This site is important to Axiom. It presents an opportunity for those who have and love their Axiom speakers to discuss various audio topics with folks who have not yet decided to buy Axiom's wonderful audio products.

Over the years, a claque of opinionated, narrow minded people have made this site their own. They have established a permitted set of audio beliefs. Anyone who has posted about speaker wire, interconnects, power cords, tube amplifiers has been met with a chorus of jeers and catcalls. Whether or not they are correct in their opinions about cabling and tube amps, their hostile responses to people who posted differing opinions on these matters has succeeded in shutting down all open conversations. Clearly, there are many audio enthusiasts who believe cabling makes a difference to sound quality and those who believe that some tube amplifiers or preamps offer a special and desirable quality to music reproduction. Yet, anyone who presented a differing opinion was mocked.

So, the faithful have succeeded in chasing away all the heretics. They have shut down all interesting discussions about audio matters. This site is reduced to "What music did you listen to last night," and "Happy Birthday ..." Very sad.

The faithful who have chased away those who disagree have reduced this site to silence. This state of affairs is bad for Axiom. As you know, Axiom products are the target of internet snipers and trolls on other sites. This site could have been a forum where those who own and enjoy their Axioms could speak out for them. Instead, you who know who you are, those of you who know-it-all, and who brook no dissenting opinions from your beliefs as to what is settled audio science, have killed this site. You have not done Axiom any favors.

Shame on you.

Just thought I'd state the obvious.

How are you doing pmbuko?

Its ok 2X6 I had a bad day at the rock pile today too. But yeah, I hear ya. I tend to keep my opinion to myself rather than get flamed, and it was not always that way here. Cant talk vinyl since its garbage according to the authorities on here thankfully we have www.thevinylengine.com . Any criticism of Axiom creative or not is poo poo'd . It kinda feels like the whole HT thing is dying a slow and agonizing death. Maybe its just because its summer time and everyone is partaking in warm weather endeavor's. Sometimes I just feel like a kid that keeps getting new toys and gets bored with them in 5 minutes and wants another new toy . Good topic, but I suspect it will offend more than it will inspire.

Peace

Peace on you Socketman. Good days coming at the rock pile. Music helps.

Yup, vinyl helps. Try Dean Martin, Dreams with Dean. One of the best LPs I have.

I check this site a few times a week, and it is dead. Once in a while, I, or someone will post something about tubes, or cables, or Lysenko and global warming, and it will arouse the chorus of the faithful, and the mocking and insults start, the conversation ends, and the Axiom forums once again descend into silence.

I haven't been around in awhile as life is busy and I do have other hobbies such as brewing my own craft brew and enjoying my kids sports and other activities. Anyway, I used to frequent this site nightly for years and years, trying to help those asking various types of questions on Audio/Video topics. I still love my Axioms and my family and kids now older frequently have lots of friends over for movie night, pool, and fire around the pit.

I would call myself an Axiom faithful, and hopefully I am not one you call a heretic bully or one who mocks those who ask questions.

However, since I am the one that started the thread "What are you listening to tonight" which you mocked, and for the fact I'm in 3rd place for total posts behind Ken and Peter, which really means nothing to me other than I've spent a lot of time trying to help people, you seem to throwing me in your soup bowl of bullshit.

Sir Quack, you are aces in my book. I was not talking about you for sure.

I have to admit, this cracked me up because it's true. I visit the site about once every two to three weeks to catch up and the "What music" and "Happy Birthday" threads are definitely the ones with the most action.

Certainly has changed a lot since I first got my speakers in 2009/10.

Damn, it must have been me. I come here multiple times a day looking for something to talk about, and the best I've got was a Happy Birthday and my call out for what to look for at CEDIA (in an futile attempt to be helpful). Dang it. I must be the one!

By the way, has anyone else noticed that Axiom posted a TON of new videos in the last 2 days on YouTube? Maybe I should start a post about that.

Funny. Statistically, 2X6, I've noticed that the site slowed down around the same time you started frequenting again.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective, isn't it?

Get off your high horse. You have your opinions, others have theirs. If you want to tout Chevy on a forum that's frequented with Ford aficionados, don't blame the others when your opinions weren't loved.

Yet YOU continue to bring up the friction. Many who have come around in the last couple of years don't even know what you're talking about. And the ones that you had disagreements with don't even come around anymore. You're mumbling to yourself.

As Randy said, people are busy. FaceBook became much more popular over the years. Families and responsibilities grew for many.

Really, it's NOT all about you or your vendetta. You had your opinion on things, others disagreed. Get over it all ready. Very old news.

+1 with Mark

I think it is important to keep in mind that Axiom doesn’t make fancy speaker wire, interconnects, power cords, or tube amplifiers and this is above all an audio products manufacturer's site. Having said that, perhaps we could persuade Ian to create a specific forum for people to post their thoughts and beliefs on these topics. Then at least the rest of us would know exactly where to go whenever we need a really good laugh!

A claque of flaks! There is still a spark of life in this website. KILL IT! MUST TO DIE!! Rouse yourselves to assure we hear nothing more than Happy Birthday fellow claquer! You've made this site your own and you have silenced it.

Congratulations.

Yes, Cohesion, Axiom makes fine speakers but no interconnects or tube amps. Yet, there were those who reported that some Axiom speakers sound really wonderful with tube amplification, or that a variety of speaker wire seems to make the music from Axiom speakers sound even better.

Yes, this could have been a site where a thousand flowers were permitted to bloom. This would have been good for Axiom. Maybe more people would have bought M3s or M2s to try with an inexpensive tube amp in search of the music magic.

Instead, we have a dark, empty and silent site where the faithful lie in wait for a non-conforming audio opinion and then ... chase it away.

Or maybe... just maybe some of the people have bought their speakers and amps and are happily sitting at home enjoying the music as there is no need to upgrade or talk about their experience.

They JFDI

Yes, silence is golden for a website.

A few weeks ago I read an article(I believe it was S&V)sadly, that according to sales figures in recent years, mid-high end audio in the U.S. was dying a gradual death so this lack of excitement across the board about the subject seems to be happening all over and I am sure that it can't help but be showing up in Axiom sales figures. Since, upon her retirement, Axiom seems to have never replaced Noreen, it looks like they are operating with a more streamlined staff as well.

My upgrading pretty much was completed a couple of years ago so at this stage of the game anyway, there doesn't seem to be much need for me to go any further. Practically speaking, as a Canadian with oil prices in the dumper and the Canadian dollar having slipped, prices for us Canucks have increased dramatically in the last couple of years so when it comes to making any changes and or meaningful upgrades that situation doesn't help either.

Perhaps Ian would like to chime in here to give us all his professional "insiders opinion" on the current state of the industry and Axiom, it would be interesting.

I used to post a lot here, but my Axiom message board time essentially got replaced with Facebook and iPhone games like Simpsons: Tapped Out and now Pokemon Go.

When I joined in 2006, this web site was my social media in toto. I joined Facebook in 2008 and the transition began. The people that I used to group PM with here have formed a private Facebook page that serves the same purpose. The Facebook app makes it so easy.

I have had the same thoughts on the decline of the message boards. It is sad, because the boards have introduced me to fabulous new friends. The 30th anniversary meet-up at Axiom HQ in 2010 was one of the best weekends of my life, and that's no hyperbole. Meeting so many people I'd talked to online was a real hoot. Lasting friendships were made.

The 35th anniversary meet-up, by contrast, I did not attend. I admit to a kind of "been there done that" mentality and realize that it cost me a chance to meet some of the newer guys that have frequented the boards.

So, nothing sinister about it - I swear that our secret cabal has not had this on our agenda. Yes, I admit to the existence of the cabal - it's just that we don't discuss cables and vinyl at our meetings - just beer and bacon. Have a good one, everybody.

LIKE

Actually it does appear that the mere hint of a discussion of tube amps and esoteric wire has brought on a good trail of posts! Perhaps we'll yet see a flame war erupt! Would that make you happy 2x6?

I guess not. Seriously though, do you want to hear a discussion about how Axiom or some other speakers sound like with tube amps and esoteric wire? Is that the only thing that would get you more interested in participating in this forum?

Activity is created by people asking questions. There is no meaningful discussion without some content with meat to it. I think most of the folks here are happy with their setups, or cant afford to upgrade right now. I'm in the latter camp.

I'd love to read about your new speakers once they are set up. Why don't you start a thread when you can.

BTW, If I am in the "shut it down for going against" camp. I am completely indifferent about it. Science is the basis for Axiom's speaker creations. I think there is room for both camps here. We can share the fire. Just our marshmallows will taste better.

Share the fire!

Yezzuh!

Big boxes arrived (again - first time came trashed). Mark is coming this Sunday to set them up. Pretty long wait for an insane impulse purchase, but, I'm pretty excited.

I am interested to hear you impressions on your new speakers, but don't be auditioning them with da viynls or dem funky tubes.

Dem funky freaky tubes. No sir.

Setting the EP2.8s up for triamping. I have 2 monoblocks (EP100.2SE)


2 mystery monoblocks
1 x 2 channel Odyssey Khartago

Some of their DSPs.

The EP2.8s are 99db efficient. Should be interesting.

I was thinking about using the Antique Sound Labs MG S1 15dt (5 watts per channel SET) for the mids, but I decided to leave it in its current 2 channel system because it sounds so wonderful.

I get the impression that the home theater and audio markets die every summer, when the outside world beckons... and then they come back to life once the snow starts to fall. I might make it up to the loft (where the HT is) twice in a summer, vs 2-3 times a week in the winter.

That said, I do remember that 10 years ago it seemed that the "affordable state of the art" became outdated a lot more quickly, at least for players and projectors. Progress still seems to be just as rapid, but it feels like we are reaching a point of diminishing returns in the sense that there isn't the obvious "OMG how can I live without that ?" sense that we got going from a CRT to a 720p or 1080p display/projector.

I am still running a Sanyo 720p projector and don't feel like I'm missing out on a lot, although I should upgrade to 1080p if only to avoid downscaling from BluRay.

But hey, winter is coming, I'll be back indoors...

...and down in the basement a record cleaning machine and 500+ LPs are waiting for me

Me to John, my Z2 is still going strong, I have replaced the bulb once a few years back..

Sorry, didn't mean to stir the pot. I was just sitting around the other night after a few "high gravity" home brews and thought it had been awhile since I checked out Axiom's boards. I will try to come around more often so I can pass up Ken and Peter, lol

While I haven't posted for a while, I still lurk here a couple of times each day.

Seems like I have all 4 of my Axiom systems 'tuned up' perfectly with no more tweaking required - therefore no drama here & really nothing for me to talk about. I'm not in the market for anything at the moment - just enjoying the outstanding systems I already have.

I'm of the opinion that some people are more susceptible to 'placebo effect' than others. That is just fine if that is what makes them happy & I would not castigate them for it. I personally do not hear a difference between cables & my Tube Amp sounds more like my SS Receiver than it should, I suppose.

Perhaps it is because of my increasing age as I'm now a senior, where I've 'been there & done that'. Arguing incessantly over subjects like 'comb filtering' in a horizontal CC Speaker is just does not grab my interest much anymore.

Looking at other AV sites that I peruse daily, there seems to be an overall drop in posting traffic. Perhaps it is the younger generations that are not as much into this pastime as I was. The convenience of music from a portable type device with ear buds seems to suffice. Furthermore, there are so many other methods of posting on social media (that I don't & will never partake in), the amount of traffic is just being diluted.

Back to lurking, so I'm still watching, ha!...

TAM

I did rearrange the treatments in the living room again but hadn't had time to post an update because I was still trying to understand what I had learned.



In principle I didn't change much -- put back the nearer of the two 4" Safe & Sound panels and added a second rigid panel on the windows behind the speakers - but the surprise came once I figured out what I should be listening for when fine-tuning the treatments. Once you get the big things like bass trapping out of the way, the improvements come more in areas like imaging.

Making the most recent set of changes gave me a soundstage that was very evenly spread between and beyond the speakers (one of those "you know it when you hear it" things) but the biggest surprise was that the spatial effect from phasing (I was listening to Heart's Mistral Wind and the first Tubular Bells album) went from minimal to "room filling". In hindsight I'm surprised that I haven't heard anything like that on "demo disks".

That said, more of my time (when I wasn't working, which was about 99% of it) went into things like this:



The 4x8 plywood sheet was fastened to the horizontal 2x4's to make a target frame 200 yards from the top of the hill in my back yard (I live out in the sticks). A one pound reactive target (same idea as Tannerite but made in Canada) was perched on the top of the plywood leaning against the tree, and I was trying out a new rifle (Tikka T3 Lite in .260 Rem) after sighting it in at 100 yards.

First shot, yay. The explosion doesn't look like much with naked eye at 200 yards, but through a 10x scope it fills the field of view and you get an orange-red fireball that you don't see otherwise.

Still trying to make time for the annual boomershoot matches: http://www.boomershoot.org/

And yes, since taking the picture I have cut down the brush behind the target board so I can be sure nobody is standing in it. The firing position is actually up a hill so I'm shooting down into the ground (in fact the ground slopes up past 200 yards), and the brush only extends back about 10 feet so visibility behind the target is much better than it appears from this picture, but don't want to take any chances.

Anyways, I suspect I'm fairly representative of forum members - largely absent during the nice weather but back once the weather turns bleak. What the staff at the skeet club call "a foul weather friend".

Awesome. Brewing good beer seems like an absolute black art to me.

I think it was bridgeman , he is always blowing shit up .

Nice work Bridgeman. Bang.

I think room treatments can be very effective. Though, it seems to me, that it is a very hit and miss affair.

Seems to me that DSP is the way to go. The only objective way to even out the room frequency response is by using mikes and DSP(s), I think.

Mark Schifter is coming out from Colorado tomorrow to set up the Emerald Physics rig in my living room. He'll be using 2 DSP units (I think), and enough amps to triamp the EP2.8s. They are supposed to be pretty flat down to 20Hz, but I have an Axiom EP500 in my other 2 channel system that will be available to augment the bass, but I don't think it will be necessary.

Bridgeman, are those 2 couch cushions against the window?

Anyway, I will report back with my impressions on the new 2 channel system really soon.

Well I agree RC is a great tool, it works better in with a treated room , which requires a lot less correction. All rooms need a certain amount of absorptive and diffuse objects . Radical cuts and boosts by the RC can be harmful and cause their own problems.

I believe in summer, the traffic here always slows down. The Cad$ has crapped out for a while now and has put this guy's upgraditis on hold for now so I don't really have too much in the way of questions or comments on the forums.
Generally speaking, I believe there is a great deal of respect here for various brands and differing beliefs. Some people simply choose to be offended.

I agree 100%. Audyssey in my room when I just had basic acoustical treatments just on the front wall was good, when I put treatments on my side walls and rear walls, it was a lot better. Now with Anthem ARC it is utterly amazing.

The less that the room correction software has to do to "correct" your room, the better it will sound, and not just at the MLP, but across more/all seats.

Question though... I understand that room correction software can help with frequency response and potentially reduce requirement for things like bass trapping and blowing out one of Mark's living room walls to make it non-square, but is it sufficiently sophisticated these days to deal with things like overly reflective rooms ?

Not asking about whether it is possible to model & cancel reflected energy (I know that can be done) but aren't you going to need more than two speakers to do that well enough to fix things at a specific listening position ?

Or is the idea that "you can fix anything at the point where the mic was placed (hopefully the listening position) even if you can't fix it everywhere" ?

Reason I'm asking is that most of the treatment-tweaking I do is to fix/improve more nuanced things than frequency response. I guess imaging/soundstage is the closest term I can think of... not just "are sounds placed correctly" but "does the position seem sufficiently precise", "does one side of the soundstage seem more clear than the other" etc...

These things bother me more than frequency response, which may be odd or may be normal, not sure


Maybe the spiders scared the registered users away ? Some people are funny about spiders, especially after a lifetime of Spiderman comics & movies.

As both Nick and I have said the more you do before RC the better the end result. I use Dirac Live and you can run it for a single seating situation such as for a 2 channel setup or for a movie theater situation. My Emotiva pre/pro only stores one calibration which is disappointing. Emotiva will be adding Dirac Unison soon to the XMC-1 as well. As I have never used Anthems software I don't know how it works but Dirac does a lot more than just frequency response. Honestly a lot of what it does is outside my expertise but I do like the results. If you really want to get down and dirty I feel you need to start with something like REW (Room EQ Wizard) and a good calibrated mike and get the room as good as you possible can then run your RC. I did a lot of this when I lived in the rental house I was in but I have recently purchased a house and there are so many other things that need my attention I have not gotten around to anything HT except setting things in place. Winter is coming so I am sure my attention will turn to indoor activities soon enough. Oh an DAMN owning a house is XPENSIVE. LOL

If you can treat the negative effects of your room pre Eq. calibration, I.e. big reflective windows or large reverb spots. any software should make a drastic improvement over the negative feed back you've already prevented.

I was always under the impression myself, that the purpose of these forums was for us owners to share our setups and compare. Regardless of choice of medium. Whether C.D., Cassette, Blueray, D.V.D. Lps. Tube. Solid state or whatever. With the hopes of helping each other and at least comparing our findings and discussing our opinions. As we are all entitled to our own opinions.

To which I have learned a lot from this site in my few years of participation. How to make my own panels and treat my room proper setup and a whole lot more. This forum has all kinds of different info scientific or not.

Thank you to all that have helped along my journey

Curse you Facebook!

I'll get you next time...

I miss the bacon posts. Feel free to come here and share share the cabal's plan for world bacon domination any time. Still don't much like beer.

I do wish this site had more traffic, but it appears that the older members have lagely moved on and there are not many coming in to take their place.

Keep posting Nick.

I was wondering about traffic on the big AV sites. I think that the post 2008 reality is that there is less disposable income around for things like audio.

The younger generation in my house has as much of a passion for music as I, but does not care so much about fidelity. They are also busy hanging out with the rest of their generation trying out new micro breweries and such. Life goes on.

Yeah... it's hard to develop a taste for fidelity when most of your listening experience involves ear buds. We thought AM radio was bad...

I wonder how much of this is related to affordability of housing and kids staying at home much longer. I had moved out by the time I was 16 (back then a part-time job on weekends was enough to cover rent/food, summer job paid for tuition) and between the five of us renting a house we had a pretty impressive sound system (including a floating concrete pad for the turntable), 2000+ LPs with surprisingly little duplication, and nobody telling us to "turn it down".

The kids I know who are as much into music and sound as our generation seem to be the ones whose parents built an HT, didn't have time to use it, and essentially turned it over to their kids as the local hangout. "At least I know where they are" was the common sentiment...


OK, so not a total loss then

Could also be that the HT industry in general was moving by leaps and bounds years ago compared to today, and many of the people jumped into it at that time and won't be upgrading for a little while.

Yep, that's certainly part of it.

Anyone who bought a good system 10 years ago is probably still very happy with it today; I know I am.

I had planned to upgrade my projector once the bulb burned out in a few years, but it happened (or so I thought) earlier than expected so I bought a replacement bulb instead. Turned out to be a thermal cutoff tripped by overheating after a power outage... took the projector apart, reset the switch, everything fine and now I have two bulbs.

I may be watching BluRays at 720p until I'm well into my 60s

I haven't really been bit by the upgrade bug in quite a few years. I sub that provides a more visceral feel during action scenes is about the only possible upgrade I have considered.

I have no desire for more than the 5.1 channels I currently have, and there will have to be a good amount of content at 4K before I'm interested in upgrading my TiVo and display.

Yes and no. Atmos and laser projection are leaps and bounds ahead of what most have today. Its just that 'good enough' is pretty damned good these days.

Some things, like 4K don't make much of a difference until you go to quite a large screen, much larger than most people currently have. A quick search shows that most of the world has screens between 40 and 49". The current sweet spot for screen size in the US is 60 to 65".

You need to sit between 5 and 7 feet from your screen to see the difference between 1080p and a higher resolution.

Atmos sounds way cool, but most people, even many of those in the audiopile crowd will have neither the room or the $ to invest to make it work in their environment.

HDR is the only 'new' tech out there that I think will benefit just about everyone.

Those leaps and bound of improvement are at too high a price point and beyond what most people care about.

Maybe someday when we can actually get true 4K streaming... Heck, most stuff is not even 1080 yet.

What screen size are you projecting onto? Going from 1080p on a 55" screen to the same on a 115" projection screen was a huge step up for me, particularly given that it cost no more than buying a 65" TV in 2014. A lot of that was stepping up to a screen size where I saw the full benefit of 1080p.

Mostly 93", occasionally 104" - 48x96 sheet of Formica in whatever colour was being recommended a decade or so ago. A 16:9 image only covers about 80" wide (93" diagonal) and zoomed-in 2.35:1 only covers about 41" tall (104").

I haven't gotten around to trimming and framing it because I haven't decided whether I'm likely to keep zooming in the 2.35 movies to use full width (poor man's constant area projection) or whether I'm more likely to get lazy and run everything with the 80" width, getting a bit more brightness in exchange for a bit less size.

Every summer (when it stays light long enough to interfere with movie watching) I figure I'll trim it to 80" wide and be done, but then winter comes around, it gets dark at 4pm, and so even the zoomed-in 2.35's are sufficiently bright.

I guess a new projector could give me more brightness *and* 1080p. I see what you did there

You're welcome.

By the way, as long as you are upgrading the projector, you might as well make that screen a little bigger so you can take advantage of 4K.