for why people get sick from these factors can be found anywhere, but many myths abound. The bbq forums are NOT good places to confirm facts. I won't go through all three, but can at least focus on pork as one example.

The very reason why people have long been told to cook pork thoroughly have been alleviated with scientific study yet many people still follow the 'old' "common knowledge" to cook pork past pink, min. 160F, etc. (Note that the 160F standard is still the guideline in Canada but the US has lowered theirs as of a few years ago).
Trichinosis are killed in less than 1 min at 140F, and are killed under freezing temperatures (USDA fact sheet).
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/trichinae/docs/fact_sheet.htm
Similar info is posted at the CDC site with more on wild game meats.
http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/prevent.html

As such, any pork you had frozen for a day before eating, you don't have to worry about eating pink and contracting Trichinosis worms. Still, the cooking guideline says to cook to 140F. Using those TWO combined methods, along with the usual "keep your hands and prep surfaces clean", pretty much eliminates any chance of problems with pork unless the meat was bad to begin with. If the pork was left out for bacteria to grow, then even after freezing and cooking, bacterial toxins...Staphylococcus aureus produces a heat stable toxins may be left behind. It wouldn't matter if Staphylococcus only grew on the surface or got pushed into the meat with a probe. That has zero to do with the fact that the heat stable toxin being left behind on any part of the meat is the cause of the sickness. The primary cause is poor food handling and prep.

If i were to guess, i would think unwashed hands is likely one of the largest reasons how people contaminate their home meat during prep.

Here is an article from the CDC about stats on foodborne illnesses from 2011. Note how they actually recommend using a probe in meat to check temperatures.
http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsFoodborneEstimates/

So the upcoming bbq menu is as follows:

Saturday
Grilled chicken breasts with creamy smoked harvarti
on
fresh homemade buns baked on the Big Green Egg!

Grilled Halloumi cheese

Sunday:
The Ribs 2-2-1 tryout

Buttered shrimp on skewers with a smoked chipotle mayo and lime dip

IMO, phobias about your common, everyday bacteria are as irrational as phobias about spiders, ha...

TAM

Lot's of people recommend Soaking all meats in vinegar first then rinse and season as desired.

That's the funny thing about E.coli.
We all have it in our own bodies in our digestion tracts yet swallowing it makes us sick!

(Yes there is more to the story).

At least the vinegar will begin to break down tissues and soften the meat.
If bacteria are already growing though, they can penetrate the tissues and toxins can still diffuse into the meat. You cannot soak rotting meat in vinegar and then assume all is well to eat.
Food prep (thawing properly) matters.

Sorry I was assuming you guy are using fresh products as apposed to expired.

How many restaurants have tricked you with the same thing?

A vinegar wash for ribs works quite nice, gives the ribs a bit of tang.

I like to slobber apple cider vinegar on meat, give it a few minutes, then dust it with salt and a dry rub. Sit over night, cook at room temp the following day.

So when you guys cook your birds, do you cut out the back bone and lay them out, or just cook them?

That sounds like a lot of work.
I just toss it on the grill.

I do it both ways but mostly just throw it on whole

Even that gets boring after a while.

So, the smoke went really well. The two sauces were appreciated. Most people absolutely loved the adult mustard sauce, but both got complements, ie: way better than store bought.

I was up at shortly before 5 and the two shoulders were on at 5:15am. I could not bring myself to put the temp all the way up to 250 so I settled on a compromise of 240. The shoulders took the full 12 hours to cook.

Only 8 people ended up coming, so there was lots of left over meat. I know what I'm having for supper tonight.

Chess. Thanks for the PHD dissertation on bacteria and meats. I did not know trichinosis was killed by freezing. I tend to agree with you about what is posted on public forums. In a lawsuit-happy world, I suspect much of it is there as a legal disclaimer, but that is lost on many people.

Rick. I'm glad that PID is working out for you. I suspect getting the programming right for a pid and how it controls the fan and temperature overshoot is not that simple. My unit fluctuates by up to 5 degrees either side of the set point, but is mostly within +/- 2 degrees.

Mr. GodPants. I'm glad I could inject a little meaning into your life.

12 hours and these were for 4lb pound shoulders? That is a ton of time for a four pound chunk of meat but it sounds like they came out quite succulent.

As I sit here listening to some classic Pursuit of Happiness, our ribs have been in the Big Green Egg for 3 hours now with two hours left to go. The last time I took a peek at them before putting them into foil they look absolutely drippy!

Pics later if I can at all remember.
We have been trying to get rid of some coconut rum for a while now. So I am working on a drink recipe involving 7up, coconut rum, and amaretto...

I almost forgot. Smoked lemonade is a thing.

In a conventional BBQ do you guys recommend slow cooking dry rubbed baby backs off of the burners? I tried a batch this weekend (inspired by this darn thread) and they were a tad overdone with the three burners as low as they would go.... The min temp I could maintain with all burners on low was ~400F

Anyone cook on the off side of the que?

That's why I don't like to eat out so often, Plus many of the more posh places have always disappointed me. Steak houses and the likes Rave reviews. But when you eat it end up thinking of why and how it could have been better on the Barby, more garlic and so on. My younger sisters even used to work at one.

I do use indirect heat on my grill when I'm using the rotisserie and when I'm doing steaks.

Good to hear the shoulders came out nice Fred. Ya can never tell how long the meat will take. Next time a 4 pound shoulder might take a lot less time, ya never can tell.

The post that Chess wrote was very good reading and made me rethink some of what I thought was fact. Thanks for that Chess.

Now, how were those ribs?

Yep
400f is away too high.
Indirect cooking so!thew way!!!?..

Soorrrry lads!way too into winnes to reply with photosss this evening.
Wulll reply tomorrow
In the meantime chekc out the wicked bass on the Albatrouz song!!
M60s rock the crap outta that rsong!!!

I'll have what he's having.

At this point, its probably hangover he's having.

Must have been a bad one

For low & slow you usually want one burner on low and the rest off, food well away from the burner. Let 'em sit and think about life for a few hrs then when they seem sufficiently tender sauce 'em and turn all the burners up to caramelize a bit.

That said, my little sister (yeah, she's in her 50s now but still my little sister) makes great ribs by simmering them in a pot of water for a while and a few minutes on a gas bbq. Doesn't work for me, I need 4-6 hrs and charcoal. Then again my ribs taste better, if I say so myself

Cool guys thanks. We're having friends over we havent seen in a while soon, and he is a rib-a-holic. Cant beat baby backs! Yum.

I would love an Egg, but until then: Left side burner on high, all other burners off. It hovers right around 225 until the chips catch fire. Still working on that one.....

Finished product:

DROOL!

Very nice.

Awesome Shawn. On my old two burner, I could never get the temperature that low.

Tonight's experiment is Porchetta style pork loin.

Loins were on sale, so I bought a big one to use mostly for cold meat for lunches.

Poking around I found a recipe for Porchetta, which I understand is usually done with pork belly.

I took the loin (quite fatty), spiral cut it and spiced it with paprika, sage, rosemary, mustard powder and fresh garlic. I then rolled it back up, scored that fat side on it and wrapped the exposed meat side with bacon.

We'll see how it turns out.

Fred, that sounds SO good!! Let me know when it's done and I'll be over.
How did it turn out? Pictures?

Well, it could be a while. Something's not right with the grill. It stalled out three times. Seems to be working now, but it appears that the grill temp probe was not communicating with the control board properly for a while.

Suppers a tad late tonight.

On the upside, it should be nice and smokey by the time its done.

Results from last nights smoke/roast were mixed. By 9:45 I'd had enough and I pulled the roast off the grill at an internal temp of 145F.

The flavour was great, but the roast, particularly because it had a lot of fat, should have been cooked a bunch more. I just could not wait any longer.

I learned something new today. Clean the grease drip system before firing up the grill at high temps. I fired it up to do some sausages today and had a bit of a flame up.

The good news is the sausages were nice and crispy on the outside.

I'm going to do some trouble shooting tomorrow to see if I can replicate the issues from last night..

Its been a while since I posted any food porn.

Dinner on the right, lunch meat on the left:


Mmmmm, pork tenderloin, garlic smashed potatoes and broccoli with a cheddar cheese sauce.

I did finally figure out what my issue was, or at least partially. After talking to support from Green Mountain, they agreed to send me a new board.

A day later, I remembered something I had read on the internets about making sure you clean the temp sensor. It's strange that GMG does not mention this anywhere in their documentation. I checked and boy does that thing pick up soot. Cleaning it has mostly cleared up the problem, but its still not quite right.

I was also having trouble hooking the smoker up to my wifi, so I'm going to swap in the new board and see if that makes things as good as new.

In the mean time, I've been busy with my new toy. Made pizza again and its great, burgers were meh (doesn't sear properly), and meatloaf that tastes like, well, meatloaf, but I had to try at least once Actually it was nice not to heat up the apartment with an oven on a hot day.

I finally did a pork butt properly today, pulling it at 195F. It pulled nicely and the meat was 'melt in your mouth' tender.

This thing is awesome!

What temp did you cook that butt at? How long did it take?

I tried smoking giant zucchini a couple weeks ago. Not sure if I like smoked zucchini..... I wanted a light smoke, so I used some maple pellets, which at the time were the lightest smoke pellets I had. I would not recommend them. Very distinct flavor. Not sure if I liked Maple at that point.

My last smoke was a few large chicken breasts. Again, I wanted light smoke, so I tried the maple pellets again. Setpoint used was 300F, and I used the meat probe with the meat temp set to 160F, so it could internally cook to reach the recommended temp of 165F.

Worked perfectly. The chicken was so moist, a friend of mine got squirted in the eye by juice when he went to cut a slice off the breast. The maple smoke however.....again, I don't think I'm a fan of maple.

So last weekend I bought a few bags of different wood pellets. Pecan, Alder, Chery, Apple and a mix. Looking forward to trying each.

Fred, where did you buy that GMG? I can't find any dealers in Ontario.

Thanks

Just read this great, very thorough (long) article about pellet smokers. The information in the comment section is extremely valuable, too.

What Everyone Should Know Before Buying Pellet Smokers

They don't seem to have much of a dealer network set up in Canada. I found two people in Ontario advertising through Kijiji. On of them is in Ingersoll I believe.

Here you go:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-bbq-outdoor-cooki...gationFlag=true

There is a storefront dealer in Barrie.

Sweet!

Thanks so much.

Glad I could help.

That there is a collection of words I never expected to see used together

I want to be part of the 'internet of because you can'.

I'm not sure yet that being able to monitor my smoker from my smartphone really has any value, but I wanted to give it a whirl.

It is pretty neat, have to admit that.

Right now I think my top priority is getting some kind of roof over the smoking/grilling area.

You know all those areas complaining about drought ? Their rain is here if they want to come and pick it up.

Awesome, Fred. I'm enjoying your cooking, and your success has definitely made me look closely at getting a pellet smoker.

Thanks Tom. I'm having a lot of fun with this thing.

Bridgeman. Mine is nicely under a roof on my balcony so I can enjoy it no matter the weather.

I’m irritated……

I’ve used my ex-father-in-law’s brisket cooking technique on numerous occasions and it ALWAYS turns out fantastic. He’s an old Texan and uses a side arm type, indirect charcoal / wood grill. His brisket is quite famous around here, and he’s always volunteering (asked to cook it) at events. Real simple too. Charcoal with Mesquite wood chips. 225F temp. Lots of salt and pepper, and he squeezes fresh lime juice on it from time to time while cooking and turning it over every half hour or so. He would pull it off the grill at about 165, or thereabouts, let it rest a bit and slice it up. Nothing written in stone on the temp ("It's done when it’s done" is what he’d say)…. So yesterday I tried following internet recommendations that I kept seeing. Pretty much every ‘smoker’ recipe said to smoke it at 210 – 220 until it reached 165 internal. Then wrap it tightly in foil, and continue cooking at 225-250 till it reached 180+, or two hours minimum. Something about it reaching 165 and “stalling”, and that it needed to cook longer wrapped tightly or it would just get dry.

I tried this new technique and it came out dry. Right at the two hours mark it reached 180, and I then let it rest for 30 minutes (as recommended). There must have been a cup of juice in the foil. I used hickory pellets, and the smoke flavor was great, but it was dry. Tender, but dry. Screw that technique. I’m sticking to the old man’s technique of just turning it and cooking it “till it’s done”. Anyone else have better luck than I did?

I haven't tried brisket yet. From what I've read, its hard to get it right.

One thing I notice is that your ex-father in law cooked to 165 vs the 180 recommended to you by others. That will make a huge difference in moisture content of the meat.

I also wonder if your thermometer is reading high.

When smoking brisket I smoke it at 250 and go till the internal temp is at 195 to 200. Don't know how a temp of 165 works but evidently it does for him.

Let it rest at least an hour in a cooler, a bit longer at times. Some time I foil sometimes I don't but it always comes out real juicy.

I think smoking it at 210-220 is to low and more like a dehydrator.

How big was the brisket ? Both I and friends have tried smoking smaller briskets (a few pounds) and it's a totally hair-trigger exercise where "dry and gnarly" is the natural state.

My first brisket (a full-sized flat+point) was awesome and people still talk about it occasionally. Everything since then has been considerably less awesome, although they were generally much smaller chunks of meat.

The "stalling" thing is apparently connective tissue transmogrifying into gelatin and other yummy things, and certainly helps, but the challenge AFAICS is that you have two parallel activities going on -- conversion of connective tissue and drying out of everything else.

I need to follow up with the F-I-L and make sure I am remembering the temp. He doesn't use a temp probe, but just pokes whatever it is he's grilling to tell if it's done or not.

It was about five pounds. Choice cut.

I'll continue to experiment. I'll try 250 next time. I'm smoking hole chickens this next weekend. I love this smoker. It's pretty freaking cool.

From my limited experience, I suspect his internal temp is higher than 165. At 165 your connective tissue would not be broken down yet. That has been my experience with the pork butts I've done. Only the last one that I pulled at 195 was fully melt in your mouth tender.

I would not want to do a lean cut to that temperature though. My last pork tenderloin was done to 165 and, while it was still moist, it was on the edge. It is much better at 155 (well, whatever 155 really is on my temp probe).

It's amazing to me that different cuts need to be cooked so differently to get them tender and tasty. I did not realize the chemistry that is involved in cooking meats with a lot of connective tissue.

Yeah, Fred is right saying that 165 is far to low to break down all the connective tissues. Try a big ol 12 to 14 pound packer brisket with plenty of fat in it.

When you touch a brisket that is done, it should feel like jello. That just won't happen at 165, I guaranty you that.

Rick. How long would you smoke a 12 pounder for?

In general I find it much easier to cook larger chunks of meat to a desired internal temp. All that mass seems to slow down cooking at the critical points.

I'd be looking at a 12 to 14 hour smoke.

So not much more than the 4 lb butts I've been doing. I may give brisket a go the next time family heads out my way.

Yeah, those are hard to get right. Seems like it would be big enough, but...

AFAICS smaller cuts dry out faster than larger ones but the conversion of connective tissue to gelatin or whatever doesn't seem to go any faster.

Best read I have found so far seems to be...

http://amazingribs.com/recipes/beef/texas_brisket.html

... which even includes an interesting theory about why the "stall" happens -- moisture coming out of the meat and evaporatively cooling it after a certain temperature range. I suspect that isn't the entire answer (conversion of connective tissue probably absorbs some energy too or we would all be driving brisket-powered cars if only for the exhaust smell) but it helps to explain why foiling early saves so much time.

For those who are interested, I've gone through about 3/4 of a bag of the inexpensive pellets now. I have to say that I have not noticed any real difference in flavour from the 'Special Blend' pellets I got with my smoker.

At 1/8th of the price, I know what I'm using going forward, particularly given that I've gone through a good 50 lb so far. A quick calculation tells me I would save $250 a year going this route. Say, that's 15 bottles of really nice wine.

... or 35 bottles of plonk.

Next, I want to try some pure pellets like Hickory to see if I can taste any difference.

I've used Traeger pellets and Gourmet BBQ brand pellets. Both work just fine in the smoker. No real difference between the two. I bought several bags of the Gourmet brand at a sports store that sells grill, called "The Sportsman's Warehouse". I bought them because they had the type of wood I was wanting to try, and cost. They were $13 for a 20 pound bag. The Traeger pellets were $20 for a 20 pound bag.

The type of wood does make a difference. Big difference. I don't know about the blends, but can confirm completely different flavor imparted to the meat with different wood types.

I do not like Maple. It just tastes weird to me.

Mesquite is strong. Tastes great with chicken.

Hickory seems to go with beef. Mesquite does too, but I think I like hickory a bit better. I want to try Pecan next time.

Pecan is good with pork. I've also tried cherry and that was OK. I also tried a 50/50 blend of cherry and pecan, and that was really good.

Interesting. My aging pallet probably doesn't help. I guess I need to experiment. I'll keep going with the cheap stuff for every day use though.

What are the 'cheap' pellets you are using Fred? If they are food grade? If they don't burn too fast, and don't have a glue binder, I don't see why you'd want or need to go more expensive.... I think the type of wood is more important than price. I suppose some cheap pellets may not be compressed as much, so they might burn quicker?

I'm gunna smoke a couple chickens today. I plan to use a mix of Mesquite and Apple, with a honey bourbon glaze towards the end of the smoke (saw this on a cooking show: Southern at Heart).

You old hippie.

I used to hate buying a dime bag and finding it was all beaks and feet.

I've used just about any hardwood you can think of. Both as an additive to charcoal and straight up wood only. I can't say I have ever noticed a difference in taste.

Anymore I use what ever is free and available at the time.

Mark, those stems and seeds that you don't need---
back in 67 a dime bag was just a match box!
/Jeff

I haven't had much time to post lately; still don't.
Been following this thread as it comes in email though.
My quick thoughts for you michaeld (have i ever led you astray?):

That link bridgman put up is fantastic info. I either posted it before or someone has since spread it around because i've had that webpage for several years now in my recipe box.
Follows those directions for brisket and you will be fine.

A person CANNOT tell when a piece of meat hits a certain temp.
They can only guess based on weight, temp and time. A temp probe is more accurate and takes away any guessing. I usually do my slow cooks around 250F. You can use lower temps but it is unnecessary and just takes longer to cook. Above 275F (upper 300F max) and your meat cooks too fast on the outside compared to the inside.

Yes, use a "Texas crutch" at the stall point around 150F-160F. It will help get the temps up more quickly past the stall and cut down the cooking time, plus retain moisture! The meat should have enough fat to keep it moist in the crutch, but we usually put a half cup of beer or apple juice in a pan, add a short grill, place the brisket on the grill, then wrap the whole pan tight with foil. This is WAY better than having to baste the brisket all day long to keep it moist. The pro bbq guys on tv usually have so many chunks of meat in their cookers, they don't need to add more moisture in the system, but a piece of meat alone in a large enough unit can start to dry out.
Ribs are the same way. If you don't foil them and cook them longer than 2 hours, pffft.
Dry cracked ribs is what you get.

Cook the brisket the rest of the way to 195F. Some same 200F but i found the brisket started to dry out when we pushed the last one longer.

Take out and let sit 'tented' or in an ice cooler (without the ice).
The temp will climb a bit on its own at this point before cooling down.
Afterward follow that link's info on how to cut a brisket properly!
There are two parts to a brisket and you want to be cutting against the muscle grain.

I've done two briskets now, greenhorn off the bat and both were excellent. Just followed those directions.

Woods definitely carry different flavours, but they can be subtle. Hickory and mesquite, not so subtle.
Maple does kind of need a certain meat to make it work (salmon for example).
Maple blends are nice though; not as sharp as hickory or mesquite.

Will try to post some food pron when i have time. Got some good pics of ribs this summer and brisket last summer on the Big Green Egg.
I also have a pic of myself drinking beer while smoking a pork butt in -30C. My beer was freezing faster than i could drink it.

Got another bbq tomorrow at a friend's place.
Likely the last of the summer days as last night dropped to 2C here.
Fall is a comin.

Thanks for the info Chess.

And Mark, not a smokers are hippies.

I can't stand the Amazing ribs web site. Not the content, but the never-ending bombardment of trying to get you to donate or buy something. I've grown quite tired of internet sales.

I'll read the article anyway. sigh....

The two chickens I smoked yesterday came out phenomenal. Super juicy, great flavor, nice crisp skin.... yummmmmm

I used a 50/50 blend of mesquite and apple wood pellets. Cooked them at 225 for about 3 hours till the breast was 170. Mixed honey and bourbon and slobbered that over the birds about two hours into the smoke. Cut some thick slices of sweet white onion, and poured the honey glaze over them with a dust of cayenne pepper, and through them in the smoker for an hour too. The onions turned out to be quite tasty. I'm going to keep experimenting with them.

Oops, quoted old post...

Food grade means its being marketed to you by a pellet smoker company at a higher price.


It burns the same as the expensive pellets and costs me $5.50 per 40lb bag. Works for me.

That sounds very tasty.

I'm going to experiment with injecting the spices into my lunch meat this go round. Cutting into the meat and wrapping it is a pain and makes it much harder to slice when cooked.

I may try the same with my next butt to see if I can get a bit more of the spice flavour to come through into the meat. I'll be careful not to use too much spice though as I don't want to fundamentally change the flavour, just enhance it a little.

BBQ - time to upgrade;

I have finally decided to put the Canadian Tire 13 year old propane bbq to rest this fall, it was long over due. After some research over the net I’ve decided on GMG but need an advice on the following;

1) stainless cover or not ( disliked the last stainless bbq, always had to spend so much time to make it look stainless- btw I never cook outside come winter time)

2) Daniel Boone or Jim Bowie model ( we are only 2 ¼ people at home if you count the little yapper but flexibly for putting bigger items like pizza and also when invites show up)

3) Remote or Wifi or nothing (wi-fi option seems more of a gadget but the remote seems an interesting option for the price)

Unless the stainless lid is more durable, I would not bother, particularly because you want to keep it looking nice and shiny.

Wifi is not particularly useful for me as it is less than a dozen steps to the balcony to see what's going on in the smoker if I need to look. Hmm, other than firmware updates that is.

I was able to do smoked butts for 10 on my little Davey Crocket and could have managed another 4 lb butt without difficulty. You can always buy a rack for ribs for a larger crowd.

I would think the Daniel Boon would be plenty large enough. Measure the size of your pizza pan to see if that size will fit in the Boon. If I want to do Pizza from scratch, I'm going to have to find a square stone that fits my little Davey because my current stone is 3" too large.

One thing to note is that you probably won't want to grill steaks of burgers on the pellet grill. It just doesn't sear well enough. I'm keeping my inexpensive kettle grill for this.

Correct, but they can tell how done a piece of meat is.

I have no trouble grilling tenderloin by feel. Now, if I changed to another cut of steak, I'd be in trouble.

When you cook something often enough (and with the same equipment), you can get a very good feel for how done it is by various sensory inputs.

Thanks for the Info FredK, the wifi option seems to have a few glitches and the only accessories I can see using is the exhaust cap http://greenmountaingrills.com/shop/chimney-cap/ & the bbq cover, don’t know why they didn’t make this cap standard

How well done it is and its appx. interior temperature are pretty much the same thing, right? I was a restaurant whore for long enough to see chefs press an index finger or thumb on it, only, even though there was a thermometer clipped to their coat pocket. How they could keep track of different donenesses of so many things at once always impressed me.

I would like to complement my setup with this...

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.ca/store/pro...CFYUUHwodXl0Jmw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR2D7dN2LbU

Do you know how many pounds of bacon you could cook on that thing?! Awesome! AND, you won't leave the house smelling like bacon, but outside will for a mile or so.

Same here. I'm good for about two steaks at a time.

There are a few factors which if things never change then yes, one can use 'senses' to determine relatively closely a doneness level, but it will still never be as accurate as a temp probe and it would only be possible for less thick cuts (i.e. steaks, chops but not roasts, briskets or chicken).

In a restaurant, those factors are maintained alot more consistently such that a chef can know 2 min per side equals a rare steak which they have cut equally for every portion to be 8 oz and 1.5 inches thick, on a grill exactly at 375F, all sirloin tip from the same source batch, etc. etc.

Just a few factors affecting consistency of cooking 'by eye' that inevitably cause more failures (under or over cooked) than using a probe:

• alcohol consumption - greatly distorts a person's concept of time, makes them forget to watch the bbq for temps
• company over - chatting makes one forget length of times for bbq'uing (i have used a pen and paper in the past to write down times something was placed on the Q so at least i could calculate how much time had past)
• moisture and recipes - try bbq'ing a pork chop and then with an identical cut that was perhaps marinated for an hour or even better, a brined solution --> VASTLY increased time to reach proper internal temp
• moisture and environment - this varies by region and will have a lesser overall effect on cooking but primarily due to altitude - water and hence moisture in whatever you put on the bbq, boils at different temps based on altitude. Short explanation here:
  http://culinaryarts.about.com/od/culinaryfundamentals/a/highaltcooking.htm
• season - cooking in winter takes longer especially depending on how reliable your bbq is for maintaining heat; most propane bbq'es are notorious for having 'holes' in which air blowing through causes temps to swing literally second to second thereby increasing cooking times vs a closed unit such as a smoker or a Japanese kamado style unit
• As previously mentioned, # of items on the bbq at one time doesn't help. 6 steaks, some want them rare, some well done...you need to start some earlier, some later and time them all to get them to come off so people can eat at the same time. Then kids have burgers, different cooking time than steaks...it gets complicated without a written list of drop times.

Lately i've started using a probe to cook pork chops (min. 1 inch thick b/c the fast fry ones are impossibly thin to use a probe) to get the temps exactly at 140F. Beyond that, chops get dry real fast esp. on leftover nights.
Blech.

Oh.

LMFAO!

Too funny Bob.

Chess. My objection is to the absolute mantras one finds on bbq sites: "You can't..."

Michael D's FIL most definitely can, even if he does not really know what the actual temperature is. It is a skill he has refined over many years.

Now if you were to say "It is very difficult..." I would agree. I don't plan to abandon my thermometer (which is probably out by at least 5 degrees in one direction or the other) any time soon.

Oh yeah, injecting a spiced slurry proved a little challenging, but worked very well to flavour my smoked pork loin lunch meat. Pulverizing fresh garlic is much harder than it should be.

I use temp probes for pork and birds. Not beef. Never really have, till I got this smoker. With pork and birds, I would use the probe to make sure folks didn't get sick. Fish, never use a probe. I just cook it till it can flake with a fork. For beef, it will feel different as it goes from rare to leather. When slow cooking, I think it's more important, because you're not there monitoring it while it grills. When I grill a steak, I am there at all times.

Sorry Fred but i stick with "you can't" because no human can.
If we could tell temps by looking at meat, we wouldn't have built probes.

However, your earlier comments echo my sentiments:

We just have to quantify "done" and "what meat".

I can cook a brisket for 72 hours at 400F and be able to say "hey, i KNOW it's done".
What i'm saying is that no bbq pro ever knows unless they use a probe, what the internal temp is even though they could say the meat is "done". Done to what extent?

Even on the bbq pro shows, some will say "oh i think it went a bit long" or "this needs more time but we only have 10 minutes to plating", etc. while others are sticking the probes in all the time.

Now for type of meat, sure, i don't think anyone needs a probe for a regular frying steak or even tenderloins (although the latter usually are thick enough to use a probe effectively). I go by general time and temp and judge the thickness for doneness, but only with steak.

I agree with michael_d that for birds and pork, i want to know exactly when i've hit the safe temp and keep the meat from going much beyond. Both can start to get dry, especially pork.
For big cuts like brisket and pulled pork, again an absolute must or a person is just guessing. A few times i figured our pulled pork was done, 5 pounder, 250F average most of the day, 8 hours i figured it should be ready... the thing took 11 hours to hit temp!

Fish, nah.
Cook till lightly flaky.

Experience may decrease the odds of guessing wrong, but a probe is right 100% of the time!
I bought a rather high quality probe some time ago (+/-0.5 degrees).
Yay science!

"If we could tell temps by looking at meat, we wouldn't have invented probes," said the alien "gray," just before Chess blacked out.

One thing about using a probe though, is it needs to be stuck in the correct area of the 'thing' you happen to be cooking, and not too far in or too far out….. I've fought with this many times. Thinking you have reached the correct temp, to only cut into the bird or slab of meat to find it raw or overdone.

And as I read that, not really knowing how to rephrase it, to not get a sexually orientated response from Bob or Mark…..

I was thinking more along the lines of an Alien remark....

Like, totally.

I have seen and heard some of the kinkiest of things and nowhere, ever, did anyone ever consider anything about an alien probe to any part of their body to be sexual.

Well, OK, one time, but they were both aliens, so I discounted it. OK, so one was a resident alien. Jeez, OK, they were both resident aliens, but I wasn't aware of how average Algerians behave.

Bob. How cooked was Chess at the last Axiom gathering (no probe required).

Stop shoving it in so deep!
You're banging bone!

LOL

Touché!

And as i think back, was Fred there????
LOL

Fred, he'll probably claim that without scientific measuring equipment, no one could know for sure exactly how toasted he was. Sorry, Chess. There were way too many experts there who didn't need devices to be precise(s).

The only reason he didn't face-plant, is that you can't do that when you've fallen on your ass first and can't get up to fall again.

And of course, Cam should have done both, but can't do either, so he's good.

You guys are nuts....

Where's Doc?

Those two? Definitely. I'm gonna miss them at this Saturday's festivities.

I didn't face plant.
I remember that much.
I did forget half my steak in Ray's car, or was it Jack's?
And who had the wheelchair that i was bumper shining?
I do remember it was Sonic who shoved me down into the splits. She takes all the blame for that. That had NOTHING to do with me directly, that i recall.
There was something vague about riding the bull on a boathouse pole though...and then i woke up with black marker all over me...

BUT Peter was the one sniffing wires!!

Them was good times!

I sooo wanted to write, "Kick Me" on the back, but I was afraid you'd think it was ruined and then wouldn't wear it in public.

Wow. How much had Cam been drinking? Just look at the signature!

I did my first scratch pizza tonight to see if more time in the pellet grill would give more of a wood fired taste. I think it did, my son was not so sure, so the jury is out on that one.

On a workday night, its sure not worth the extra 45 minutes of prep time. I'll give it another go on a weekend. Hmm, I should try smoking some bacon the next time I do a pork butt. That would make a tasty addition to any pizza.

On another note, it looks like I'm burning through 40lb of pellets a month at my current use rate.

For scratch pizza (or bread) it's worth making dough balls up in advance and keeping them in fridge/freezer to be pulled out as needed. A couple of extra days in the fridge seems to make the dough tastier as well. Not sure about the pellet grill but the dough warms up from the fridge as fast as the oven can preheat so it ends up as almost zero extra time.

Well finally got a GMG daniel boone with wifi to go along with my new Blackstone 36 inch griddle, can't wait for next summer to fire up these badboys...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5N1M2tkE2E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh-Omm2h91U

I got a meat smoking book for my birthday. Just started reading it... It's good enough to recommend.

Franklin Barbecue: A Meat-Smoking Manifesto Hardcover – April 7, 2015

Written by Aaron Franklin, the guy in Auston who has lines down the street every day at his place. Won best BBQ in Texas.

Great book so far. Not a recipe book, but instructional and informative on everything from building a smoker, to selecting meat and type of wood. No mention of pellet smokers, and mainly wood. Great instructions on cooking a brisket.

http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-Barbecue-...ds=franklin+bbq

I'm going to be in Austin in a couple weeks for a conference and have been told I'll be shunned if I don't eat Franklin's.

Don't worry, we'll shun you even if you do.

If you are ever looking for a GMG dealer, go see Thomas from Maxzim http://www.maxzimmaple.com/green-mountain-pellet-smokergrills.html they are the best when it comes to customer service with these grills. Had nothing but good answers to all my gazillion questions and he had the best attitude from all the GMG dealers in Ontario I called, he also gave me a ton of pointers like the frog mats ect ...

That's where I bought my grill. I dealt with his wife and was similarly impressed (not to be confused with similarly good) with the level of service.

I'm still thrilled with my grill.

Yes, Fred, your experience was really transformational for me. I had been pretty noncommittal about pellet smokers (owing primarily to the mixed reaction of locals to Traegers), but your outstanding GMG adventure has me lustily pondering getting a partner for my Weber.

I don't think you would regret the purchase Tom.

The only negative thing I'll say about my GMG is that it is not all that temperature stable. It seems to wander up and down by 50ish degrees, though that does not show directly on the digital display. Sneaky buggers at gmg stop updating the temp on the display when it goes past the set temp. I have no idea if that really affects flavour or not.

I don't know if more expensive units like the MAK are more temperature stable.

Anyway, for the money I'm very satisfied

A 50 degree temp swing is pretty huge. I can get my Weber smokey Mountain to maintain with only slight temp fluctuations. I doubt it hurts the flavor though.

Nope.
Just cooking time.

May as well be the official thread no?

Buy good quality charcoal.
It DOES make a difference.
Check out the Cdn Tire junk brand and all the lovely junk you actually find inside.
Some tasty steel... mmmmm, and large rocks... yumm.

More bbq pron.

I promised to post some Big Green Egg prepared meals awhile back and i finally got some pics uploaded.

Various dates and various meals that included ribs, moose meat hamburgers and brisket.

My MAK stays within 5deg. I love this thing. Smoked a prime rib for t-day. It turned out fantastic.

So far i'm not seeing any pictures....

It is pretty big, but it does not seem to affect cooking times or flavour that I can tell. My times for the various things I've smoked roughly match what others experience for a given temperature.

There is no way I would have spent twice as much or more to try out smoking, so the GMG has worked out very well for me.

Chess, those BGE smokes look good. If I had the money, I'd probably still go for a BGE. Nothing beats it for versatility.

Depends on how long this 50 degree swing is maintained.

The BGE has been excellent but i gotta say there are a few things i would like different.
The Primo grills are oval in shape which in a lot of ways makes way more sense. Aside from burgers, how many things do you put on a round grill that fit really well?
Ribs, brisket, all fit way better on an oval or rectangular setup.

Price is another consideration. The quality is excellent for sure, but i've read many good things about the Big Steel Keg which sells for less.
Accessories could be a bit more reasonably priced as well. I feel like we pay Sony prices for the bbq if anything is stamped BGE on it.
We actually bought the BGE charcoal at the start and decided at $30/bag it was too expensive. The Cdn Tire Royal Oak sucks and is too low quality (lowest priced at $12/bag too).
The Maple Leaf has been our favorite so far but next time i'm going to try out the Weekend Warrior i think.

That Keg looks pretty good, I had forgotten about it. I didn't even know about it until after I picked up the GMG. Still outside my price range for a first time test drive.

Can't go wrong either way IMO. Right Tom?

Thomas from Maxzim wrote this >

I also spoke with Fred from axiom chat forum. He loves his Davy Crockett, but they do overshoot temperatures when warming up. The larger grills don't of course.

Fred my Daniel Boone hold temps very well without any problems... no overshoot at all, hope this helps

Oooh look! I gots new probe. Now, where should I put it?

I decided to stick with boring and put in in my smoker.

I've been meaning to pick up a secondary digital thermometer for a while now just to verify what temp. my smoker is really running at. I had read on several bbq forums that the manufacturer supplied thermometers could be out by varying amounts.

To check that I picked up a Thermoworks DOT. It seems to have a good rep for reliability and accuracy. I checked last night and my DOT shows 109 at the boiling point, so it reads 3 degrees low.

I'm happy to say that the thermometer in my smoker is quite accurate. In fact, a little closer to true temp than my DOT. I set the meat probe on the grill and watched the two during the smokers start up. The GMG temp. consistently showed 2 degrees warmer than my DOT, so it is only 1 degree out from true temp. If you actually adjust for altitude (1000 ft.) its bang on!

So, what's going on in the GMG is interesting and suggests some clever engineering. The temperatures reported by the cooking chamber probe range quite a bit more than the air temperature at the grill.

I did my test at a 195 F set temperature. The outside air was at 52 F (damned tropical for this time of year!!)

The Chamber probe ranged as much as 50 degrees between cycles while the max air temp swing was 20 degrees with most cycles varying around 7 degrees.

One thing the geek in me noticed is that there were temperature swings even when the grill was not feeding pellets and the largest temperature swing was during a pellet feed cycle.

[FullGeekOn]
I have been wondering how they figure out the proper feed rates for pellets given that you could be running this grill in anything from sub zero to very hot days. My guess is that they do that by monitoring the chamber probe as they vary fan cycles. As long as there are pellets in the chamber they use changes in fan speed to bring the temperature back up when it falls below a certain level.

If that does not work and the temp keeps dropping, the auger starts feeding pellets and the fan kicks up a notch or two until the temperature starts to rise.

It is during the pellet feed cycles that the larger swings happen.

I'm guessing you could actually infer outside temperature (80F vs -15 F) by the rate of change at the chamber probe during heating cycles and vary your feed rate. I don't know if that would actually be needed though.
[/GeekOff]

Long story short, it appears that the temperature variation is actually much less than I thought with a max swing of 20 F during only some of the heating cycles and most swings below 10 F.

You were waiting for a reply and were not patient enough to hear the potential responses in due time.
Oh so many possibilities here Fred...

This is not unexpected Fred and i believe your assessment is fairly accurate. In any 'feedback' system in which i've designed tests over the years, this is how they work.
Parameter falls to certain threshold and feedback system reacts by pumping resources in to bring the parameter back above the threshold.
How quickly and accurately it does this is certainly the key.

Nice to know though that your system is more accurate than you thought. A 50F swing in temps is alot depending on how long this situation exists. Knowing that the swing is even less is a real plus.
Definitely a bit of a drawback with a pellet fed system i suppose.

On the FYI front, we are considering doing a brisket for a New year's dinner, along with a fondue components.
Of course the brisket would be done on the BGE all day long so if we go that route, i'll post pics over the day on the progress.

Unlike a few winters ago when i was outside doing a pulled pork butt, my beer was freezing in the -30C weather, whereas this year we're sitting at a balmy -5C on average so far in December.
It should be a bit more pleasant to step outside and check the beef basting in progress.

Double post

yeah, I couldn't wait any longer to play with my probe.


You are right of course. I'm just surprised by how much the thermometer temperature varies from the internal temp. I would have thought that it would run much closer, but maybe probe isolation must be a difficult design challenge to overcome.

Nice to know though that your system is more accurate than you thought. A 50F swing in temps is alot depending on how long this situation exists. Knowing that the swing is even less is a real plus.
Definitely a bit of a drawback with a pellet fed system i suppose.

Its stupid warm right now. Pretty much the polar opposite of last year.

I'm actually thinking of doing a prime rib on the smoker.

Still doing new stuff on the smoker. Did a whole beef tenderloin for Christmas dinner that turned out absolutely amazingly tender (go figure).

I also tried smoked, then grilled vegies: an hour on the smoker and a short grill on the bbq to finish. Portabello marinated with Worchestershire sauce, eggplant marinated in balsamic vinegar and basil, red onion topped with nothing other than a little butter when it went into the smoker, plain red pepper. I gave all except the onion a brush with olive oil before putting in the smoker to keep them moist.

The onion turned out fantastic this way. I don't think you can screw up portabello mushrooms, they were excellent. The eggplant turned out a little dry/leathery, so I need to slice thicker or add more oil. Still tasty though and were really good on a sandwich with smoked pork loin (lunch stuff).

I still love this thing. Have a pork shoulder smoking right now.

How shall I flavour thee? Let me count the ways. One... two... three...

The salmon is marinating in a teriaki marinade with lime, fresh ginger and sesame oil. This should be good.

This week's lunch meat gets a middle eastern treatment with a mix of cumin, coriander, ginger, cinnamon, cardamon, allspice, pepper and cloves.

This one is definitely a keeper. The ginger is front and center without being overpowering with the teriaki, smoke and sesame flavours being much more muted/blended.

Well done chef.

Why thank you...

I read this much without reading the subject line and thought you were being really cheeky about a red-headed singer having a good soundstage.

LOL.....

I dunno, you'll have to ask Bob is Ginger was a keeper. Not my type.

Ha, just read his 2012 interview with Rolling Stone. Cranky old bastard he is.

Hey Fred,

How have things been with your pellet smoker? I finally bit the bullet and bought a Louisiana Grills CS-450 as a birthday present to myself. The fact it was on clearance for half price certainly helped my decision! Other than the seasoning/burn-off process, I have only had on outing with the unit, but I did load it up good. I did a beef outside round roast for beef dip sandwiches, a pork sirloin roast for Cubanos, and a few sweet potatoes. I must say the ease of use and very stable temperature control made this the easiest smoke I had ever experienced. This baby is going to get a lot of use!

Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew, can I be your friend?

I've been experimenting with chickens. I don't like the skin when reheating leftovers, but leaving it on makes the meat moist. So to get around this conundrum, I tried something different. I removed the skin, coated the bird with a spice rub, then covered it with butter soaked cheese cloth. Smoked the bird at 200 deg till the breast registered 155. Let it rest and temp rose to 160. Turned out great. Very moist, and the meat retained the smoke flavor, and the rub was nice and crisp. Day after reheat in the microwave was just as good too.

You never wanted to be my friend. I guess bigger really is better.

Still smoking away Andrew. I did a pork tenderloin two days ago. The smoker does a really nice job on grilled vegies as well.


Yup. I'm using mine at least twice a week. I've been posting results in the What Yummy Thing thread. I've posted a link there to a smoked lamb recipe that is stunningly good.

I much prefer grilling chicken on the smoker because of the precise temperature control. It also makes for a great outdoor oven on those hot summer nights you want pizza or meatloaf without heating up the whole house.

Does your unit have a second shelf? Very handy if you want to up the quantity (I do smoked salmon for family gatherings).

Looks like you have a decent option for grilling steaks and burgers. That is one thing my smoker does not do well.

You have truly gone to the dark side. Bob will be along shortly to help you with that.

I struggle with roast chicken on the smoker. I just can't get that crispy skin you get from an oven or rotisserie roast. I even tried starting the smoker on high and braising the skin at the start of the smoke. While it was a lot better, its was still more tough than crispy. I may give your cheese cloth method a try.

For chicken raise the temps. I smoke chicken at around 300 degree. It's not recommended going low and slow with poultry.

Rick. I've been doing my chicken at 350. At that temperature, you would think that it is the same as roasting in an oven, but its not.

No idea who or why it's recommended to not go low and slow Rick, but whenever I do, they come out a heck of a lot juicier that way. So I'll continue to NOT follow that recommendation.

What ever works. Smoking them hot works well too, you just need to pull them when needed.

I'm going to be smoking a small (~10 lb) turkey tomorrow for the first time. Everything I have read suggests smoking at 325-350 in order to get nice looking skin. If anyone has any recipes or suggestions, I'd love to hear them!
Happy Thanksgiving to all my fellow Canadians!

Andrew

I like doing turkeys at that temperature (usually aim for 325) partly because the skin is important and partly because low and slow adds more smoke flavour than I like in turkey (I find "smoked turkey" too smoky).

If you want a strong smoke flavour then IIRC most of the smoke flavour goes in before the meat heats up a lot, which would argue for starting at a lower temperature (and longer time) then raising to 325/350 part way through to get the crisper skin.

That said I'm using a charcoal grill (Weber Performer) and generally buy turkeys that are too big for the grill (the 17+ pound birds keep calling to me) and so end up spending more time worrying about not burning it and not using it to clean all the grunge off the lid. 10 pounds is a good weight... probably anything up to 12 I guess.

I had a WSM (Weber Smoky Mountain) which was great for turkey halves but when my brother-in-law's Brinkman rotted out I passed it to him since he is still the primary smoker in the family.