Thanks for the details, Alan. I'm going to give it a try, but now being the Gemini I am, I am selling myself on sticking with Denon. I don't believe I can blame it and I have become familiar with using its features and just am lazy about the learning curve with those other models you mentioned. I've read some reviews of the Sherwoods and NADs in particular, but I think I like the synergy with Axioms and Denon (to my ears, they sound great together) and it seems there is much value built into the denon with the many hdmi inputs and such. I guess a final question and maybe it should be another thread is:

Given the choice of a refurbished 3808ci, 4308 or 4310, which would y'all choose. I'm not citing prices I've seen because I'd like to know what you think based on feature set, etc. If it turns out the 3808 is just better and has better amps, then maybe I should stick with it. I have 7.1 speakers now and do not intend to mess with the height stuff the new receivers have. Again thanks for taking time to help and I hope others can enjoy/benefit from the dialogue!