has anyone here ever herd the rocket series by them or x series with the open baffles . very nice looking speakers with real wood veners at very decent prices , just wondering how they sound againt m80's ?

I have heard the Rocket RS850s (maybe RS1000s?) and their accompanying center, etc. They are very nice speakers (indeed quite pretty), but I prefer the M80s. Also remember that AV123 (at least to my knowledge) does not have free shipping, which adds to the cost of 120-200lbs of speakers significantly.

where are they made ,do they make everything themselves.

does axiom make all parts in house or do they source out parts?

The Rockets are made entirely in China (afaik). Axiom's drivers are assembled in China (designed in Canada) at an Axiom owned plant (from what I've heard), and assembled in Canada.

I think they (AV123) moved their facility to Cali, Colombia, South America.

Ah, I did not remember that, Rick, but that sounds familiar.

that would explain the price increase axiom had . i was under the impression that they were entierly made in house ( canada ) which made me wonder why they went up in price so much seeing how other companys (paradigm) did not !

Paradigm may attach their prices to the Canadian dollar; Axiom pegs theirs to the US$. I don't know if that's the case or not, but that's a possible explanation.

The increase in price was due to the fluctuation in the Canadian dollar against the U.S. green back.

i think it has more to due with the fact that paradigm makes everything in house in canada

I tend to take Axiom's word on the cause of their price changes. They're pretty up front about it and it does change roughly based on the Canadian/US $.

Look here.

true but ill tell ya i wasnt happy to see them going up over 20 percent before i could purchase , that also puts axiom biting at the ankles of many other companies , had to hurt them as it has made me think twice and look at other options when before i was set on axioms

Possibly to some extent, but unless they are growing their own trees for the wood, mining their own copper for the wires, etc., they are definitely susceptible to global currency fluctuations. It could be they had more margin in their speakers to begin with and so they could take the cut in profits without raising prices.

Either way, you make a good point, if Axiom is raising prices and their competitors aren't, they have to justify that value through continued superiority of their products. I still feel they are very fairly priced, but I imagine you feel differently if the price goes up during your purchasing process. I feel your pain there.

Jason

The Rocket line, ELT line, Rosewood MFW-15 subwoofers, ULW subwoofers, and rosewood LS6s are manufactured in factories in China. The x line of speakers, MFW-15 subwoofers in finishes other than rosewood, and LS6 speakers in finishes other than rosewood are manufactured in the Cali, Colombia factory.

Brandon, whatever you do don’t pay MSRP for speakers from AV123. A standard practice of theirs is to negotiate a lower price from their manufacture for a set bulk order for a specific amount. They pass the savings on to purchasers by having a sale until they get enough sales to fill the order. In a way they are acting as a buyers club on their customers behalf except that they are selling there own products. There's absolutely nothing fishy about this so don’t let it put you off just be aware that if you miss one AV123 sale another will come along shortly.



AV123 only made some speakers mainly their some of their new subwoofers in Cali and most of that business has been move to China due to quality control and other problems at their Cali facility. The rockets are made entirely in China and AFAIK have never had undue quality control issues.

Brandon I had also read that Axiom made it’s own drivers and even veneers. But this info is old and may have changed since 2001:

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/axiom_millenniam80ti.htm

Ken,

It's the Chinese government that owns pretty much everything, in China. It is highly unlikely Axiom owns anything there.


Larry

20% ?

Axiom is still one of the best bang for the buck Audiophile speakers out there. Performance wise they rival speakers costing hundreds to thousands more.

There ya go, Jack would know.

In addition to increasing costs.....I think Axiom is just bringing their products in line with the competition, for the most part....(except for the extra "bump" because of all the reviewers saying things like: "these speakers sound like others costing twice as much!" etc.)

LT61. This is not your father's China. There is considerable foreign investment in China now.

Brandon. There are measurements of the Strata Mini on soundstagenetwork.com. The M80s measure flater and with less distortion. I suspect that translates to a more neutral, cleaner sound, though the Strata Minis do get good reviews.

Theoretically.

LT61. China still pegs their currency to the US$. If the US$ goes up 20% compared to the C$ their cost of goods coming out of china goes up corespondingly.

In the end, we have no clue as to the internal workings of Axiom, though it is fun to speculate.

Brandon, do you live in Ontario? if you do, you may want to pick up your speakers yourself to save on shipping (8% credit) as I am considering. Also you can save an additional 10% from the Factory Outlet, and Axiom picks up the tab on GST (5%). I've been researching speakers for a good 6-7 weeks now and Axiom appears to have very little company in their price range/quality. You will hear many comparisons to speakers costing considerably more. For the record, I too, was a little peaved about the Cdn price increase....happened literally days before I bought my big screen and started looking at sound systems.

I have read and heard, Paradigm has their cabinets made in China then shipped to Canada for final assembly, just a little different than Axiom's philosophy. Last I saw Paradigm is due for a price increase this coming year, where as Axiom lets their prices fluctuate more readily with the dollar fluctuations, as they have no dealers involved so there is no stock pre-bought with a higher/lower dollar.

Open baffle speakers like the x-statik have a very different soundstage than Rockets or M80s.

I have owned M60s, and still have M80s and x-statiks.

I really like the sound of the 80s. I love the soundstage of the x-statiks.

Adrian, are you saying that if I drive out to Dwight and pick up the speakers I will pay 8% less than what is on the web site ? My understanding was that shipping was already built in the price and therefore, was the same weather you had them shipped or picked them up.. I hope I am wrong because if I can save 8%, I will do the trip..which from Ottawa is about 5 hours one way..and while I'm there I would obviously tour the factory etc..

As far as I know, Adrian is correct.

Unless Axiom has changed it's policy (I don't think they have) you will save 8% if you pick them up yourself. It's only fair, as both parties save the cost of shipping, and yes, you should tour the facility and meet the folks at Axiom...I did, in the fall, very nice, knowledgeable staff.

The 8% savings is still in effect as far as I know as well. My nephew is in Woodbridge and is planning on making the trip up when goes to his parent's place in Orillia, just to save even more.

Of course if you are unpleasant in the forums and the Axiom folks notice then there is a 7% ADDITIONAL charge for picking up at the factory

An 8% discount and a factory tour? A no brainer. Enjoy the trip!

Stephane, as has been indicated, that's the point: the regular price has the shipping cost built into it, as you say, but the result of not requiring a shipping cost for a factory pick-up is that a discount is granted.

well i definitly have not given up on axioms , their product looks great and i think the forums speak for themselves in the sound , quality , costumer serive etc. which is very pleasing to say the least . All im saying is that sure axioms sound as good as much more expensive speakers but so do alot of companies that untill reacently were more expensive . since the hike in price those other companies are now at the same price . i think driving to axiom and hearing them there is the only real way to know .

I have found in my own experience that a company message board directly reflects the company and the product being sold and how the company goes about their business. Saying all that I do not think you can go wrong with Axiom, not only are their products fantastic but I do not think you can get better customer service either (the axiom community is one of the best as well for seeking solid no nonsense advice without all the snakeoil rubbish you read on a lot of other forums)...my cup of tea

i would definitly agree with u this forum is great once i drive down and hear them i will know for sure at this point the competiton is paradigm monitor 9 which is about $900 so i will be comparing them to the m60 , i also want to hear the m80 because it is also with in reach . Another great smaller speaker i have herd in my travels is the energy rc mini lcr . its a serious preformer for $180

Well, I don't know about the current Monitor 9s, but the old (first/second generation?) Monitor 9s were no match for M22s except in the bass department, and no match for the M50s and up in any other department. I understand they've made a number of improvements, but Axioms are more often compared to the Paradigm Studio series--M80s to the Studio 100s, for example, M22s to the Studio 20s.

When I listened to the last version of the Monitor 7 I was not impressed. The were a LOT less detailed than anything Axiom offers. The M3-M80 has a lot more in common with the Studio series than the Monitor Series.

The newest Monitors are supposed to be improved though. If you get a chance Brandon, listen to both the Monitors and Studios.

Fredk, have you heard the newest Paradigm Monitor 11s ? I heard them at my local hifi in a 5.1 (cc390 centre-adp390 surrounds). I've heard from several people that M80s/60s are closer to the Pdigm Studios, if that's the case, I'm impressed, as I thought the 11s sounded very good. Also listened to some Totems, I know, different price range, but amazing sound from relatively small 2-way speakers. Very detailed when music listening.

11s are supposed to be quite good; I think thre are reviews around here comparing them positively to M80s.

Adrian, if you're looking for very detailed, you're certainly looking at the right speakers. You shold definitely audition some Axioms as soon as you can.

Thanks, kcarl, I'm always interested in other peoples input, good or bad. I'm wondering too, if anyone has done any A/B comparo's between Axiom's and Monitor Audio's Silver series. (M60/80 vs RS6/RS8). British speakers generally cost a bit of a premium in Ontario, however, as well as being a liitle harder to find. I will probably head back up to Dwight at some point to hear the M60/80s. Wish it was summer, sheesh, I'd take my fish'n rods with me!

If you can find an audition for the Monitor Audio speakers, do it, they are a quality product. They make excellent speakers. You can also order the Axioms and audition them in your home for 30 days. You can then take notes on your listening sessions with the Axioms and your other auditions and then compare your notes. Out of the speakers you mentioned I would audition the Axioms and the Monitor audio's. You can also go to a local best buy or any other readily available electronics store in which you can listen to a wide range of speakers from the bad to very good and see how your notes compare to any other speakers you have listened to. You never know you may even find something you like there.

From what I've read here (quite awhile ago), the MA Silvers and the Axioms are roughly equivalent in sound.

Didn't Bigwill have the MAs and M60s?

I think Chess did; not sure if it was Bigwill who also did.

Adrian. After what I heard with the Moitor 7 vs. Studio, I gave up on the line. At the time, the M60 was the same price as the Studio 7 so I figured if the M60s sounded anything like the Studio 60 the decision would be easy (which it was).

I believe Jason (jakewash) did a comparison of the Monitor 11 and M80.

I also listened to the Totems and they do sound good.

that would be great is axiom were more comparible to the studio line from paradigm but i seriously doubt it . there is a huge difference between the studio and monitor line , but the monitor sounds really really good , the studio or signature are just ridiculous . i really got to hear some axioms if you guys are calling a head to head with studios , has anyone ever done a a,b between them

Dude, just audition some Axioms already...

Chess wrote up a nice comparison a while back and mentioned the MA Silvers were very similar to the Axiom sound. However, not too long ago he mentioned he rethought his original findings about the MA Silvers, but didn't follow up with specifics.

I did extensive listening to Monitor Audio speakers back in the day. I really liked the S6. It seemed more balanced than the S8--it felt like the extra driver muddied up the sound ever so slightly.

that would be easy if they were sold in store (i know the price would go up ) but just makes it difficult

There's a lot of people willing to give auditions. Where are you located?

Brandon_ G Axiom has a 30 day trial period to audition the speakers in your own home as well. If you feel you find something better you can ship them back to axiom. It is a very painless process. The only downfall is you might have to pay the return shipping. If it would get to that point you could probably work something out with customer support.

Read what this guy says about his M80s compared to his Paradigm Sigs. This is from a guy who obviously has the money to spend on very expensive speakers.

If you are the kind of guy that likes hard evidence, then go to this site and compare the anechoic measurements of the M80V2 to the Studio 100V3. Take the time to read the linked explanations for each measurement.

It looks like Bigwill had the MA S8. I thought he had some for of MAs.

Great links guys, thanks. Great info from soundstage there Fred. I'll spend some time checking out those graphs on some of the other speakers too. I'll probably be out next week to audition some MAs then hopefully get back up to Dwight and hear the M80s soon (about 3 hrs North of me). Looks like you can't go wrong with either of these speakers, but I know already that the MAs are in a higher $$ range, about 20-25% more here.

Mojo and I A/B'd Monitor 11s to M80s and the M80s have more low end and much better detail, for the same price as the Monitor 11's the M80s are a better speaker with similar sonic quality, forward. We could hear string reverberations on the M80s whereas the Monitors could not reveal the same sound, the Studio 100s can do this, but you have to pay quite a bit more to get Studio 100's. I did find the Studio 100 to be a little smoother in the top end when played loud compared to the M80s, are they $1000 smoother, not to me.

Oh, I had thought the Monitor 11s did a little better in that comparison than that!

If I had not heard the M80s previous to the Monitor 11's I would have thought we had found the best speaker for the price, fortunately that was not the case. The 11's are a very good speaker, just not upto the M80s sound quality.

Jay, it appears to me that Axioms probably fit somewhere between Pdigm Monitor and Studio series. You must be paying a premium out west on the Pdigm Monitors though...I can get 11s for $999.00 (Cdn obviously) at the moment. Studio 100s around $2G.

The last time I looked the 11's were the same price as the M80s about $1300, the 100s were $2400. If you can get the 100s for $2000 I would get them, but don't forget you can get the M80's from the Factory outlet for a mere $1300, this is where the price/performance really hits home.

I think you meant $1200 via the outlet, and yes, a great deal at that price.

Hey Jay, that's the problem, I know $2G is a great price, its adding the centre and surrounds too....BTW have you seen the size of Paradigms centre channel, like a tower on it's side---between 60-70 lbs, depending Monitor or Studio. Anyway, pricewise, I know Axioms are hard to beat....I've kinda been dragging my feet a little regarding speakers thinking maybe Axiom might throw in a new promo going into '09!!!

I heard bigwill's MA's. My assessment was consistent with his; they sounded somewhat better than the M60's (a bit tighter and smoother at high volumes, perhaps?). However, they cost fully twice as much at that time.

I think Axiom speakers remain a great value.

Axiom doesn’t really operate that way. Since they make their own speakers their costs are more constant and can offer a consistently low MSRP and don’t need to list a really high MSRP and then constantly run sales on preorders to lock in a set price from their manufactures in order to get a good price to their customers. If they do offer something it won’t be huge maybe something like this:


http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=235367&fpart=1

Grunt, I saw that $100/500 deal a couple of weeks ago. I wonder if they will do something like that again? this would be a good one...limited time upgrade to wood veneer N/C. Well, here's hoping anyways.

They did run a real wood veneer upgrade for some time a while back I just can’t remember the details. So something along those lines is a possibility.

I believe the list price in Canada on MA RS8's is around $2G. A hifi in Toronto has 'B' stock (show demos) for $850 rosenut, up to $1200-1300 for walnut ect (Cdn $). For the record, I haven't seen them yet, and they are demos. Even so, matching surrounds in the Monitor silver line run near $1000.00 Cn which are probably, at best, as good as but not better than QS8s from what I have read. Centre Channel is rather $$ too. Now if this dealer had all of these in 'B' stock, the price would probably be comparable to Axioms.

No, I meant $1300, remember he/we is/are in Canada, we get to pay more for something made up here! Lucky us.

My bad Jay!

Thats a very good price on the Studios Adrian. I thought they V4s were 2400 and the V5 bumped up 15-20%.

BTW, Fred, I was surprised when comparing the charts of both the Studio 100s and the M80s from the NRCC (thanks for the link). M80s are impedence rated at 4ohms, the Studio 100s at 8ohms....yet between 100 and 200 hz the Paradigms are clearly dropping down much lower than the Axioms (almost 2ohms according to chart). Are people making too big a deal out of the impedence ratings ? I mean, if Paradigm came out and said, you need a 4ohm receiver to run the 100's then I guess there would be a lot of people wondering if there receiver is sufficient or not. But, as it is, they are rated at 8ohms and nobody questions this. These charts seem to prove the efficiency of the M80s (4ohm rating) vs the Studio 100s (8 ohm rating), and Paradigms are known to be 'easy to drive' in regards to amps.

There is a huge number of people over at the AVS forum most of whom have no experience with Axiom M80 speakers so they just repeat what they remember hearing from others. Spend enough time there and you will find the following “memes” about Axiom speakers.

1. Axioms are “bright.”
2. M80s are 4 ohm and hard to drive.
3. QS8s get a lot of good comments.

Most of these comments are prefaced with something like “I haven’t heard them but…” your best off sticking to professional reviews and hard data unless your just asking people if particular brands sound similar. One exception are people like jakewash who populate several forums and consistently recommend a variety of brands demonstrating that they are above the fanboyism of many who jump into threads recommending or attacking particular speakers.

Every forum and even sub-forum in the larger ones takes on it’s own character and develops it’s own truisms. This groupthink is as clear as night and day in some places even here about certain issues.

Also note that negative comments will almost always outweigh the positive ones. Just read about the AV123 subwoofer problems. You’d think 50% or so just up and failed by reading the posts, and that’s even taking into account the incredible spin machine AV123 has over there. But that’s because unhappy people are much more likely to post their complaints than happy ones posting praises.

I never remember them doing that, there's a big price difference. What they have done is have the Free upgrade to High Gloss Cherry or Burled Walnut.

Hrrmpf! Human nature!!

At the risk of giving Jason a big head, I have to agree with you Dean. He is willing to go 'upstream' when its warranted. Kinda reminds me of poster a friend of mine had showing a large herd of white sheep walking over a cliff. In the middle of them was a black sheep going the other way. " 'Scuse me... Pardon Me..."

That’s what it was. Thanks for the correction.


Boy aren’t we a couple of suck-ups.

Interesting... I had a similar poster but all the sheep were white, the odd sheep out was speaking French (Excusez-moi), and it was moving in the same direction as the rest of the herd just trying to get there before everyone else.

Must have been a British poster

Oh yeah, that’s gonna leave a mark!

Don't worry. Marks run away crying very quickly these days.

Well said.
I think someone else inferred that same sentiment here, in another thread......but, in a far less eloquent manner.

Consider the fact the M22 drop to 2Ohms and nobody has an issue with them!!

Seems to me, most people find fourms like this in search of answers. Either to cure a problem with a product or pick a product. If you bought already and are pleased as punch, you are less likely to search out a fourm to exclaim that. If you are upset with a purchase, you always want to vent that.

Adrian, yes, some people are making too big a deal out of the impedance ratings. The amplifiers don't know what the impedance of the speakers that they're connected to is, just that they have to supply a certain voltage and current at each moment in time. Some speakers rated at 4 ohms(e.g. the M80s)are easier to drive than some rated at 8 ohms because they're more sensitive and require less power and their impedance curve is relatively flat and doesn't drop below 4 ohms.

My view is that the excessive caution some amplifier and speaker manufacturers demonstrate in this area isn't helpful to the audio consumer.

The original starting review is here.
I did do an A/B test with the Tannoys, Axioms and MA GR10s as well but i cannot find the thread.
This search tool is really sucky compared to the old one.

I auditioned some of the speakers mentioned there, inc the Ref Con Energys, the Monitor RS6 and RS8 and the Mission M35's. This is why we all should hear speakers for ourselves....I had vertually the same opinion of the RC Energys, one of disappointment actually as they sounded rather 'mute' or muffled. The RS6s and RS8s are indeed a sweet speaker, nice detail, imaging and sharp but easy to listen to (detailed but not 'bright'). I had a very different opinion of the Missions, however...I felt they lacked detail, too bassy, probably easy to listen to for some because they seemed to lack so much higher up, sounded unatural to my ears. Anyway, we all hear things differently and have our own preferences, and yes, the Energy Veritas are nice too but not at $4g+.

Agree 100% with that. I also really like the Paradigm Studio 100s and Reference S6's and 8's, Focal 918's and 928's, Sonus Faber(forget models), but the cost I will stick with my M80s for many years.

I was heavily considering checking out the Rocket 850. They look very well made. I wasn't thrilled to hear about their sub problem and it stemming from their Chinese operations. The 850 is a very large and heavy speaker, Shipping both ways would cost a bit if it turned out you didb;t like them. Still, if I had a larger room I may have given them a try. I'm still a bit concerned with WAF.

I was on the verge of ordering a set of the 850's on their Black Friday deal, but I knew they wouldn't fit in the doghouse.

Brandon, per your original question:

I have listened to the M80s

I own a variety of Totem speakers and Onix Mini's plus, XLS in Ferrari Red, as well as their Ref series speakers. Overall, AV123 has nice speakers with extremely high quality finishes. I have had serious issues with both subs from them...given the cost of original shipping and shipping back I am not happy with my sub purchase. I just bought a EP350...delivered 20 minutes ago, I hope I am happy with it. Overall, customer service at AV123 is very good and so far I think Axiom is just as good.

If it was me, I would look at the grounded total cost including shipping, currency conversion and paying duty. Given this analysis, although I like AV123 stuff - especially the Minis, the cost is just too high (it cost me the same as Totem Forests)...I would have chosen a full Axiom system b/c i don't feel the higher price has been justified. Just my two cents but i think i have a enough gear to justify it.....

Too bad Axiom doesn't do a trade-in of competitors gear.

You could always sell your present gear on Canuckaudio mart or similar place and then buy some more Axiom gear.

MFW-15 sub is "supposed" to be a great sub. (when it works and doesn't hum) I hope the EP350 does the job you are expecting. I am also getting an EP350 so I await your review.

BoB/335

Did you place your order with Axiom yet? If you have, congratulations !!

That is exactly what took the MFW out of the running for me. Looking back that seems to have been a good decision.

The wait time is what kept me away from the MFW.